Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!
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CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
Again, you didn't answer. With all due respect, I'm getting the impression that you really don't value scripture, listening to the Spirit, and very much prize the traditions of men (as long as they reflect your own personal interpretation).
Here's the questions once again:
Scripture is God-breathed and inspired by God Himself. Do you hold the same to be true of the Chalcedoian Creed? Athanasian? You did state that the Westminster is not. Why?
And by what logic do you conclude the statement "But to reject creeds and accept books is not evidence of clear thinking"? How does this compare to your rejection the Westminster Creed?
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Dave is set in his way. Leave him alone. He alone has knowledge.
It was my imagination when Jesus, told us he was sending us a son.
And again when he told me my wife was pregnant. Prayer in the imagined tongues and imagined interpretation saying he'd fulfilled his, promise. October 29,1979. Our sons birth June 25th 1980. We never had any tests for gender. On the operating table the doctor scoffing said "so it's going to be a boy is it"? Hoping it would be a girl of course. One of the nurses was, childless and from a prone position my dear faith filled wife told her to turn to Jesus.
It was the doctor's imagination that said we couldn't have children based on scientific tests.
It was imagination when we wrote his name in a baby book nine months before he was born.
A strong delusion when he was born June 25th,1980.
Another imagined voice told me a few months after Nathan's birth that I would be a father again within a year well before my wife conceived. Our daughter Joanna was born the next spring.
Again I learned sadly beforehand by the Holy Spirit that my dear Joanna would be taken. I did not want to hear that and so told no one. June 30, 1997 she went to be with the Lord.
If you haven't heard his voice Dave something is wrong. You can but that would take humbling yourself to a degree you've never imagined. Only the right set of circumstances will bring you to yield that part of yourself you've kept behind locked doors. Only the Lord knows what it will take.
I certainly wish you no ill. On the contrary only good. But I can not allow you to attack my Bible based, scripture based faith.
The things I've suffered are for the gospel not for me. God's grace toward you induces us to be patient, trying to induce you seek God and not men and their errors.
Seek God. Ask him of these, things, and not the writings of some dead religious scholar.
You are walking in the flesh and not in the spirit.
It was my imagination when Jesus, told us he was sending us a son.
And again when he told me my wife was pregnant. Prayer in the imagined tongues and imagined interpretation saying he'd fulfilled his, promise. October 29,1979. Our sons birth June 25th 1980. We never had any tests for gender. On the operating table the doctor scoffing said "so it's going to be a boy is it"? Hoping it would be a girl of course. One of the nurses was, childless and from a prone position my dear faith filled wife told her to turn to Jesus.
It was the doctor's imagination that said we couldn't have children based on scientific tests.
It was imagination when we wrote his name in a baby book nine months before he was born.
A strong delusion when he was born June 25th,1980.
Another imagined voice told me a few months after Nathan's birth that I would be a father again within a year well before my wife conceived. Our daughter Joanna was born the next spring.
Again I learned sadly beforehand by the Holy Spirit that my dear Joanna would be taken. I did not want to hear that and so told no one. June 30, 1997 she went to be with the Lord.
If you haven't heard his voice Dave something is wrong. You can but that would take humbling yourself to a degree you've never imagined. Only the right set of circumstances will bring you to yield that part of yourself you've kept behind locked doors. Only the Lord knows what it will take.
I certainly wish you no ill. On the contrary only good. But I can not allow you to attack my Bible based, scripture based faith.
The things I've suffered are for the gospel not for me. God's grace toward you induces us to be patient, trying to induce you seek God and not men and their errors.
Seek God. Ask him of these, things, and not the writings of some dead religious scholar.
You are walking in the flesh and not in the spirit.
Relax, Dave ... you do not need to be baptized with the Holy spirit to go to heaven.
It is a special anointing for ministry ... often for the 5-fold ministry (Eph 4:11).
But, multitudes of Spirit-filled BACs are incredibly important intercessors, and etc.
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The other good personal relationship NT verse is:
John 17:3 NKJV
"And this is eternal life, that they may know You,
the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent."
- the only true God as opposed to heathen idols
- the only true God as opposed to the absolutely fictional Allah
- Father God sent the Word, who became flesh (Jesus Christ)
I'm just trying to understand people's ways/thoughts-- what is the logic behind it? Things like background assumptions, logical processes, conclusions, resulting actions, etc. Sometimes people have really good logic, even if it's totally different than our own. Granted, some other times people don't remotely have logic.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
I am not a Pentecostal, but I do believe in gits of the spirit and have one or two of the more serious ones, not tongues.
Fact is every born again believer gets one, serious or not.
