The Undiscovered Christ

[quietthinker]

Why do people always seem to choose the counterfeit over the real?

The devil knows what he is doing and always considers the best interest of men. He knows his clientele.

Mat' 16:23 But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.”

So you have the real Jesus setting His mind on the things of God....to the pleasure of God.

And you have Satan setting his mind on the things of men....to the pleasure of men.

Is it any wonder then that men are attracted to the counterfeit...which seeks to include their own sensibilities and concerns?

Who is concerned over the things of God...rather than their own eternal security, or their own status. People are basically selfish beings that seem unable to let their own self-interest go.

The self-interests of men are catered to...not resisted. Even in the church.

Yes, I know about these fake Jesus's, they are a burden.

DISECTION

Oh can we tell the story
and do we sing the song
of Jesus and his glory
the immortal risen one

Of course the other Jesus
yes, he’s around and sung
the counterfeit that washes clean
the work that God has done

Do we hear that still small voice?
and can we heed the call
to put on all the armour
lest deception rules the wall

That stately clean cut bearing
of an angel in disguise
has fooled the world with wonder
we need ointment for our eyes

Taking note of our direction
checking compass in the night
it’s not always clear and obvious
the counterfeit is tight

And who’s the other Jesus
that masquerades as Lord?
in our spiritual revivals
with our preaching self absorbed

Yes, he can fix your problems
find your keys and get a job
cater to the feel good feeling
worship self and think it’s God!

 

[Taken]

So are you agreeing he was a man too? As far as his nature?

Are you still without understanding?

It is not about "agreeing" with your words.

It is about understanding HOW God CHOSE To Teach "Corrupt" man-KIND To Become, In "His Likeness"; Making Himself The Example, While maintaining His absolute Holiness.

Jesus, IS Spirit, IS God, WHO came forth out from God Himself, expressly to come among HUMAN men, in the "LIKENESS" AS A MAN,
(Phil 2:5-8), FOR AN EXAMPLE (1 Pet 2:21-24) AND TEACHER, TO "HUMAN" MEN.

It is not a secret, All HUMAN MEN are Naturally Born, of a Human mans Corrupt seed, and That Did Not APPLY TO Jesus ever, including when HE was Revealed To the World, (that HE MADE ; John 1:10)

It is not a secret, Human men WHO become forgiven, saved, quickened in their spirit; Are sanctified, called righteous, have God with them; and THEY are the MEN whom Jesus came in the LIKENESS AS: Heb 2:14-17, Mark 3:35
BECAUSE such men had obtained the Lords LIKENESS.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Dave L]

Are you still without understanding?

It is not about "agreeing" with your words.

It is about understanding HOW God CHOSE To Teach "Corrupt" man-KIND To Become, In "His Likeness"; Making Himself The Example, While maintaining His absolute Holiness.

Jesus, IS Spirit, IS God, WHO came forth out from God Himself, expressly to come among HUMAN men, in the "LIKENESS" AS A MAN,
(Phil 2:5-8), FOR AN EXAMPLE (1 Pet 2:21-24) AND TEACHER, TO "HUMAN" MEN.

It is not a secret, All HUMAN MEN are Naturally Born, of a Human mans Corrupt seed, and That Did Not APPLY TO Jesus ever, including when HE was Revealed To the World, (that HE MADE ; John 1:10)

It is not a secret, Human men WHO become forgiven, saved, quickened in their spirit; Are sanctified, called righteous, have God with them; and THEY are the MEN whom Jesus came in the LIKENESS AS: Heb 2:14-17, Mark 3:35
BECAUSE such men had obtained the Lords LIKENESS.

God Bless,
Taken

Do you believe Jesus was born as a man through the virgin Mary?

 

[Dave L]

"
The Jewish problem

All this may shed a significant beam of light on why so many rulers had so much trouble with the Hebrews, Jews and early Christians: they wouldn't sit still! A people that huddles around a clearly visible effigy can be knocked into submission by knocking that deity off its socket (1 Samuel 5:3, 2 Kings 19:12). And a state that's formed on a particular set of "self-evident truths" can be easily dismantled by disproving the merits of these founding premises. But a nation of people that is devoted to learning, to changing, bending, doubting, refining and reforming can not possibly be molded into shape..." The amazing name Hebrew: meaning and etymology

so maybe it would be better if you just pick one and defend it as best you are able, and idc if you pick Oneness or Trinity, Total Depravity or Child of God, doesn't matter to me

Have you ever read the Ecumenical Creeds and know what they say? Nothing you say relates to them.

