Believers stay righteous through their obedience

[bbyrd009]

If you think for a little while I believe that you might be able to see how this is an adequate answer to your question.

sorry, it may be that i have worded the Q too ambiguously for you, my fault ok. But no, you did not answer the question, the spirit of which is meant to address the belief that Jesus died to cover your sins from God's Eye, and you believe this, correct? Then all that other stuff becomes superfluous, see,

"Take up your cross and follow Jesus" simply means that when we receive Jesus as the Lord of our lives, His love is the Lord of our lives.

i mean, golly, ty, but do you really think this is what i meant to ask? And it only gets worse from there, no offense. Obviously if i believe that Jesus died for my sins in the manner you believe, picking up my cross and following amounts to making flowery pious statements whenever i am on a recruiting mission, or other irrelevant pastimes that do not affect my salvation in the least, right;

"i believe Jesus died for my sins, ergo i am saved, once saved always saved, and i'll just pass on the picking up the cross thing, tyvm?"

 

[bbyrd009]

The NT shows you the way, you simply reject it at every turn, you laugh at us, ridicule all we say, make light heart of all, than complain we dont answer you?? You choose your path, if God and the works of Christ cant sway you, than no way in the world we can

if you can't answer the question mjr prolly better to just stay quiet and stop throwing condemnation around,
but do what you like ok, i am not condemning you

"i believe Jesus died for my sins, ergo i am saved, once saved always saved, and i'll just pass on the picking up the cross thing, tyvm?"

 

[bbyrd009]

You are so busy trying to save yourself you are neglecting the one who has paid the price for you.

you are so busy trying to find a pulpit that you refuse to acknowledge that i have agreed many times that works will not save you mjr, and that i do not need some blind holier-than-thou to come and restate the obvious to me as if they actually knew anything, which i do not even claim, yet you do, in every post

 

[bbyrd009]

But then again, maybe it has and/or is going to go over your head

ah, maybe that's it, ya, must be going over my head i guess

so why not talk to mjr, and he can talk to you,
and i can leave, and everybody's happy! Opa!

 

[mjrhealth]

"i believe Jesus died for my sins, ergo i am saved, once saved always saved, and i'll just pass on the picking up the cross thing, tyvm?"

If you did we wouldnt be having this discussion

have agreed many times that works will not save you mjr, and that i do not need some blind holier-than-thou to come and restate the obvious to me as if they actually knew anything, which i do not even claim, yet you do, in every post

Why are you so offended, if not by Christ than it is by the works of the law, is not that what you insist upon, carrying your own cross, if not by His works, than there is only yours. Does Christ offend you, He is all I have ever pointed you to, He is whom the bible points you too. This topic is all about righteousness, we have none of our own, you want it, than He is the only way, there is no other

 

[bbyrd009]

If you did we wouldnt be having this discussion



Why are you so offended, if not by Christ than it is by the works of the law, is not that what you insist upon, carrying your own cross, if not by His works, than there is only yours. Does Christ offend you, He is all I have ever pointed you to, He is whom the bible points you too. This topic is all about righteousness, we have none of our own, you want it, than He is the only way, there is no other

i already said you don't have to address the Q mjr, you can stop squirming now ok

 

[mjrhealth]

i already said you don't have to address the Q mjr, you can stop squirming now ok

Squirming not for me.

 

[bbyrd009]

Squirming not for me.

picking up your cross not for you either, i guess
or i mean at least let's acknowledge that that is strictly optional in your perspective of
Jesus Did It All

and just for the record i am not condemning you for this, nor making any determinations about your faith, i got no sermons for you, none of that, ok

 

[Helen]

If you could say why you wondered just now maybe that would help, but imo any differences in our povs can prolly be summed up in this Q, the Q that no one wants to answer btw, "If Jesus died for our sins, then why are we commanded to pick up our crosses and follow?"

