OSAS is the result of the finished work of the cross

[Marymog]

No., Paul wrote Rom 8:33-39, not Calvin silly, you cant find it because believing His word is based on believing His word. God bless u Mary

Thank you Heb,

Are you saved?

Mary

 

[CoreIssue]

Hi,

If Calvin didn't originate (create the theory) of OSAS then why did it take 1,500 years for Christianity to properly interpret Romans 8 to mean OSAS? There were a lot of great Christians BEFORE Calvin. Why did God wait 1,500 years to reveal this theory to his Church?

Curious Mary

PS....Which passage in Romans 8 do you believe supports OSAS? I can't find it.

God revealed it from the beginning. But Catholicism tried to bury it by declaring themselves the source of salvation and preaching conditional salvation.

Which passage? Read says God foreknew who would love him and predestined them all the way to salvation. That is inescapably OSAS.

 

[amadeus]

Yes, they were never really saved in the first place, either you're born again or your not

What does it mean to be born again?

Please relate your answer to what Adam and Eve lost and how Jesus had opened the way to it again. If you don't know and/or don't want to answer, would you please stop bothering us here?

 

[Heb 13:8]

Thank you Heb,

Are you saved?

Mary

I am, 2005.

 

[Heb 13:8]

What does it mean to be born again?

Please relate your answer to what Adam and Eve lost and how Jesus had opened the way to it again. If you don't know and/or don't want to answer, would you please stop bothering us here?

Adam and Eve existed before Pentecost and God's seal, Eph 1:13-14. Planting the seed is bothering, I agree devil hates it

1 Cor 3 What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. 7So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. 9For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building.

Born Again
A - Admit you're a sinner
B - Believe that God raised Jesus from the dead
C - Confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord

 

[quietthinker]

I don't entertain the devil, mixing truth with lies

Thats a convenient out for you. How is the question asked entertaining the devil?

 

[quietthinker]

The work has already been done, so let us rest in His work. OSAS is not a doctrine, it's rather the result of what Jesus already did for us. The carnal mind can't conceive that it is finished or that the gift of salvation is free, so those who oppose it place a price tag on themselves. , they work for the gift not knowing they're in defiance to God and the work He already did.

They fear God instead of seeing Him as a friend, instead of accepting the truth that has been given to them through the internet. I suppose there is no difference in the Pharisee up in Jesus face 2000 year ago and Thomas wanting to see the nail marks in His hand vs his saints on the internet sharing the truth. Blessed is the one who does not see and yet believes.

Still, in all this defiance over centuries, God still loves them. All He requires is for us to believe in what He did, but we can't even do that right. We have to hold on to ourselves, our pride, ego, our world power. But don't you see, that's what is killing you. There is no truth in you unless you are born of God, He is the only truth in the end.

We have all fallen short of the Glory of God, even one sin that you've committed in your entire life places you in enmity with God and his saints. So how does one reconcile himself back to God, through belief in who Jesus says He is. He is God in the flesh who has died for your sins and has risen!. Don't just hear it, receive it.

Disobedience is not trusting in the finished work of the cross, they say disobedience is lack of daily repentance, following commandments etc etc... but they don't realize that what their preaching is actually the disobedience they obtain too, worshiping Christ without actually having Christ. Loss of salvation is the defiance, not trusting in what He already did for you. That's how the devil works, he reverses the truth because he opposes God and the victory that's already won.

It's not that the devil doesn't want you to know the truth, but rather he doesn't want you to receive it because you're already his. The hardest thing to do is believe and walk away from everything that you think is truth, so walk away and let's be friends in Christ.

I might ask, what was it that was finished at the cross? It's possible to apply that statement to any number of conclusions. I know it definitely doesn't mean cleaning ones teeth or the need to stop at red traffic lights!

 

[Heb 13:8]

Thats a convenient out for you. How is the question asked entertaining the devil?

Don't you know that sanctification, discipline and godly sorrow come from the Lord and not to save ourselves

 

[Heb 13:8]

I might ask, what was it that was finished at the cross? It's possible to apply that statement to any number of conclusions. I know it definitely doesn't mean cleaning ones teeth or the need to stop at red traffic lights!

