The Undiscovered Christ

[Episkopos]

If anyone thinks he knows anything, he does not yet know it as he ought to know it

and this goes double for the "Holy" creed-makers imo. "Holy Fathers" cannot by definition speak any truth, particularly about Christ, and every one of those creeds are warped, self-serving yack that take half a truth and run with it, as can be demonstrated in about 5 minutes in Scripture

Did you find something to share about this? Can you spare the 5 minutes for us?

 

[bbyrd009]

Did you find something to share about this? Can you spare the 5 minutes for us?

sure, pick your false doctrine/Absolute Truth, and Quote the vv that support it, and i'll Quote the vv that contest it if you like, i don't mind going around that track one more time if you want. If you assert Oneness, i'll go with Trinity, etc, i don't even care which wrong side you pick, see, we will both be guaranteed to be half right, meaning all wrong

 

[Episkopos]

sure, pick your false doctrine/Absolute Truth, and Quote the vv that support it, and i'll Quote the vv that contest it if you like, i don't mind going around that track one more time if you want. If you assert Oneness, i'll go with Trinity, etc, i don't even care which wrong side you pick, see, we will both be guaranteed to be half right, meaning all wrong

So that's how you do it....?!!!

 

[Taken]

How else should we understand you when you say Jesus was not human?

Go and search the Scriptures.

Did the Scriptures call Jesus ...
a HUMAN, man? No.

Does the Scriptures notify you ALL FLESH IS NOT THE SAME? Yes.

Does the Scriptures notify you ALL BODIES are NOT the Same? Yes

Does the Scriptures notify you Spirits become Humans? No.

Does the Scripture notify you Humans become Spirits? No

Does the Scriptures notify you Jesus is Spirit?
Yes.

Do created angelic spirits have the ability to APPEAR in the likeness of men? Yes

Do created angelic spirits have GREATER power and abilities than God Himself? No

Can and Has God Himself APPEARED to earthly men.....in the APPEARENCE "AS" a "HUMAN" man? Yes.

Does Jesus' APPEARENCE 'AS' AN Angel, a Human man, A burning bush, A Dove, A Cloud, etc..... MAKE Him those things? No.

God IS SPIRIT, HE does NOT CHANGE.

So when HUMAN men, TEACH Thee Lord God Almighty IS the Created....IT IS A LIE!

I choose to NOT ACCEPT the false teaching of HUMAN MEN.

You mention HUMAN & NATURE and attempt to gloss over the HUMAN part, and focus on the NATURE of a HUMAN, whereas SOME focus and teach some silly mathematical connotation of the Lord BEING 200% of what they Proclaim.

Natural human men come from the dust of the earth.

Absolutely I said that, in agreement with Scripture.

Jesus came forth out from God in Heaven."

Absolutely I said that, in agreement with Scripture.

I have NO disagreement that Jesus came in the FLESH....God Prepared Him a Body of Flesh, FOR WHEN He would come into the World and be SEEN by Human men.

Shocking, Human men SAW Jesus, in the likeness as a Human man, and CALLED HIM A MAN....lol

It is HUMAN MEN, who CHANGE Jesus Appearing AS, and Looking LIKE a Human man....TO HIM BEING a "HUMAN" man, with their FALSE TEACHING.

Scripture DOES Teach Human "KINDS" of man, came forth out of the Earths Dust.

Scripture DOES NOT TEACH Jesus' "KIND" of man, came forth out the Earths Dust.

Scripture DOES TEACH, TO NOT CHANGE the Word of God INTO A LIE.

Men teaching Jesus was a HUMAN KIND of man, IS A LIE.

I do not favor your teaching..."of Jesus' HUMAN "NATURE'.... "as if", Jesus had to "BE" what He created and made, to Understand what He created and made.

Perhaps you did not consider....it is the NATURE of Humans TO REJECT GOD.
It is the NATURE of Humans to Challenge, Disagree with, Reject, what they CAN NOT SEE and Understand.

Jesus came forth out from God, In the LIKENESS AS a (human) man, with Absolute Faithfulness To God....