I guess until I was posting my post I had just presumed that we were both talking about the same thing...and seeing the scripture verse the same.
The longer I am on this Site, the more often I am finding that people come up with a strange twist on some verses...( and make some legalist clause in some verse which I can't see. )
So, I just felt to ask :)

Mark 8 "And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."

Luke 9 "And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me."

Matthew 16 " Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it."

The word 'save' there, is the same meaning as 'save' when Peter on the water called out.. " Lord save me"...
If Peter had tried to save his own life he would have lost it..yet putting his life in Jesus hands he save it.

BTW, I see no command here...you said :-

"If Jesus died for our sins, then why are we commanded to pick up our crosses and follow?"

In all these scriptures that I quoted, I bolded the "If any man will" So, I see an invitation here...we His followers can take up the invite or not. It is to our advantage to let Him save us from sinking , because our efforts of saving ourselves will fail us.

Same with our picking up our cross...it can be negative or positive. When Jesus died on the cross it was a sacrifice...it meant his dead ...but it also represented the great LOVE of the Father , for us..
So the cross is both our sacrifice in giving up our own will and way for His will and way. But our taking up the cross is also our love for Him and desire to "follow close". (= fellowship)

That is how I see it anyway.
Some "christians" follow close, as we know...and some choose to follow their own flesh...But, we are well aware of the mixture found within Christendom. :)

 

[bbyrd009]

BTW, I see no command here...you said :-
In all these scriptures that I quoted, I bolded the "If any man will" So, I see an invitation here

ok, good point, no command per se
for an unbeliever at least

iow this is technically true, but i meant to ref "believers in Jesus."
so you will cause me to rephrase here i guess, but the Q will not change in Spirit,

"If Jesus did it all and all i have to do is believe that to be 'saved,' then i am completely justified in considering 'picking up my cross' to be optional for my salvation, huh?"

so ty, and if you see any holes in that one do the same if you would

 

[justbyfaith]

iow you didn't answer the Q then,

Actually, I did.

 

[bbyrd009]

Actually, I did.

pls see post 310, ty

i'm sure you meant to, and perhaps the point just was not as clear as i assumed, my apologies

 

[justbyfaith]

"i believe Jesus died for my sins, ergo i am saved, once saved always saved, and i'll just pass on the picking up the cross thing, tyvm?"

The point would make about this is that if anyone knows that they are forgiven through Jesus' death on the Cross, they will love Jesus much (Luke 7:36-50, 1 John 4:19, Romans 5:5).

If we love Him, we will obey His commandments; including His commandment to take up our cross daily and follow Him.

So then, knowing that I am once saved always saved, does not produce in me that attitude that you speak of, "I'll just pass on the picking up the cross thing..." I pick up my cross and follow Him because He has apprehended me and placed His love in my heart...which means that forevermore I will put myself last...which is what it means to me that I should pick up my cross daily and follow Him.

 

[mjrhealth]

picking up your cross not for you either, i guess
or i mean at least let's acknowledge that that is strictly optional in your perspective of
Jesus Did It All

and just for the record i am not condemning you for this, nor making any determinations about your faith, i got no sermons for you, none of that, ok

Actually it is, because it is not for everyone, and as you see many turned from Christ because it all became to hard. Taking up the cross is not for everyone, doesnt meant that those who dont, wont be saved, Salvation is grace by faith, how many times must it be repeated. As for taking up that cross, it leads you to death, so that He can raise you up into the newness of His life. For some that has already happened, the cross is behind us, Christ is in front of us, and our eyes are upon Him. We are supposed to be looking at Jesus for our salvation things die at the cross.

 

[justbyfaith]

Actually it is, because it is not for everyone, and as you see many turned from Christ because it all became to hard. Taking up the cross is not for everyone, doesnt meant that those who dont, wont be saved, Salvation is grace by faith, how many times must it be repeated. As for taking up that cross, it leads you to death, so that He can raise you up into the newness of His life. For some that has already happened, the cross is behind us, Christ is in front of us, and our eyes are upon Him. We are supposed to be looking at Jesus for our salvation things die at the cross.

