propitiation by His blood, through faith

[Dave L]

You would take my word for it?

I tend to see the potential in people...even you...being a religiously bigoted and pessimistic person...can come to the light of Christ's love. He is near...even in your heart and mouth!

But you are bound up in a religious bondage because of false teachings you have welcomed as the truth.

Sinners have no potential. Unless God saves us from our sins, evidenced by a holy lifestyle, we only get more cunning and wicked.

 

[bbyrd009]

All kinds of evil. Religious pride is the worst evil of all. But you are not even flinching...it has become as second nature (literally) to you/.

i guess second nature to pretty much any First-Worlder, logic pretty much insists upon a winner and a loser i guess.
Otherwise how could we sing "when we all get to heaven" in peace?

 

[Episkopos]

Sinners have no potential. Unless God saves us from our sins, evidenced by a holy lifestyle, we only get more cunning and wicked.

There it is again...

If we had no potential then we would be nonredeemable.

Why did Jesus ask people questions if He thought there was zero capacity to reason or to learn?

I know why you think as you do.


You have divided the tree of the knowledge of good and evil into 2...you think you are good...and others are only evil...not realizing that you are the greatest sinner of all.

But you have no understanding or experience of the tree of life...not yet.

On the subject of your prejudice against money for musicians....

Have you ever worked and expected to be paid for it?

 

[Harvest 1874]

= salvation by works.

What work did you do to be released from the condemnation which was upon the world?

I believe Christ took care of that. All that is necessary of the individual is faith and obedience.

 

[Harvest 1874]

***

Got it. You are saying that Jesus' work on the cross only makes salvation possible then a person has to obey the law and stop sinning to earn it..

You twist the word of God for your idea. The word of God says His shed blood paid for the sins of the whole world but you wish to change it by adding the works of man. What the word of God says is that all sins have been paid for. No one will go to hell because of sins of the flesh. They have all been paid for. BUT they will go to hell if they do not have FAITH IN GOD'S promise of salvation through faith (belief) in His Son's work on the cross. They are saved because they have placed their belief, faith, trust, and confidence in what God has done for us on the cross and in doing so glorify the work of Jesus, God's Son, on the cross. Those that are not saved do not place their belief, faith, trust and confidence in what God's Son did on the cross. When they do this they are refusing the pardon God has instituted for then and therefore are guilty of their sins of the flesh.

Most men/women could care less about God, The religious want God to honor their works as Cain did.

No you don't "got it", that's not what we said, that's what you said. As usual many are fond of putting things in other peoples mouths which they did not say or imply.

 

[Episkopos]

Imagine going to a wrecking yard (I saw this show on the net about this) and looking through all the old jalopies.

Then, your eye catches a beat up old car...that you think has the POTENTIAL to be restored.

So you buy it. (Redeem it)

You patiently restore the car to it's ORIGINAL factory condition (before the fall) and then take it to car shows.

If you think a car is too rusted out or is lacking too many parts...you don't buy that car as a potential restorer.

So then MANY are called and few are chosen.

Jesus has redeemed many old jalopies....but few allow themselves to be restored to the original factory condition (the full will of God being the full stature of Christ)

 

[Episkopos]

I saw a show about a man who LOVED old cars that visited a junkyard.

This man could name every jalopy he saw....a '49 this and a '51 that. There were cars from the 30's...all the way to the 70's. He knew which engine was in which. He knew the models...the options, the seat arrangements. The guy was PASSIONATE! He knew the restored value of every old junk heap that was there.

It reminded me of our Lord Jesus who goes through the world and sees all the models and years of people that are beaten up and worn out...and He LOVES us. He's passionate about the value we each have.

We ARE redeemable...and also restorable...if we allow the love of Christ to show us who were are and who we are meant to be in Him.

 

[Nancy]

The way I understand is that God regenerates us spiritually so that we can believe in the true Christ. Without this we always believe in a false Christ. And this faith produces a saved lifestyle of good works motivated by love. They are not legalistic but happen spontaneously in love. The gospel is not an offer as originally preached, but an announcement that whosoever believes in Christ has eternal life. In essence, you believe because God saved you, he did not save you because you chose to believe.