You should have noticed, WHO in particular was Already disclosed as a FAITHFUL MAN, a Faithful Servant, and Called the Father of many Nations, and was Accounted RIGHTEOUS, and whose particular identified descendants were ALSO Faithful, and FURTHER were thee VERY SAME, that JESUS "took on" "those Particulars", as being His Ancestors, JUST as EVERY "Converted" Human man, "takes on" those Particulars", as being "their" Ancestors.

Jesus IS NOT the Created.
Human kinds of men ARE Created.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Helen]

sure, pick your false doctrine/Absolute Truth, and Quote the vv that support it, and i'll Quote the vv that contest it if you like, i don't mind going around that track one more time if you want. If you assert Oneness, i'll go with Trinity, etc, i don't even care which wrong side you pick, see, we will both be guaranteed to be half right, meaning all wrong

And that is the very reason that I refuse to go "toe to toe" with anyone in a cherry picked fight in 'favourite scriptures' to "prove"
some doctrine...

Our faith rests in a Person...not my our personal interpretation of what we choose to believe ....and declare as "The only truth" on the subject.

 

[Episkopos]

And that is the very reason that I refuse to go "toe to toe" with anyone in a cherry picked fight in 'favourite scriptures' to "prove"
some doctrine...

Our faith rests in a Person...not my our personal interpretation of what we choose to believe ....and declare as "The only truth" on the subject.

That works to some degree. But many will say Lord Lord....and that is a person they are appealing to.

There IS such a thing as truth. We are to speak the truth in love. The truth sets us free after all.

So in this day of relativity (there's a whole theory about this) ANYONE who speaks as the oracle of God will be seen as just another opinion monger.

But everyone must make their choice. That's why we are here.

If Jesus says to you...follow Me...and you, unsure if He is the real deal...just say...I just trust in God....but don't follow.....then your trust is empty.

You need to make a stand.

The lukewarm appeal to knowing a Jesus that doesn't speak through men. Laodicea means "the opinions of the people".

So unless your discernment is better than they, are you not also being lukewarm?

 

[Dave L]

Go and search the Scriptures.

Did the Scriptures call Jesus ...
a HUMAN, man? No.

Does the Scriptures notify you ALL FLESH IS NOT THE SAME? Yes.

Does the Scriptures notify you ALL BODIES are NOT the Same? Yes

Does the Scriptures notify you Spirits become Humans? No.

Does the Scripture notify you Humans become Spirits? No

Does the Scriptures notify you Jesus is Spirit?
Yes.

Do created angelic spirits have the ability to APPEAR in the likeness of men? Yes

Do created angelic spirits have GREATER power and abilities than God Himself? No

Can and Has God Himself APPEARED to earthly men.....in the APPEARENCE "AS" a "HUMAN" man? Yes.

Does Jesus' APPEARENCE 'AS' AN Angel, a Human man, A burning bush, A Dove, A Cloud, etc..... MAKE Him those things? No.

God IS SPIRIT, HE does NOT CHANGE.

So when HUMAN men, TEACH Thee Lord God Almighty IS the Created....IT IS A LIE!

I choose to NOT ACCEPT the false teaching of HUMAN MEN.

You mention HUMAN & NATURE and attempt to gloss over the HUMAN part, and focus on the NATURE of a HUMAN, whereas SOME focus and teach some silly mathematical connotation of the Lord BEING 200% of what they Proclaim.



Absolutely I said that, in agreement with Scripture.



Absolutely I said that, in agreement with Scripture.

I have NO disagreement that Jesus came in the FLESH....God Prepared Him a Body of Flesh, FOR WHEN He would come into the World and be SEEN by Human men.

Shocking, Human men SAW Jesus, in the likeness as a Human man, and CALLED HIM A MAN....lol

It is HUMAN MEN, who CHANGE Jesus Appearing AS, and Looking LIKE a Human man....TO HIM BEING a "HUMAN" man, with their FALSE TEACHING.

Scripture DOES Teach Human "KINDS" of man, came forth out of the Earths Dust.

