OSAS is the result of the finished work of the cross

[brakelite]

"And this is life eternal, that they might know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ Whom Thou has sent".
There is our assurance of salvation. Not the scripture that proclaims a truth, but the reality of our knowing God. A very real experiential relationship with our Creator. That is our assurance. That is our security, knowing Him, that He is faithful to fulfil all His promises toward His redeemed.
Some would say that is love. And they are correct. But love is not fully understood by many. Love does not coerce. Love leaves choices for those loved...even though those choices may lead to trouble. To deprive a loved one of choice, ceases to be love. We all have the power of choice. We can, if we are stupid enough, to fall foul of temptation and believe that present pleasures are worth more that future life. We may also choose to follow a god of our own making. We allow the things of this world to become idols. Like our favourite football team. Or food. Or entertainment. And we spend more time with that god than God. And in time god becomes everything, and God is left out in the cold. He will surely remind us of our folly. He will remonstrate with us through His servants...through His word...through the Spirit...but we still have the choice...repent or continue in our chosen path. We may grieve the Spirit until He finally and reluctantly leaves us to our decisions. He will not grant us life if we choose to reject Him.
I cannot imagine myself doing such a thing. After 40 or more years knowing my Saviour and learning to love Him and trust in His love and experiencing the many times He has cared for me and my loved ones, it seems repugnant in the extreme to think I could ever turn my back on Him. Yet I am human. The world has some very attractive stuff going on. The older I get the more aware I am of my own weaknesses...thus the more tightly I lay hold on Him who is able to save me to the uttermost. And I am confident that so long as I abide in Him, I am safe. I am always and most assuredly saved in that state of abiding, and in that state of relationship God has ordained that I be changed into the image of His Son. And the closer I grow to Him, the more ugly my carnal nature becomes. The more determined I am not to allow anything to entice me away from Him. Yet the choice remains. It always will. That is love. It is the inherent nature of marriage. If my partner of 40 years would choose for whatever reason to leave me...tell me my friends...what are my options other than plead with her to stay...tie her up in the basement...or let her go? What is a relationship whereby one partner is retained against their will?

 

[brakelite]

Not believing that its finished at the cross is the greatest delusion.

What is it exactly and precisely that you claim is finished? And how is that one aspect of our salvation which you claim is finished, influenced by the next phase of our salvation which continued in heaven, that is Christ's ministry as High Priest?
In the OT, what would have become of Israel had the priest slain the lamb, but not taken the blood into the sanctuary?

 

[amadeus]

Adam and Eve existed before Pentecost and God's seal, Eph 1:13-14. Planting the seed is bothering, I agree devil hates it

1 Cor 3 What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. 7So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. 9For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building.

Born Again
A - Admit you're a sinner
B - Believe that God raised Jesus from the dead
C - Confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord

You did not really answer my question which was: "What does it mean to be born again?"

What you did was provide the steps you have learned on who to become born again. That does not answer my question. I will go through it briefly as I understand it:

Adam and Eve were in the garden of Eden without sin... but they were able to sin and they and when they did they paid the price of sin:

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Rom 6:23

"And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Gen 2:16-17

"And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat." Gen 3:6

When they disobeyed God and ate that fruit they died. They were from that day dead to God. Being dead to God all of their children and children's were also born dead. This is why a person needs to be born again. God provided through Jesus and the Holy Ghost a renewed opportunity to become alive, to be born again to what Adam and Eve lost in the garden of Eden. So then... what did Jesus say?

"...I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10

Jesus came so that man who had been dead could Live... which means each one of us being already dead had to first be born again.

In the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve never ate of the Tree of Life when they had the chance. They chose rather to eat of that other tree [the tree of the knowledge of good and evil] which really was the tree of death. Jesus came so that people could not choose rightly and eat from the Tree of Life. He did not force feed them Life. That is not God's Way. Rather God sent Jesus to reopen that closed Gate/Door and to show people how to prepare themselves and walk through it and then to eat of the Tree of Life so that there would be no more death for them.