 

[Episkopos]

Yes, I know about these fake Jesus's, they are a burden.

DISECTION

Oh can we tell the story
and do we sing the song
of Jesus and his glory
the immortal risen one

Of course the other Jesus
yes, he’s around and sung
the counterfeit that washes clean
the work that God has done

Do we hear that still small voice?
and can we heed the call
to put on all the armour
lest deception rules the wall

That stately clean cut bearing
of an angel in disguise
has fooled the world with wonder
we need ointment for our eyes

Taking note of our direction
checking compass in the night
it’s not always clear and obvious
the counterfeit is tight

And who’s the other Jesus
that masquerades as Lord?
in our spiritual revivals
with our preaching self absorbed

Yes, he can fix your problems
find your keys and get a job
cater to the feel good feeling
worship self and think it’s God!

This one is as good as "Backwards, Christian soldiers." Nice.

 

[bbyrd009]

Have you ever read the Ecumenical Creeds and know what they say? Nothing you say relates to them.

are we still talking about trinity and total depravity, Dave? Yes, i understand that they are worded in such a way so as to allow your premise here ok, but in practice that does not matter imo, as we can see we have hordes of "Christian believers" all believing that Muslims or basically everyone except them are going to hell unless they worship the same Jesus they worship, right; heck with the Muslims, the Christian "church" across the street gets pretty much the same eye, right.

So see in your mouth i prolly have no problem with the creeds, ok, but in practice they are abused, and if you reflect upon them with a critical eye it even becomes apparent why specific creeds are emphasized. If you'd like to pick one and post it we could even see, but briefly they are determinations made from incomplete information by the winners, Dave, even though this might not be immediately apparent.

They liked being thought of as "Holy Fathers" with a capital F even, ok, which is an assumption, yes, but i am making it based upon their literal fruit, their progeny here

 

[Dave L]

are we still talking about trinity and total depravity, Dave? Yes, i understand that they are worded in such a way so as to allow your premise here ok, but in practice that does not matter imo, as we can see we have hordes of "Christian believers" all believing that Muslims or basically everyone except them are going to hell unless they worship the same Jesus they worship, right; heck with the Muslims, the Christian "church" across the street gets pretty much the same eye, right.

So see in your mouth i prolly have no problem with the creeds, ok, but in practice they are abused, and if you reflect upon them with a critical eye it even becomes apparent why specific creeds are emphasized. If you'd like to pick one and post it we could even see, but briefly they are determinations made from incomplete information by the winners, Dave, even though this might not be immediately apparent.

They liked being thought of as "Holy Fathers" with a capital F even, ok, which is an assumption, yes, but i am making it based upon their literal fruit, their progeny here

How can you comment on anything you have not first studied? What kind of juror would a person be to pass judgement without first hearing the case?

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, I know about these fake Jesus's, they are a burden.

ha, seems like that huh? there is a lesson in why it can be a good idea to make a show of appearances that will be misunderstood by most and grasped by only a few, that i am not really qualified to even explain i guess, i'm thinking of the Vampire Scene when many turned back, and you are thoughtful enough to get the rest i guess, so
thank God for fake Jesuses, and the service they provide imo

 

[bbyrd009]

How can you comment on anything you have not first studied? What kind of juror would a person be to pass judgement without first hearing the case?

Dave, you quoted "Holy Fathers" that took it upon themselves to define "creeds" ok, so you're coming to the plate with three strikes here imo, but bam if you want to post a reflection on a creed that has encouraged you in some way--any kind of way--i'm all ears

 

[Dave L]

Dave, you quoted "Holy Fathers" that took it upon themselves to define "creeds" ok, so you're coming to the plate with three strikes here imo, but bam if you want to post a reflection on a creed that has encouraged you in some way--any kind of way--i'm all ears

If you don't know what they say, how can you run them down and discredit them without judging them?

 

[Episkopos]

ha, seems like that huh? there is a lesson in why it can be a good idea to make a show of appearances that will be misunderstood by most and grasped by only a few, that i am not really qualified to even explain i guess, i'm thinking of the Vampire Scene when many turned back, and you are thoughtful enough to get the rest i guess, so
thank God for fake Jesuses, and the service they provide imo

I'm not so much against fake Jesuses....if people want a fake Jesus...it's a free country. But at a time where groceries need to be properly labeled for calories and fat content...you'd think the church would at least label the Jesuses correctly.