Scripture DOES NOT TEACH Jesus' "KIND" of man, came forth out the Earths Dust.

Scripture DOES TEACH, TO NOT CHANGE the Word of God INTO A LIE.

Men teaching Jesus was a HUMAN KIND of man, IS A LIE.

I do not favor your teaching..."of Jesus' HUMAN "NATURE'.... "as if", Jesus had to "BE" what He created and made, to Understand what He created and made.

Perhaps you did not consider....it is the NATURE of Humans TO REJECT GOD.
It is the NATURE of Humans to Challenge, Disagree with, Reject, what they CAN NOT SEE and Understand.

Jesus came forth out from God, In the LIKENESS AS a (human) man, with Absolute Faithfulness To God....

You should have noticed, WHO in particular was Already disclosed as a FAITHFUL MAN, a Faithful Servant, and Called the Father of many Nations, and was Accounted RIGHTEOUS, and whose particular identified descendants were ALSO Faithful, and FURTHER were thee VERY SAME, that JESUS "took on" "those Particulars", as being His Ancestors, JUST as EVERY "Converted" Human man, "takes on" those Particulars", as being "their" Ancestors.

Jesus IS NOT the Created.
Human kinds of men ARE Created.

God Bless,
Taken

Jesus is one divine person (God) supernaturally conceived by God, born of the virgin Mary without a human father. He has a fully human nature (now glorified), and a fully divine nature. If you do not believe this, you either believe in a false Christ or haven't yet arrived at an understanding of him.

 

[Dave L]

If anyone thinks he knows anything, he does not yet know it as he ought to know it

and this goes double for the "Holy" creed-makers imo. "Holy Fathers" cannot by definition speak any truth, particularly about Christ, and every one of those creeds are warped, self-serving yack that take half a truth and run with it, as can be demonstrated in about 5 minutes in Scripture

Do you think education is good? If so, why do you find fault with creeds?

 

[Dave L]

Have any here who condemn the Ecumenical Creeds ever read them?

 

[Helen]

That works to some degree. But many will say Lord Lord....and that is a person they are appealing to.

There IS such a thing as truth. We are to speak the truth in love. The truth sets us free after all.

So in this day of relativity (there's a whole theory about this) ANYONE who speaks as the oracle of God will be seen as just another opinion monger.

But everyone must make their choice. That's why we are here.

If Jesus says to you...follow Me...and you, unsure if He is the real deal...just say...I just trust in God....but don't follow.....then your trust is empty.

You need to make a stand.

The lukewarm appeal to knowing a Jesus that doesn't speak through men. Laodicea means "the opinions of the people".

So unless your discernment is better than they, are you not also being lukewarm?

Sorry I didn't understand that much at all.
All I do see is that people continually quip- "Give me a verse for that"
....as if one verse is the whole counsel of God!

To quote what Soul man said this morning... "Some believers think what they believe is their salvation , other than "in whom they believe,"

I agree, some seem to think that their knowledge sets them as some kind of spiritual giants...
As I already mentioned today...we see in part, we know in part , we also see through a glass darkly...no single person has attained to all truth, alone. We are set in a Body....God's plan.

1 Cor. is clear... it causes us all to stay humble because we need each other, like it or not. Our own personal vision is not totally 'clear' ... so many are sure that what they believe supersedes the words of Paul...we just think that we personally know it all.. The Holy Spirit gives us each a small part , so that together we have all truth.

 

[Episkopos]

Sorry I didn't understand that much at all.
All I do see is that people continually quip- "Give me a verse for that"
....as if one verse is the whole counsel of God!

I agree. Some people take one verse that they misunderstand....out of context, and it stops them from seeing what is very plainly written elsewhere. it's very religious and very sad.

To quote what Soul man said this morning... "Some believers think what they believe is their salvation , other than "in whom they believe,"

I don't see that as the real issue. It is a deflection of sorts...clever sounding as it may be.

The error of most believers is to think that their own trust, confidence and overwhelming approval of the "finished work of the cross" is somehow of some import to God.