Don't try taking any shortcuts to Life. They are all dead end streets. We have to be born again and then using the tools God has provided prepare ourselves so that we can pass through the fire of the two edge sword [Gen 3:24] enter through the Gate/Door and partake of the fruit of the Tree of Life. Now we can do it right instead remaining in the death inherited from our first carnal parents. We can be born again, but don't stop when you only half way there.

 

[bbyrd009]

wut is that seed?

there was no 'seed' inferred in the post, Heb, what you are deeming a seed needs soil to go into, and we are talking about the soil, by analogy there, not the seed. It's all well and good to say "the seed got planted," but to then go on and infer that the seed will grow into a beautiful tree regardless of the "will" of the soil is just deception, see. No, believing is not all it takes, and no, Jesus is not ever going to pick up your cross for you nor change your mind for you. So "wut is that seed" is just impertinent, ok, it's another swing/miss on the premises, the seed is not relevant here

 

[Taken]

Man can be forever with God, if they so choose to believe & accept the gift. If a man chooses to reject the gift (at any point), then they no longer have it (because they rejected it). It's really simple actually.

Let me attempt to CLARIFY our differences.

There is a "Learning stage", in regard to "anything" for a person.

It begins with an "Introduction", then "Knowledge", and much later "Understanding", and then "confidence of Knowing", WHEN the Understanding is achieved.

You can apply that to: ANY Person, ANY topic.

THE Carnal MIND...IS AGAINST GOD.

The Carnal MIND, can trick, deceive, pretend they have an Introduction, Knowledge, Understanding, Confidence...(of ANY Topic)
AND can absolutely Convice OTHER MEN;
THEY ARE of a superb MIND, and a trustworthy SOURCE.

Regarding God, and His Word and His Power and Spiritual things...God IS the SOURCE...Period.

HIS BIG PLAN...HAS from the Beginning and IS to this Day and Forward....IS
Always the SAME.

FOR....MEN TO CHANGE...body, soul, spirit.

FOR....HIS Glory.

The MOST, prominate NEWS IS...
BY AND THROUGH, Jesus Christ's "OFFERING"

"IS"

A man "CAN" Decide "BY" the mans own "FREEWILL" TO TAKE and RECEIVE Jesus' OFFERING... OR NOT.

And they still have that freewill. It never goes away (which is a big difference when compared to OSAS).

A man has FREEWILL concerning WHAT?

Eat beans for supper? marry whom they choose? Hear Scripture or not? Buy a home? Exercise? Take drugs? Cheat? Lie? Steal? Kill someone? Run a stop sign? Play sports? Become Educated? Work? Sponge off others?
Travel? Etc. Etc. Etc......

Does that EVER CHANGE? Nope!
ALL men can "exercise their FREEWILL to do whatever they WANT to do".
And ALL men can "suffer the consequences OR enjoy the consequences" FOR WHAT they Freely Choose to do.

Concering a MAN MAKING A FREEWILLED CHOICE Concerining God....

Yes...a man CAN believe in God one day, and not the next...during his entire life time, the man can Freely dally back and forth, believe, not believe, believe, not believe...

Concerning a MAN MAKING A FREEWILLED CHOICE Concerning GOD and CHRIST JESUS..

Yes...a man CAN believe in God and Christ Jesus one day, and not the next...during his entire life time, the man can Freely dally believe, not believe, believe, not believe...

HOWEVER...should ANY MAN, Jew or Gentile...
Exercise "HIS OWN FREEWILL" TO ....
MAKE A "heartfelt TRUTHFUL CONFESSION TO the Lord" OF BELIEF IN GOD and CHrIST JESUS...

You seem to REJECT, the FACT, that that man;
1) "HAS" exercised His "freewill".
2) "HAS" "GIVEN" the Lord "AUTHORITY", "TO FOREVER" have that "AUTHORITY" over the man's BODY, SOUL, SPIRIT".