Col 2:13-15 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

 

[quietthinker]

Don't you know that sanctification, discipline and godly sorrow come from the Lord and not to save ourselves

I have tried for the life of me to understand your answer as if I was missing something. My conclusion is that you are doing nothing more than sidestepping and avoiding while attempting to appear pious.

 

[quietthinker]

Col 2:13-15 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

so what was it that was finished at the cross?

 

[Heb 13:8]

I have tried for the life of me to understand your answer as if I was missing something. My conclusion is that you are doing nothing more than sidestepping and avoiding while attempting to appear pious.

No, I respond in love.

 

[Heb 13:8]

so what was it that was finished at the cross?

the forgiveness of sins, past present future

 

[Taken]

Thanks for clarifying.

Not at all.

I would disagree;
Salvation is Part of the Change a man receives....to forever be with God.

If the Lord gives a man the Gift...
And you say the man AFTER RECEIVING the GIFT, can reject God....

Then God is NOT Forever with that man...
Then He would be a liar.

If God IS Forever with that man....
Then He would be a liar...

Since those who reject Him, are forever SEPARATED from Him....without Him...

How do you reconcile this dilemma?

Not at all. After all, Christ called Judas as an apostle. It's Christ offering up a gift and somebody declining it.

Judas is an EXCELLENT example of what I was saying earlier....

Judas was a FOLLOWER of Jesus'. He was learning ABOUT Jesus, like the rest of the 11 men.

Any one of them, like Judas, or ALL 12 of them could have AT ANY TIME, like Judas, stopped Following Jesus.

Judas STOPPED following Jesus, and was NEVER SAVED.

The remaining 11 CONTINUED Following Jesus.....doubted at times, didn't understand,
Didn't even BELIEVE the women, when the 11 were told JESUS was not in the Tomb.

Difference with the 11?
They NEVER STOPPED FOLLOWING.

Difference with the 11?
They Confessed Belief, that Jesus IS the Christ.

Difference with the 11?
They BECAME SAVED and BORN AGAIN.

Judas, was never Forgiven, never crucified with Christ, never Received a new Heart, never had Salvation, and was never Born Again from Gods Seed, and never Received the Indwelling Holy Spirit.

^ WHICH ALL of those things ^ ... would have to BE "UNDONE"....Should a man Become Saved "and then reject God".

I find nothing in Scripture that speaks of "HOW such a thing is "UNDONE".

I do find, that such a thing IS Forever, and KEPT Forever, BY THE INDWELLING POWER OF GOD.

I'm not completely sure where you're confused here- my words must be falling short.

Incomplete. A Gift does not disappear...
Once RECEIVED...and a man does not "want" it ... Where does the GIFT GO?

And WHY did Gods Power WITHIN a man FAIL, to keep that man?

My disagreement with you is About...
Once a man "Receives the Gift"...it IS permanent.

You mentioned, the man might have a change of heart, some people have said men "change their mind"....

This is a basis on which some men claim...
To be exercising their FREEWILL.

Problem is: They exercised their Freewill, when they Confessed Belief.

If they were a LIAR, in their Confession;
They did not receive Salvation.

If they were speaking a Truth from their MIND....WHOOPS...they were not Saved.

If they were speaking a Truth from their Heart...WHOOPS...."that old heart that make their Confession...NO LONGER EXISTS...
It was circumcised, cut off, Replaced with a new Heart, and written in that Heart is the Word of God.

So BY what Means could a man EVEN reject the Gift of Salvation, after having RECEIVED the Gift?

This leads credence, to why men say; IF a man claims to have been Saved and now Rejects God...he was never Saved to begin with. Because there is no teaching in Scripture for Salvation to become "undone".

And another Point...that I mentioned earlier;
About men Judging men on WORKS....and trying to decide "IF" another man "IS" saved, BY what "works" he does.

It is not about WORKS....
ONE thing a SAVED man CAN NEVER DO, is Reject "GOD" and "CHRIST"....
That is how a man knows IF a man is SAVED of not; not by works.

Christ's gifts are part of Christ.