The Gifts of the Spirit
As for the baptism of the holy spirit, everyone is when they're born again.
The only reason I mention this is because I've seen some pretty serious damage chasing the Pentecostal version.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
Some seek God and truth. Some only seek what they are comfortable with. And others seek to find what they want.
The first is the hardest.
Think about my signature. Very revealing and a lot of people don't like what they see.
Well Dave, that is not true, nor did I say that.
Clearly you should have grasped, I do not require a man-made list, creed, mission statement, or whatever you want to call it... regardless of what it is based on.
It is astounding to me when someone says they are content with the SOURCE, and you are all in a huff because you favor a Third party making Cliff notes for you, and others
Do not jump on board.
The "Westminster group"? Never heard of them. What about the UMPTEEN "groups" that pray and fast....??
Yeah for them doing as Scripture directs them. But, but, but, what about YOU who has not joined with EVERY "group"...??
By "your" reasoning YOU miss a lot freedom producing truth by ignoring them!
(Which BTW is a ridiculous claim).
Glory to God,
Taken
By solid you mean that which men kept and continued and built upon. Did they not do the same thing with what God gave to Moses for centuries? What was it that Jesus found when he came on the scene? You want to consider history and man's ability to keep things right you need to consider more than one point of view.
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Are you saying to even be tempted to consideration, but not acting on the temptation would be considered sin to us?Disagree.
Temptation is one of those funky words, that is used to describe something that can apply, to two persons.
The Tempter is the one who initiates the temptation. Which is basically presenting another with an Idea, in hopes the other person will go along with their Idea.
The "Tempted" is the other person "hearing" the Temptors Idea.
It does not mean the other person Went along with the Idea.
To be Tempted, means several things.
1) to be approached by a Tempter.
2) to hear the Tempters Idea.
3) to consider the Tempters Idea.
4) to act on the Tempters Idea.
5) to outright reject the Tempters Idea.
6) to outright not act on the Tempers Idea.
Thus a person Tempted, does not concretely mean the other person DID or DID NOT "act" on the Tempters Temptation.
Nothing in Scripture reveals Jesus, Considered or Acted on Satan's Temptations.
Bottom line: Jesus was not accountable for The Tempter's (Satan's) Ideas/Temptations.
Jesus Having a Tempter TRY to get Jesus to consider or act on the Tempter's Idea....
Was simply a Lesson for mankind in HOW TO handle a Tempter WHOSE intent is sway a man Away from Gods teaching.
Men think up in their own mind enough stupid things they have to contend with....
WARNING....there are plenty of others around with stupid ideas, Against God, that lurk around trying to Get men to fall for their stupid ideas.
In the OT, men "tempted" thee Lord God on more than one occasion.
Paraphrasing; God told them to knock it off, it was a failed attempt, that they could not get Him to fall for their deceptions...(ie Temptation)
Thus God simply said, thou shalt not Tempt thy Lord thy God.
(In short, dudes, you are waiting your time.)
It was an important lesson that Jesus taught, BY He being the example, with a Tempter being a power, greater than Men.
(OT revealed God being tempted by men. NT revealed Christ Being tempted by a fallen spirit).
Both were lessons for HOW to overcome being in such situations.
Scriptural Temptations, are all designed for a Tempter to appeal to a mans "weakness", by presenting an Idea that appears to give the man "something natural men are GREEDY to have"; AT the expense of going Against Gods teachings and precepts.
SOLUTION;
Buzz Off, you are waiting your time.
Yes. Yet He did not consider the temptation or act upon the temptation.
In short, we are not responsible for what another Says or Does.
We are accountable for what we consider and do.
God Bless,
Taken
Nancy
Well-Known Member
I wonder what would happen if a group of Christians, spent say, a month with only a bible, and themselves - no other books, commentaries, forums...nothing but Gods Word and the Holy Spirit to teach and guide them. Have these Christians (presumably Spirit filled Christians) use no outside influence and then, separately, study the same thing, subject, book...it would be interesting to compare notes at the end of the month as to what they were shown through the Spirit.
Naysayers only entrench me into the Bible further. I'm honestly sorry for the fellow. He doesn't know that God's grace is being exhibited by longsuffering with him.
Once in the wee hours on the streets of Hot Springs Arkansas I was out witnessing at the behest of the Holy Spirit. I was talking to a a glass blower outside one of the shops near the Arlington hotel. He told me "if God would just come down here and sit on this bench and talk with me". He didn't realize that God had done just that. I was God's emissary saying be reconciled to God.
WE are His agents here doing his work by the Holy Spirit just as I am writing this now!