You seem to also REJECT, the FACT, that that man, NO LONGER "HAS" the "power" to FREELY walk away.

That mans BODY IS Crucified Dead.
That mans SOUL IS Restored and Saved.
That man HAS Gods Seed.
That mans SPIRIT IS reborn with Gods Seed.
That man HAS a NEW HEART.
That man HAS Gods word IN His NEW HEART.
That man HAS the POWER of Gods Holy Spirit within the man.

^ ALL of those ^ THINGS HAPPEN "INSTANTLY" "after a man EXERCISES his own heartfelt TRUTHFUL FREEWILL, in Agreement to Accept those things.

You are expressing...THOSE THINGS...after a man Freely chose to Accept those things...the "SAME MAN"...can THEN CHOOSE, to reject those things.

Please TELL ME HOW THAT IS POSSIBLE...

Because the scripture Teaches IT IS NOT POSSIBLE.

WHY is it NOT POSSIBLE?

BECAUSE....The man WHO Exercised his OWN FREEWILL, for the Lord God "TO CHANGE" the man...."GOD CHANGED"!!

Such a man .. IS NO LONGER, the "SAME MAN", who Chose God and Christ Jesus...

IOW...the MAN who Freely Chose for God to CHANGE HIM...That man is NO LONGER the "SAME MAN" ... TO "UNCHOOSE" God.

But YET you are saying, in essence he is the Same man, and can AFTER Becoming a NEW Creature, can once AGAIN (by his own freewill and power), BECOME AGAIN the Same OLD MAN. (Who is NOW spiritually Dead).

Please tell me WHAT Scripture teaches...the Power within a (spiritually Dead man) a (Saved man) can make that man Become Unsaved, AFTER having Become Saved.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Jane_Doe22]

You seem to REJECT, the FACT, that that man;
1) "HAS" exercised His "freewill".
2) "HAS" "GIVEN" the Lord "AUTHORITY", "TO FOREVER" have that "AUTHORITY" over the man's BODY, SOUL, SPIRIT".

You seem to also REJECT, the FACT, that that man, NO LONGER "HAS" the "power" to FREELY walk away.

I totally reject that above statements and don't find them factual at all.

Coming to Christ does not remove a man's freewill -- like checking yourself into jail with Christ as the jailer. That's completely backwards: coming to Christ is freedom to the captives. A freed captive has freewill. They can choose to come/stay with Christ, or not.

Because the scripture Teaches IT IS NOT POSSIBLE.

Completely disagree with you there. Scripture tells us how coming to Christ is freedom, and warns against falling away a million times over.

Such a man .. IS NO LONGER, the "SAME MAN", who Chose God and Christ Jesus...

And that freed captive has a choice: to stay with Christ or lock himself back up in jail. Always have a choice, God never removes it.

 

[Heb 13:8]

so when Jesus said to Peter, whoever you forgive will be forgiven and whoever you do not forgive they will not be forgiven. What did he have in mind there?
And who's sins were forgiven....the whole world or just a select group?

Past, present, future sins are forgiven to those who believe and confess, Rom 10:9. We forgive because our Father in heaven forgave us, unless you believe God throws His children into the lake of fire because of....

Eph 4 31Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice.

Nobudy on the forum would make it{ we are sealed until redemption..

Eph 4 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. 30And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 32Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.

 

[Heb 13:8]

What is it exactly and precisely that you claim is finished? And how is that one aspect of our salvation which you claim is finished, influenced by the next phase of our salvation which continued in heaven, that is Christ's ministry as High Priest?
In the OT, what would have become of Israel had the priest slain the lamb, but not taken the blood into the sanctuary?

Past, present, future sins are forgiven to those who believe and confess, Rom 10:9. We forgive because our Father in heaven forgave us, unless you believe God throws His children into the lake of fire because of....

Eph 4 31Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice.

Nobudy on the forum would make it{ we are sealed until redemption..

Eph 4 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. 30And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 32Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.