So I'm all in for proper labeling. I think we need to get with some discernment.

 

[bbyrd009]

If you don't know what they say, how can you run them down and discredit them without judging them?

why do you keep suggesting i don't know what they say?
i am judging them Dave, they are crap, all of them, specifically because they are creeds written by those who like being deemed Holy Fathers. Humble ppl do not get together and decide upon acceptable definitions of God for everyone else, or acceptable definitions of others based upon bad interpretations of Scripture. Elohim by definition are not Totally Depraved.

 

[bbyrd009]

So I'm all in for proper labeling.

wadr seems to me that you would appreciate being called a Holy Father too, ok
you have seen the Face of God, right

now i am not bringing this up to condemn you, but to point out that if you want to label then you are going to get labelled, and you are not going to realize or manifest any scenario in which you are not going to be made a hypocrite some kind of way.

 

[Episkopos]

wadr seems to me that you would appreciate being called a Holy Father too, ok

you have seen the Face of God, right

God is made near by Jesus Christ. We can go to Him...we have access to the very throne of God. THAT is what Christianity is about....relationship with the living God.

Have you not heard that we can boldly go to the throne room of God to make our request known?

I have been there just once. I asked for a miracle and God told me He would do as I requested...and He did.

This should be quite common among believers, no? I was only ONCE in the third heaven.

But I have walked in Zion in the light much more. Not enough by far...

Zion is the New Jerusalem....the kingdom realm we walk in by the Spirit. But this seems strange in today's man-made religion outlook....that promises life for NO encounter with God at all.

If I stated all the things I have seen and experienced from God...no one would believe me. It seems...either you understand...or you don't.

 

[Dave L]

why do you keep suggesting i don't know what they say?
i am judging them Dave, they are crap, all of them, specifically because they are creeds written by those who like being deemed Holy Fathers. Humble ppl do not get together and decide upon acceptable definitions of God for everyone else, or acceptable definitions of others based upon bad interpretations of Scripture. Elohim by definition are not Totally Depraved.

Have you ever read the Ecumenical Creeds? If so why do you disagree with them?

 

[bbyrd009]

But at a time where groceries need to be properly labeled for calories and fat content...

yes, all of the irrelevant things that don't matter in food

you'd think the church would at least label the Jesuses correctly.

see, here i'm sure you mean the Established church, right, the guys with creeds, not the real Church; so wadr i would contemplate that they are the ones made the fake Jesuses to begin with, which they even admit to right on the outside of the building, see, if you can read, the hypocrisy is proudly proclaimed right where it says "church" on the building, and we reinforce it every time we say we are "going to church."

 

[Episkopos]

yes, all of the irrelevant things that don't matter in food
see, here i'm sure you mean the Established church, right, the guys with creeds, not the real Church; so wadr i would contemplate that they are the ones made the fake Jesuses to begin with, which they even admit to right on the outside of the building, see, if you can read, the hypocrisy is proudly proclaimed right where it says "church" on the building, and we reinforce it every time we say we are "going to church."

You got it! I nominate you for the labeling committee.

 

[Nancy]

If anyone thinks he knows anything, he does not yet know it as he ought to know it

and this goes double for the "Holy" creed-makers imo. "Holy Fathers" cannot by definition speak any truth, particularly about Christ, and every one of those creeds are warped, self-serving yack that take half a truth and run with it, as can be demonstrated in about 5 minutes in Scripture

People put so very much weight behind what mere man say's so, instead of quoting directly from scripture, by way of the Holy Spirits teaching, they think they are wise in their own eyes. Every Christian needs to be a Barean! And pray fervently for clarity. Yes, we listen to sermons and read articles and such but, nothing used will open our understanding without the guidance of The Holy Spirit through scripture.

 

[Episkopos]

People put so very much weight behind what mere man say's so, instead of quoting directly from scripture, by way of the Holy Spirits teaching, they think they are wise in their own eyes. Every Christian needs to be a Barean! And pray fervently for clarity. Yes, we listen to sermons and read articles and such but, nothing used will open our understanding without the guidance of The Holy Spirit through scripture.

IOW....check it out!

 

[bbyrd009]

Have you ever read the Ecumenical Creeds?

i've answered this Q 4 times now Dave

If so why do you disagree with them?

for the same reason that you are ignoring my answers; once my premises are considered, yours become moot, right