If it weren't for the Holy Spirit and His wonderful gifts, yes including tongues, I dont know where I'd be. The following is the interpretation of the tongue I was praying on October 29,1979. We'd been through harsh things waiting for the son he'd promised us through prophets, dreams and visions. Including having to give up a six month old boy that had been abandoned with us since his birth. God told us, to give him up because he was sending us our own son after 14 childless years. We loved that baby but in faith we gave him to a couple that had been married a far shorter time than us. We were very sad. Broken hearted. I won't write the trials we had regarding that little fellow but they were harsh.
After praying in the spirit one morning I realized that the Lord was giving me the interpretation. This is it.
Tuesday October 29,1979
"I tell you this, I've done as I promised and have fulfilled my counsel. Now ears will tingle at the testimony of this work. You have waited but I have waited too. I have heard you from the first time you ever cried out to me for a child. Because you looked to me and not to men I have done this. The mouths of the scoffers will be shut at the telling. Fear not the word of the Lord is good news! We will rejoice together in this"!
We went to a lab that week and they were in agreement with God!
I put these words on a plaque that hangs on the wall.
We put his name, Nathan Matthew Jennings in a baby book that week. He was born the next June 25th right at nine months.
I encourage all not to belittle any of God's gifts. Especially since this belittlement originates with satan and is picked up by denominations. They attempt to make spirit filled Christians ashamed of what Jehovah God made! Astounding and horrifying.
They are supernatural gifts and for purposes we can't fully comprehend. I've seen marvelous things come from all of his gifts.
Having all of these things happen outside church walls has underlined to me how blessed I am to have escaped the tentacles of denominational churches. Hallelujah!
Once in the wee hours on the streets of Hot Springs Arkansas I was out witnessing at the behest of the Holy Spirit. I was talking to a a glass blower outside one of the shops near the Arlington hotel. He told me "if God would just come down here and sit on this bench and talk with me". He didn't realize that God had done just that. I was God's emissary saying be reconciled to God.
WE are His agents here doing his work by the Holy Spirit just as I am writing this now!
If it weren't for the Holy Spirit and His wonderful gifts, yes including tongues, I dont know where I'd be. The following is the interpretation of the tongue I was praying on October 29,1979. We'd been through harsh things waiting for the son he'd promised us through prophets, dreams and visions. Including having to give up a six month old boy that had been abandoned with us since his birth. God told us, to give him up because he was sending us our own son after 14 childless years. We loved that baby but in faith we gave him to a couple that had been married a far shorter time than us. We were very sad. Broken hearted. I won't write the trials we had regarding that little fellow but they were harsh.
After praying in the spirit one morning I realized that the Lord was giving me the interpretation. This is it.
Tuesday October 29,1979
"I tell you this, I've done as I promised and have fulfilled my counsel. Now ears will tingle at the testimony of this work. You have waited but I have waited too. I have heard you from the first time you ever cried out to me for a child. Because you looked to me and not to men I have done this. The mouths of the scoffers will be shut at the telling. Fear not the word of the Lord is good news! We will rejoice together in this"!
We went to a lab that week and they were in agreement with God!
I put these words on a plaque that hangs on the wall.
We put his name, Nathan Matthew Jennings in a baby book that week. He was born the next June 25th right at nine months.
I encourage all not to belittle any of God's gifts. Especially since this belittlement originates with satan and is picked up by denominations. They attempt to make spirit filled Christians ashamed of what Jehovah God made! Astounding and horrifying.
They are supernatural gifts and for purposes we can't fully comprehend. I've seen marvelous things come from all of his gifts.
Having all of these things happen outside church walls has underlined to me how blessed I am to have escaped the tentacles of denominational churches. Hallelujah!
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I am going to presume "us", is a reference to those "saved and born again". ??
Those NOT saved and born again have a different set of circumstances.
And remembering, God searches the thoughts in a mans Heart, so we are not talking about the Mind.
Before having received salvation and being born again....A man NOT verbalizing, A man NOT doing.....who had thoughts against Gods Word.....who was considering thoughts against Gods Word was committing a sin.
So to your answer, "for a saved and born again man", the answer is no. They can't.
They no longer have the "same heart"...or "spirit".
God Bless,
Taken
bbyrd009
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ah, i definitely have no conclusions that i need to reach at the present that i am aware of, yes
This is why I do not listen to one church position or creed only. And why I say Christendom (the body of Christ) has all of the truth. But no single church or denomination has all the truth. This is why I study beyond the constraints of any single denomination. And consider myself a member of Christ's body, and not a member of any man made group divided off from the rest.
You have just written your own creed about rejecting the creeds of others. Are libraries bad? And books should be burned? Each text book is nothing more than a creed.
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