 

[Heb 13:8]

You did not really answer my question which was: "What does it mean to be born again?"

What you did was provide the steps you have learned on who to become born again. That does not answer my question. I will go through it briefly as I understand it:

Adam and Eve were in the garden of Eden without sin... but they were able to sin and they and when they did they paid the price of sin:

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Rom 6:23

"And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Gen 2:16-17

"And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat." Gen 3:6

When they disobeyed God and ate that fruit they died. They were from that day dead to God. Being dead to God all of their children and children's were also born dead. This is why a person needs to be born again. God provided through Jesus and the Holy Ghost a renewed opportunity to become alive, to be born again to what Adam and Eve lost in the garden of Eden. So then... what did Jesus say?

"...I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10

Jesus came so that man who had been dead could Live... which means each one of us being already dead had to first be born again.

In the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve never ate of the Tree of Life when they had the chance. They chose rather to eat of that other tree [the tree of the knowledge of good and evil] which really was the tree of death. Jesus came so that people could not choose rightly and eat from the Tree of Life. He did not force feed them Life. That is not God's Way. Rather God sent Jesus to reopen that closed Gate/Door and to show people how to prepare themselves and walk through it and then to eat of the Tree of Life so that there would be no more death for them.

Don't try taking any shortcuts to Life. They are all dead end streets. We have to be born again and then using the tools God has provided prepare ourselves so that we can pass through the fire of the two edge sword [Gen 3:24] enter through the Gate/Door and partake of the fruit of the Tree of Life. Now we can do it right instead remaining in the death inherited from our first carnal parents. We can be born again, but don't stop when you only half way there.

Right, what I'm saying is that non-osas confuse Rom 10:9 with the life long process of sanctification, discipline and godly sorrow. These things are a life long process. Believing in Rom 10:9 is a one time event

 

[Heb 13:8]

there was no 'seed' inferred in the post, Heb, what you are deeming a seed needs soil to go into, and we are talking about the soil, by analogy there, not the seed. It's all well and good to say "the seed got planted," but to then go on and infer that the seed will grow into a beautiful tree regardless of the "will" of the soil is just deception, see. No, believing is not all it takes, and no, Jesus is not ever going to pick up your cross for you nor change your mind for you. So "wut is that seed" is just impertinent, ok, it's another swing/miss on the premises, the seed is not relevant here

The seed is the indwelling Holy Spirit bbyrd, to keep it simple i suppose. get saved first, then pik up ur cross rite

Gal 3:19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator.

Gal 3:29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

1Pe 1:23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

1Jo 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

 

[bbyrd009]

get saved first, then pik up ur cross rite

ah no, not for me anyway, sorry.
But i really do wish you the best of luck in getting to heaven after you have died, the Death More Abundantly thing, ok, honest

 

[Taken]

I totally reject that above statements and don't find them factual at all.

That's okay by me.
However, for myself, I absolutely did exercise my freewill to Choose to believe IN God, IN Christ.

And I absolutely understood, I was in agreement with the Lord, that He would have Authority Over my Body, Soul, Spirit, and absolutely understand; By His Power...
He crucified by body, restored my soul, and quickened my spirit ONCE and forever.

Coming to Christ does not remove a man's freewill --

I didn't say it removes mans Freewill.
I said there is NO WAY for a man crucified with Christ, his soul restored, his spirit quickened...to become UNDONE.

Your teaching is that IT CAN BECOME UNDONE...No problem...Please reveal the Scripture of a Crucified, Saved, Quickened man...a New Creature....once again becoming the Old Creature.

like checking yourself into jail with Christ as the jailer.

I did not say that, so why keep using that as a basis for disagreement?

He shall be seated as KING of His KINGDOM.
His People shall certainly be UNDER His Authority..."If you think that is some sort of "JAIL", that is you, not me."

That's completely backwards: coming to Christ is freedom to the captives. A freed captive has freewill.

No it is not backwards.

The men OF the world are CAPTIVE to World Governments OF men..sinking IN Corruption.

