propitiation by His blood, through faith

[Episkopos]

No, but had the same faith as the OT saints evidenced by his works and piety.

So then people of all religions...or non-religions...could have that same faith as the OT saints in your view?

 

[Dave L]

Then how can I , in good conscience look my unsaved friends and family in the eyes and tell them that "God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."? I DO understand that there will be few who take the narrow road and many who take the wide, is that because "they loved the darkness more than the light? Did they sear their own consciences? Or, did God not give them an option? Were they not also included in the "whomsoevers, all's and any's" And, yes, I also know that nobody can come to God without His calling, and I believe that would be the Holy Spirit. And, to mention the fruit of the Spirit...many unsaved exhibit these same qualities. There are just too many scriptures telling me that Jesus blood atones for the sin of the WORLD...not just a select few.
God Bless and keep you.

First, stick to the gospel. It sorts this all out. Don't "offer the gospel". That makes people trust in their faith instead of Christ. The disciples "preached" (announced) the gospel "My life is so much better now in Christ than before". And it's as simple as believing that I'm telling you the truth when I say; "whoever believes in Jesus has eternal life". Do you believe me? Congratulations, you have eternal life. Now if you truly believe, turn away from any sin you might know of, find a church to baptize you, and try to walk according to God's word. It's a new lifestyle...etc., etc....

 

[Dave L]

So then people of all religions...or non-religions...could have that same faith as the OT saints in your view?

What about infants and the impaired beyond the reach of the gospel? Or those in distant lands who never heard the gospel?

 

[Episkopos]

What about infants and the impaired beyond the reach of the gospel? Or those in distant lands who never heard the gospel?

You think they are evil. But Jesus says of such are the kingdom.

So then you have an entirely different Jesus. A very religious bigoted and pessimistic one.

 

[Dave L]

You think they are evil. But Jesus says of such are the kingdom.

So then you have an entirely different Jesus. A very religious bigoted and pessimistic one.

“And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 18:3)

BTW, why do babies die in the womb if the wages of sin is death and they are innocent. Is God unjust?

 

[Episkopos]

“And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 18:3)

BTW, why do babies die in the womb if the wages of sin is death and they are innocent. Is God unjust?

...and become as what little children? Unconverted children? You think the unconverted are evil. But you won't answer me because you look away in shame. You know you are wrong...but you can't let go of your religion.

 

[Dave L]

...and become as what little children? Unconverted children? You think the unconverted are evil. But you won't answer me because you look away in shame. You know you are wrong...but you can't let go of your religion.

Is God unjust punishing babies for Adam's sin?

“For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.” (1 Corinthians 15:22–23)

 

[Episkopos]

Is God unjust punishing babies for Adam's sin?

“For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.” (1 Corinthians 15:22–23)

dishonest... We are to be as children Jesus said...unconverted children? Are unconverted children evil??? You know you think so.

Answer that. Quit deflecting.

 

[Dave L]

dishonest... We are to be as children Jesus said...unconverted children? Are unconverted children evil??? You know you think so.

Answer that. Quit deflecting.

The wages of sin is death and babies die? Is God unjust?

 

[Episkopos]

The wages of sin is death and babies die? Is God unjust?

I knew you wouldn't answer. The Adamic nature is to hide their sin. Add religion to that and you get a monster.

God is a God of the living. Those babies aren't dead. They're with Him.

 

[Dave L]

I knew you wouldn't answer. The Adamic nature is to hide their sin. Add religion to that and you get a monster.

God is a God of the living. Those babies aren't dead. They're with Him.

On what basis?

 

[Nancy]

The wages of sin is death and babies die? Is God unjust?

John 9:41"to those who were offended at his teaching and asked if he thought they were blind-he said, "If you were blind, you would not have had sin; but since you say, 'We see,' your sin remains."
An infant, not to mention the mentally, does not have the natural capacity to see Gods will or even what sin is to God. So, I say babies, and certain others, by the awesome grace and mercy of God Almighty, are saved.

 

[Nancy]

John 9:41"to those who were offended at his teaching and asked if he thought they were blind-he said, "If you were blind, you would not have had sin; but since you say, 'We see,' your sin remains."
An infant, not to mention the mentally, does not have the natural capacity to see Gods will or even what sin is to God. So, I say babies, and certain others, by the awesome grace and mercy of God Almighty, are saved.

*Mentally Ill

 

[VictoryinJesus]

most people want to accept Christ with their mouths too i guess

can't really figure if the point there is to conflate faith with belief, trust and whatever the other thing was, to include faith in with stuff that can be done from a chair iow, or to avoid confessing some sin? Might be just me, but i am getting something like a "fear of moving at all" vibe from this, that the blatant denial of other relevant Scripture just reinforces imo

Matthew 12: 36-37 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Romans 3:13 "Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:"

Mark 16:18 "They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them;..."

Can we drink poison down as if there is no sting to it, and it will not harm us? Do our words justify, or condemn us?
Why ask you? Because I've seen you drink poison as if there is no hurt to it. ​

 

[Episkopos]

On what basis?

Mat. 18:10 See that you do not look down on any of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.

We are to be as children Jesus said...unconverted children? Are unconverted children evil??? (You know you think so.)

 

[Dave L]

John 9:41"to those who were offended at his teaching and asked if he thought they were blind-he said, "If you were blind, you would not have had sin; but since you say, 'We see,' your sin remains."
An infant, not to mention the mentally, does not have the natural capacity to see Gods will or even what sin is to God. So, I say babies, and certain others, by the awesome grace and mercy of God Almighty, are saved.

I disagree because sin is a condition of the human heart born corrupt in Adam. In time this condition comes out as external sins. In Romans 5 Paul speaks of all of Adam's children being considered sinful. And all of Christ's children being considered righteous through him. We are a corrupt species and remain so unless God saves us.

 

[Dave L]

Mat. 18:10 See that you do not look down on any of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.

We are to be as children Jesus said...unconverted children? Are unconverted children evil??? (You know you think so.)

“Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.” (Ephesians 2:3)

 

[Episkopos]

“Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.” (Ephesians 2:3)

So answer the question...

You have already shown that you believe the best verses about yourself and the worst possible verses about others.

But let's hear you contradict Jesus directly...If you were honest you would discount Jesus....as you already do anyway. You just won't admit it.

 

[Episkopos]

Jesus said...let the little children come to Me for as such are the kingdom of God.

I personally will have nothing to do with a person that calls evil what God has called good. Who take away the righteousness from the righteous.

Is. 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
22 Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:
23 Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!

And...

22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Jesus said...let the little children come to Me for as such are the kingdom of God.

I personally will have nothing to do with a person that calls evil what God has called good. Who take away the righteousness from the righteous.

Is. 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
22 Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:
23 Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!

And...

22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

Did children die in the flood outside of the Ark? If there were children and theirs is the kingdom … meaning literal children and not converted children of God as one must be born of water and Spirit, then why were they not in the Ark?