Salvation is in essence to receive the love of the Lord: and to live by the love of the Lord is to take up your cross and follow Him (to put yourself last). Therefore in receiving salvation we accept the terms that God has given concerning discipleship, or else we will fall away from the faith the moment that Christ calls on us to live by the love that He has placed within us.

 

[farouk]

Salvation is in essence to receive the love of the Lord: and to live by the love of the Lord is to take up your cross and follow Him (to put yourself last). Therefore in receiving salvation we accept the terms that God has given concerning discipleship, or else we will fall away from the faith the moment that Christ calls on us to live by the love that He has placed within us.

Eternal security does not depend on our efforts; it depends on the active obedience of Christ made good to us by faith by His grace. (Ephesians 2.8-9; Romans 8.38-39)

 

[justbyfaith]

Eternal security does not depend on our efforts; it depends on the active obedience of Christ made good to us by faith by His grace. (Ephesians 2.8-9; Romans 8.38-39)

No one is saying otherwise.

My point is that when the love of the Lord is shed abroad in the heart (Romans 5:5) it will work itself out practically in a person's life (1 John 3:17-18).

 

[mjrhealth]

Salvation is in essence to receive the love of the Lord: and to live by the love of the Lord is to take up your cross and follow Him (to put yourself last). Therefore in receiving salvation we accept the terms that God has given concerning discipleship, or else we will fall away from the faith the moment that Christ calls on us to live by the love that He has placed within us.

Not all men are called to be disciples, just as not all are called to be ministers or prophets nor priests. Yes we are "asked" to walk in His love, since we have none really of our own, ours is simply not sufficient. As for the cross, how far are you going to carry it?, if it is before you, than you have not died to self, if it is behind you than self is dead, and you have being raised up to walk in the newness of His life. than self has no place because your old life is dead.

as I stated previously

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom_6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Has to do with this part

Mat 20:22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
Mat 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

Do you know what His baptism was and His cup.

Because that is where your cross takes you and He will carry the burden it was never meant to be ours.

He did it so we wouldnt have to. So we have nothing to boast of but Christ Jesus.

 

[brakelite]

For an explanation as to the significance of the reasons for the death of the Son of God and the shedding of blood we need look no further than the OT sanctuary services and the sacrifices offered therein.

From the time of Moses until the time of Christ, God revealed Himself in the sanctuary, and there communicated with His people. Said God, “I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy scat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.” Exodus 25:22. Besides this, God also talked with Moses “at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the Lord.” Exodus 29:42. As God's dwelling place, among men, the sanctuary must ever be of deep and abiding interest to the believing child of God. When, in addition, we understand that the tabernacle and its services were symbolic of “the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man,” the “greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands,” and that Christ is “a minister of the sanctuary” in heaven. When we also understand that the services of the tabernacle on earth were symbolic of the higher service above, that the entire ritual and all the sacrifices on the earthly altars pointed to the true Lamb of God, the sanctuary becomes of still more importance. In it the gospel is foreshadowed and some of the deep things of God revealed. Christians would do well to study more diligently the sanctuary and its services. They contain precious lessons for the devout student. Too many have failed to give study to Christ's high priestly ministry and His session at the right hand of God. They are not acquainted with Him as High Priest, though this work is the very essence of Christianity, the heart of the atonement.
An excerpt from The Sanctuary Service, by M L Andreason. I highly recommend this book... Understanding the why and wherefores of the OT services provides great insight into the cross and the present ministry of Christ in heaven.

 

[brakelite]

Read the whole context of Matthew 10:5-42 and in context, you will discover that our taking up our own cross is to walk the same road that Jesus walked. The cross of self denial... The cross that became acquainted with grief and sorrow... The cross that brought a sword of division between parents and children; between siblings; between friends. The cross that meant hardship and self sacrifice. That brought persecution and bloodshed upon its bearers. That is the cross we are called to bear. If we refuse it, Jesus said we are not worthy of Him.