Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!

[Dave L]

Ecumenical creeds | Wikiwand

the creeds have all gone down in flames, long time ago
just go kiss the ring and be a Catholic already

If they went down in flames, so do they who trample the truth of scripture under foot.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Not an answer to any of my questions. Let's try again.

Pointing out: scripture is God-breathed and inspired by God Himself. Do you hold the same to be true of the Westminster Creed? (Just for one example).

And by what logic do you conclude the statement "But to reject creeds and accept books is not evidence of clear thinking"?

*bump*

 

[Dave L]

*bump*

I said above I've found errors in the Westminster. But you cannot draw any conclusion from scripture and not form a creed of your own.

 

[bbyrd009]

*bump*

Jane, you only think you are having a convo ok
or i mean good luck

 

[amadeus]

You cannot draw any conclusion about what the bible says. While holding your present view of others who have drawn conclusions and wrote them down for us. Especially after proving them to be true through intense debate.

Do you really believe that intense debate will resolve an issue according to God's will? It seems to me the decision would go to the best debater even if he happened to be an unbeliever or a believer holding onto error. Without the Holy Ghost leading him the best debater in man's world would miss the mark. Consider what Jesus said here as opposed to your way to truth:


"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

 

[Dave L]

Do you really believe that intense debate will resolve an issue according to God's will? It seems to me the decision would go to the best debater even if he happened to be a unbeliever or a believer holding onto error. Without the Holy Ghost leading him the best debater in man's world would miss the mark. Consider what Jesus said here as opposed to your way to truth:


"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

The setting was in the early years of the New Covenant. And many views emerged about Christ, most of them false. So the churches began holding combined meetings to debate the heretics. And in some cases this went on for decades. But in the end, they wrote down the final doctrine that settled the debate. This is where we get many of our teachings today. Some of the heretics remain today but their false doctrines are as old as the hills.

 

[Frank Lee]

How do you know what the bible says if you ignore centuries of learning. Assuming the Holy Spirit made you an "insider" and not the teachers in the church?

1. How do I know what the Bible says? By the Holy Spirit

You are steeped in denominationalism and deny the Holy Spirit baptism. I cannot talk to any man arguing from his fleshly wisdom.

I actually lament your shackled condition.

Read your Bible.

You've NEVER said one single thing you believe that God told you. Not one.

Do you suppose that the Holy Spirit never spoke to any of those here? I have better things to do than wrestle with denominational emmisarys over their dogma.

Do you realize there's zero peace or wisdom in your presentations? Just religious argument. I don't care how learned you are you've not yielded to the Holy Spirit.

 

[Taken]

Why do you think the creeds are men's word and your word is not?

Dave, I am not going to credit you with being a mind-reader of my thoughts....

So, do tell, where did YOU come up MY THOUGHTS ?....because I said no such thing.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Frank Lee]

As far as being an "Insider" to the Holy Spirit I am. And so is everyone baptized in the Holy Spirit. As says the word.

You deny the things we profess. The things written in the Bible. Men worshipping their own creations and not able to see it. Jesus said it first;

Mark 8:21 KJVS
And he said unto them, How is it that ye do not understand?

1 Corinthians 2:14-15 KJVS
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them , because they are spiritually discerned. [15] But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

John 9:40-41 KJVS
And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also? [41] Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Sin? Yes it is, sin to deny the gifts and calling of the Holy Spirit

 

[amadeus]

The setting was in the early years of the New Covenant. And many views emerged about Christ, most of them false. So the churches began holding combined meetings to debate the heretics. And in some cases this went on for decades. But in the end, they wrote down the final doctrine that settled the debate. This is where we get many of our teachings today. Some of the heretics remain today but their false doctrines are as old as the hills.

You are still looking to man's history instead of to God. Man's history is necessarily flawed because man himself is flawed. The only way to truth then and now is via the Holy Ghost. We must be led by God to the correct conclusions in order to grow closer to Him. If we do not grow, we will stagnate and die... if we are not already dead.

Following history is worse than following science. The best of scientists will likely end up believing in God if he did not at the start. The best of historians, on the other hand, cannot apply a scientific method to his studies of what happened 200 or 500 or 2000 years ago if he depends on the writings of men alone. He has no first hand observations. He must trust the observations of those who wrote before him if anyone did and hope they were truthful in what they wrote.