We are to be judged by our works (and words). Who cares what you are a fan of?

I agree, some seem to think that their knowledge sets them as some kind of spiritual giants...
As I already mentioned today...we see in part, we know in part , we also see through a glass darkly...no single person has attained to all truth, alone. We are set in a Body....God's plan.

We indeed need to leave room for God to intervene through others. We are members one of another. if we don't listen to Christ speaking through a brother or sister...then it is not against flesh and blood that we are striving.

1 Cor. is clear... it causes us all to stay humble because we need each other, like it or not. Our own personal vision is not totally 'clear' ... so many are sure that what they believe supersedes the words of Paul...we just think that we personally know it all.. The Holy Spirit gives us each a small part , so that together we have all truth.

But what I see a huge lack in is the sense of maturity...as in "I believe all are just as immature as I am." Just look at the disgraceful posts of so many here. it is disgraceful...in every sense of that word.

So then there is no understanding of understanding or authority.

But all this God will indeed sort out. It is unfortunate that no one will heed anything other than their own opinion. No fear of the Lord. No esteeming others for what they might be.

Who has any knowledge here of the holy? THAT is understanding.

 

[bbyrd009]

That works to some degree. But many will say Lord Lord....and that is a person they are appealing to.

the Lord is a person now Epi? I'm curious does He have a long white beard too

 

[Episkopos]

the Lord is a person now Epi? I'm curious does He have a long white beard too

It's hard to tell because the light emanating from His face is so bright. Don't you find?

 

[bbyrd009]

So in this day of relativity (there's a whole theory about this) ANYONE who speaks as the oracle of God will be seen as just another opinion monger.

the diff imo being that oracles state Absolute Truths and cannot be debated, whereas opinions are just what they advertise to be, perspectives that point to truth.

 

[Episkopos]

the diff imo being that oracles state Absolute Truths and cannot be debated, whereas opinions are just what they advertise to be, perspectives that point to truth.

But who is the judge of the truth? Opinion mongers?

What people think are absolute truths that everyone can agree on....like the existence of God and such.... a 5 year old can agree on those things.

But with people that's as far as it goes.

Any add on...where real life is concerned....people don't understand. So they make many doctrinal theories that seek to answer the imponderables.

So if someone says...wait...that's not how it is... then they will think it's just another opinion.

 

[bbyrd009]

Do you think education is good? If so, why do you find fault with creeds?

i think education is good which is why i find fault with creeds that attempt to set truth in amber and must rely on ignoring a holistic view of Scripture, like...all of the creeds you mentioned, wadr

 

[Episkopos]

i think education is good which is why i find fault with creeds that attempt to set truth in amber and must rely on ignoring a holistic view of Scripture, like...all of the creeds you mentioned, wadr

I agree that so often creeds do more harm than good. It is a human way of 'helping God'. A human way of trying to conform others to Christ....but NOT by the Spirit.

 

[Dave L]

i think education is good which is why i find fault with creeds that attempt to set truth in amber and must rely on ignoring a holistic view of Scripture, like...all of the creeds you mentioned, wadr

Creeds are like books that draw conclusions about what the bible says on certain topics. Many hours of debates, even years in some cases are available to us in them.

 

[bbyrd009]

It's hard to tell because the light emanating from His face is so bright. Don't you find?

i find the analogy useful, but now you are even claiming to have seen God's face Epi

 

[bbyrd009]

But who is the judge of the truth? Opinion mongers?

who is God's judge? dunno, sorry

What people think are absolute truths that everyone can agree on....like the existence of God and such.... a 5 year old can agree on those things.

maybe, but apparently 20 year olds cannot, so i would ask you for another example there

So if someone says...wait...that's not how it is... then they will think it's just another opinion.

you discuss a person who has accepted logic, but dialectic thinkers do not face this dilemma wadr.

the logician feels compelled to discover an absolute truth in a matter and write a law for it down in stone, so he will "know," and then seeks others who believe the same things. the dialectic thinker is freed from this deception