The Lord shall RULE and REIGN over His Kingdom....VOID of Corruption.

I hardly call that a "Jail".

They can choose to come/stay with Christ, or not.

Of course, and I said nothing different.
Come / Go. Come / Go. Come / Go.....

When it becomes DIFFERENT is "WHEN" a VOW is made and I already explained that, and what Instantly happens.

SHOW a Scripture where A CONVERTED man, becomes Un-Converted. Where a NEW Creature AGAIN become the OLD Creataure.

Completely disagree with you there. Scripture tells us how coming to Christ is freedom, and warns against falling away a million times over.

Not sure your disagreement...
You are the one who saying "SOMEONE apparently believes coming to Christ is liken to a "jail".... so what? Why keep telling me you disagree with that?
I NEVER SAID THAT!

Of course coming to Christ, is setting a man at Liberty to Live forever, VOID of mans Corruption.

Uh Yes, there are warnings about falling away.....FALLING AwAY FROM wHAT?
AND When?... Please show a Scripture, that Falling Away, is in regard to a MAN ALREADY made a NEw CREATURE.

And that freed captive has a choice: to stay with Christ or lock himself back up in jail. Always have a choice, God never removes it.

Please show the Scripture that a man ALREADY Converted and made a NeW Creature can become Un-Converted and once again the OLD Creature.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Heb 13:8]

ah no, not for me anyway, sorry.

te gift is free though, no cigar
?

 

[Heb 13:8]

I totally reject that above statements and don't find them factual at all.

Coming to Christ does not remove a man's freewill -- like checking yourself into jail with Christ as the jailer. That's completely backwards: coming to Christ is freedom to the captives. A freed captive has freewill. They can choose to come/stay with Christ, or not.

Completely disagree with you there. Scripture tells us how coming to Christ is freedom, and warns against falling away a million times over.

And that freed captive has a choice: to stay with Christ or lock himself back up in jail. Always have a choice, God never removes it.

Satan has been perverting God's grace since the beginning of time, free will is just one more tactic of his..

Past, present, future sins are forgiven to those who believe and confess, Rom 10:9. We forgive because our Father in heaven forgave us, unless you believe God throws His children into the lake of fire because of....

Eph 4 31Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice.

Nobudy on the forum would make it{ we are sealed until redemption..

Eph 4 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. 30And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 32Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

(Aside here: I really appreciate the civil conversation we've been having. Thank you for it).

That's okay by me.
However, for myself, I absolutely did exercise my freewill to Choose to believe IN God, IN Christ.

Point of clarification: I 100% believe this statement of yours "However, for myself, I absolutely did exercise my freewill to Choose to believe IN God, IN Christ.". 100%.

And I absolutely understood, I was in agreement with the Lord, that He would have Authority Over my Body, Soul, Spirit, and absolutely understand; By His Power...
He crucified by body, restored my soul, and quickened my spirit ONCE and forever.

Seeking clarification of your beliefs here: do you believe a Christian is culpable for their actions? Particularly the things they do which are not align with Christ's ways?

(I'll address rest of your excellent post later, this clarification would help with that)

 

[brakelite]

Past, present, future sins are forgiven to those who believe and confess, Rom 10:9. We forgive because our Father in heaven forgave us, unless you believe God throws His children into the lake of fire because of....

Eph 4 31Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice.

Nobudy on the forum would make it{ we are sealed until redemption..

Eph 4 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. 30And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 32Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.

You need to go back somewhat to ear lier in the chapter to get some context...

KJV Ephesians 4
Live as God's People
17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But ye have not so learned Christ;

Notice what Paul is saying here. Don't walk as the gentiles walk... alienated from the life of God. Then he went on to describe all the things that characterise a life that separates someone from God. Lying, stealing etc etc etc. Paul is saying that Christians who practice such things are no different from unbelievers. They are not "saved". Paul is telling believers that they must put that life behind them. He wasn't giving them a choice... He quoted several of the commandments and several things Jesus spoke of in his sermons. A life of sin cancels any profession of belief.