Thee Lord God's Gifts are "OFFERINGS".
From the beginning to the ending of Scriptures many things are revealed ABOUT God, to learn and know, and then a man FREEWILL Decision to "TAKE" His Gifts ... or NOT.
AND a Heartfelt Commitment TO the Lord IS REQUIRED...
And Forever.

Men are warned TO BE SURE, of their FREEWILL Choice to Choose God and Christ Jesus.

If a person leaves Christ, they also leave those gifts behind. The gift is with Christ and always will be because it's His. The man is no longer with Christ/Christ's gift because he choose to walk away.

Disagree. The Gift was Given. Are you saying the Lord TAKES BACK His Gift of Salvation?

"Thou shall have no God's before me"

Agree. And what IF a man does? Is this a man Who has received Salvation?

and "thou shall not commit adultery".

Agree. And what IF a person does? Cheats on their spouse....has that affected their relationship with God? No. If the man is saved, he is still saved. The person will still suffer the consequences for cheating.

However when a man IS WITH GOD, (saved and born again)...He shall not "commit adultery"... He cannot ever again Reject God.
Why not?
Because the person is so "strong willed" ?
No.
Because the POWER of God dwells in the person, and "HIS POWER FOREVER KEEPS THE MAN HIS POWER HAS SAVED UNTO HIM".

The unrepentant serial adulterer place love his idol (adultery and the chase) more than Christ. He has placed that idol before Christ and is no longer Christ's disciple. He has walked away to chasing his love of the flesh instead.

Cheating is not an Idol. If the man IS SAVED, he has not learned HOW TO "rely" on the POWER OF God within him. He continues to rely on his own "weak self".

It is not a "license to sin", as some say. It is rather a "weak person", who learned enough to become SAVED, believes in God and Christ, but does NOT KNOW HOW TO utilize the POWER IN THEM which is GREATER than their self...they suffer the consequences between two people that results from cheating.

There will be PLENTY of people who Believe, became Converted....and will ONLY receive, the Crown of Life....While there will be others, who Receive MULTIPLE crowns, and HIGH positions in the Lords Kingdom....Because they "worked" diligently and tirelessly Glorifying the Lords Name, while they Were on Earth.

God Forgives SIN...Jesus Christ Forgives SIN.
Because SIN is AGAINST God and Jesus Christ.

And THAT WHICH IS AGAINST God, AGAINST Jesus Christ....IS Disbelief in them.

That is Between an individual and God and Jesus Christ, and ONCE resolved, It's resolved.

My Perspective, which any point you can disagree with, and please include why.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Well, we are no longer under te law, less you preach a dirty gospel Jesus will say I never knew you Jon Doeb(

"Non-Jews", were never "under Jewish Law".

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Heb 13:8]

"Non-Jews", were never "under Jewish Law".

God Bless,
Taken

That's right, they're under condemnation of unbelief

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Salvation is Part of the Change a man receives....to forever be with God.

If the Lord gives a man the Gift...
And you say the man AFTER RECEIVING the GIFT, can reject God....

Then God is NOT Forever with that man...
Then He would be a liar.

Man can be forever with God, if they so choose to believe & accept the gift. If a man chooses to reject the gift (at any point), then they no longer have it (because they rejected it). It's really simple actually.

My disagreement with you is About...
Once a man "Receives the Gift"...it IS permanent.

You mentioned, the man might have a change of heart, some people have said men "change their mind"....

This is a basis on which some men claim...
To be exercising their FREEWILL.

Problem is: They exercised their Freewill, when they Confessed Belief. .

And they still have that freewill. It never goes away (which is a big difference when compared to OSAS).

 

[Heb 13:8]

Man can be forever with God, if they so choose to believe & accept the gift. If a man chooses to reject the gift (at any point), then they no longer have it (because they rejected it). It's really simple actually.

No, if they reject the gift they never had it to begin with

 

[quietthinker]

the forgiveness of sins, past present future

so when Jesus said to Peter, whoever you forgive will be forgiven and whoever you do not forgive they will not be forgiven. What did he have in mind there?
And who's sins were forgiven....the whole world or just a select group?

 

[quietthinker]

No, I respond in love.

No, I respond in love.

You still have not answered the original question sir. Do you need a refresher?