David L. You seem to be a proponent of Individual Selection? The way I understand it is that aThe Holy Spirit is who is sent forth to awaken the consciences of men so they see their need. If they harden their hearts enough times, their hearts become seared and will never come to the truth. It is impossible for me to believe a Good God would select just a special few and then, by default, allow everybody else to go to hell, or whatever it is that separates us from Him. Totally does away with any need at all to evangelize and also takes away Gods Justice.

 

[Dave L]

What work did you do to be released from the condemnation which was upon the world?

I believe Christ took care of that. All that is necessary of the individual is faith and obedience.

Faith and obedience are fruits of the Holy Spirit one must have before any fruit exists.

 

[bbyrd009]

No you don't "got it", that's not what we said, that's what you said. As usual many are fond of putting things in other peoples mouths which they did not say or imply.

most people want to accept Christ with their mouths too i guess

can't really figure if the point there is to conflate faith with belief, trust and whatever the other thing was, to include faith in with stuff that can be done from a chair iow, or to avoid confessing some sin? Might be just me, but i am getting something like a "fear of moving at all" vibe from this, that the blatant denial of other relevant Scripture just reinforces imo

 

[Episkopos]

Faith and obedience are fruits of the Holy Spirit one must have before any fruit exists.

That is total depravity...I mean THAT is total depravity.

 

[Dave L]

David L. You seem to be a proponent of Individual Selection? The way I understand it is that aThe Holy Spirit is who is sent forth to awaken the consciences of men so they see their need. If they harden their hearts enough times, their hearts become seared and will never come to the truth. It is impossible for me to believe a Good God would select just a special few and then, by default, allow everybody else to go to hell, or whatever it is that separates us from Him. Totally does away with any need at all to evangelize and also takes away Gods Justice.

The reason you believe is because God saved you. You can look at your faith and saved lifestyle knowing Christ paid for your sins on the cross. You would not believe otherwise.

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” (Galatians 5:22)

 

[Dave L]

That is total depravity...I mean THAT is total depravity.

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” (Galatians 5:22)

 

[Episkopos]

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” (Galatians 5:22)

Imagine going to a circus that had only one pony!?

A one trick pony at that.

Of course the faith OF Christ is a gift we receive AFTER we encounter God.

But you are missing the centurion who had a great faith...that he learned because he was a soldier and understood authority.

That centurion is much farther than you are...even before conversion to Christ.

That is the truth of it.

 

[Dave L]

Imagine going to a circus that had only one pony!?

A one trick pony at that.

Of course the faith OF Christ is a gift we receive AFTER we encounter God.

But you are missing the centurion who had a great faith...that he learned because he was a soldier and understood authority.

That centurion is much farther than you are...even before conversion to Christ.

That is the truth of it.

The centurion had the Holy Spirit or he would not have had faith.

 

[Episkopos]

The centurion had the Holy Spirit or he would not have had faith.

That's not what the bible says. Cornelius only received the Spirit in Acts 10.

You are WAY off...

 

[Dave L]

That's not what the bible says. Cornelius only received the Spirit in Acts 10.

You are WAY off...

All of the OT saints in Hebrews 11 had the Holy Spirit and the resulting faith. The centurion and many others who came for healing had the same.

 

[Nancy]

The reason you believe is because God saved you. You can look at your faith and saved lifestyle knowing Christ paid for your sins on the cross. You would not believe otherwise.

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” (Galatians 5:22)

Then how can I , in good conscience look my unsaved friends and family in the eyes and tell them that "God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."? I DO understand that there will be few who take the narrow road and many who take the wide, is that because "they loved the darkness more than the light? Did they sear their own consciences? Or, did God not give them an option? Were they not also included in the "whomsoevers, all's and any's" And, yes, I also know that nobody can come to God without His calling, and I believe that would be the Holy Spirit. And, to mention the fruit of the Spirit...many unsaved exhibit these same qualities. There are just too many scriptures telling me that Jesus blood atones for the sin of the WORLD...not just a select few.
God Bless and keep you.

 

[Episkopos]

All of the OT saints in Hebrews 11 had the Holy Spirit and the resulting faith. The centurion and many others who came for healing had the same.

So you are saying that Cornelius the Gentile soldier was an OT saint?

 

[Dave L]

So you are saying that Cornelius the Gentile soldier was an OT saint?

No, but had the same faith as the OT saints evidenced by his works and piety.