 

[Dave L]

You are still looking to man's history instead of to God. Man's history is necessarily flawed because man himself is flawed. The only way to truth then and now is via the Holy Ghost. We must be led by God to the correct conclusions in order to grow closer to Him. If we do not grow, we will stagnate and die... if we are not already dead.

Following history is worse than following science. The best of scientists will likely end up believing in God if he did not at the start. The best of historians, on the other hand, cannot apply a scientific method to his studies of what happened 200 or 500 or 2000 years ago if he depends on the writings of men alone. He has no first hand observations. He must trust the observations of those who wrote before him if anyone did and hope they were truthful in what they wrote.

Not really. I'm saying there are centuries of solid doctrine available for us if we look for it. Truth does not change.

 

[Dave L]

Dave, I am not going to credit you with being a mind-reader of my thoughts....

So, do tell, where did YOU come up MY THOUGHTS ?....because I said no such thing.

Glory to God,
Taken

Any time you form a conclusion about anything, you form a doctrine. Learning from the the more learned is a sign of wisdom.

 

[Dave L]

1. How do I know what the Bible says? By the Holy Spirit

You are steeped in denominationalism and deny the Holy Spirit baptism. I cannot talk to any man arguing from his fleshly wisdom.

I actually lament your shackled condition.

Read your Bible.

You've NEVER said one single thing you believe that God told you. Not one.

Do you suppose that the Holy Spirit never spoke to any of those here? I have better things to do than wrestle with denominational emmisarys over their dogma.

Do you realize there's zero peace or wisdom in your presentations? Just religious argument. I don't care how learned you are you've not yielded to the Holy Spirit.

I'm not denominational. I'm just saying the truth sets us free and much of it is trampled under foot today.

 

[Frank Lee]

I'm not denominational. I'm just saying the truth sets us free and much of it is trampled under foot today.

What does God say directly to you? Jesus promised his sheep would know his voice.

Yes trampled underfoot. Men walking in the flesh and denying the spirit. That which is, flesh is, flesh and that of spirit is spirit.

 

[Dave L]

What does God say directly to you? Jesus promised his sheep would know his voice.

Yes trampled underfoot. Men walking in the flesh and denying the spirit. That which is, flesh is, flesh and that of spirit is spirit.

If you are hearing voices, check it against God's word.

 

[CoreIssue]

I don't have a creed. I have personal beliefs based on 57 years of study. Study of the bible, history, language, and linguistics.

I listen to what others say to see if they are making points I should be considered.

I also pray and keep myself open to the holy spirit.

Everything is always open to change if I find it needs changing.

David L does not think that way. It shows in what he says and thinks.

 

[Frank Lee]

If you are hearing voices, check it against God's word.

I'm sincerely sorry for you walking in your flesh as you do. If you do not hear his voice something is very wrong. You have never shared a single thing God told you. Only what other men told you to believe.

Voices? Yes His.

John 10:16 KJVS
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

John 10:27 KJVS
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Since you do not hear his voice then what voice do you hear?

 

[CoreIssue]

Not really. I'm saying there are centuries of solid doctrine available for us if we look for it. Truth does not change.

You mean like catholic, covenant, Amish, Mennonite, Calvinism, etc?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I said above I've found errors in the Westminster. But you cannot draw any conclusion from scripture and not form a creed of your own.

Ok, that's partially answered.

Scripture is God-breathed and inspired by God Himself. Do you hold the same to be true of the Chalcedoian Creed?
Athanasian? You did state that the Westminster is not. Why?

And by what logic do you conclude the statement "But to reject creeds and accept books is not evidence of clear thinking"? How does this compare to your rejection the Westminster Creed?

I am asking to try to understand the logic behind your belief system. Right now, I'm struggling to find it.

I'm not denominational. I'm just saying the truth sets us free and much of it is trampled under foot today.

Right now you are showing very strong denominational tendencies.

 

[bbyrd009]

But you cannot draw any conclusion from scripture and not form a creed of your own.

he who says he knows anything does not yet know