 

[brakelite]

But @Heb 13:8 you didn't address my question as to the so called "finished work of the cross". I put it to you that whatever finished work you think you believe in regarding a person's ultimate Salvation, was not finished at the cross.

 

[mjrhealth]

But @Heb 13:8 you didn't address my question as to the so called "finished work of the cross". I put it to you that whatever finished work you think you believe in regarding a person's ultimate Salvation, was not finished at the cross.

Everything was done at the cross, but it takes "faith " to beielve it.

Jesus didnt say, when He comes gain will he find law abiding citizens upon the earth, not bible believing church going believers, He said

Luk_18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

and that is what is missing and all these posts are a testament to that.

 

[Taken]

(Aside here: I really appreciate the civil conversation we've been having. Thank you for it).

Ditto.

Point of clarification: I 100% believe this statement of yours "However, for myself, I absolutely did exercise my freewill to Choose to believe IN God, IN Christ.". 100%.

I had no doubt.

Seeking clarification of your beliefs here: do you believe a Christian is culpable for their actions?

Yes. A Person, saved or not, is responsible for their "actions": person to person.

Jesus says; Love all people.
Well, Okay...Can a person do that WITHOUT God, WITHOUT Christ Jesus' power within them? I say no.

The World; People "OF" the World, "without" God, "without" Christ Jesus; "promote"...to be part of their "organized group" (whatever it may be called); to LOATH, others who will not Stand with them, in "their" ideals and beliefs. (It goes on daily, politically, racially, gender, sports, age wise, religiously, etc.).

Jesus came to cause Division, Between those "with" Him and those "without" Him...
But "Loathing" others, was NOT part of His teaching, to be reflective of His Division.

Particularly the things they do which are not align with Christ's ways?

I Believe, perhaps differently than most...
When I elected to "make my STANDING with God, with the Lord Christ Jesus", it was A Conviction, Between the Lord and Myself.

My Sin was being naturally Born "Against Him"...(I had no choice at that time. I didn't know About Him, Follow Him, Love Him, Believe Him, etc.)
Further, Because of ^ those things, everything I did, was without Him, thus, my SOUL within me, Like my body, became Corrupt.

It was being "introduced", hearing, learning, beginning to believe, being interested to keep learning, keep reading... that started my journey Toward preparing me to, to Know About Him, to a point of exercising my Freewill, to BE WITH Him, and He WITH me.

^ THAT....is no different, than anyone else's journey. It is DURING that journey, people get involved, in learning About God...

Some "are raised" by parents, who "take" their children to HEAR.
Some "have friends" who invite them, to go "HEAR".
Some "have a desire" and delve in to scriptures or go to a church on their own.
Some "hear for awhile", get busy with their life", and fade off from "continuing" to Hear.
Some "are influenced by "others" who speak against God, and simply agree with "the others" reasoning thoughts.
Some "dally" back and forth, hear for awhile, do other things, hear some more, do other things.

Point being....ALL of those people, "HEARING", at whatever time, for whatever length of time....were/are being "ENLIGHTENED" ... which simply means;
God IS LIGHT, His Word is Truth...and IF His Word is "entering into" ANY person;
That person, IS receiving the Word of God.

And, Any Person, receiving the Word of God,
(From wherever; a minister, the Bible, a friend, a stranger, etc.)

That person "IS", being given measure of "FAITH" from the Spirit of God.

(And WHY, Scripture teaches, SPEAK and SPREAD His "WORD" to others.)

To another Point....I have NOT mentioned ONE of (^ those), people having had MADE A COMMITMENT. I have simply be talking about them....
1) hearing, learning About thee Lord God
2) them receiving Enlightment
3) them receiving measures of Faith

Any one of those (^ those) people, AT any time, can Freely ELECT/CHOOSE to DO the exact SAME for 10 years, 50 years, or any number of years during their own life-time.

Also Any one of those (^those) people, AT any time, can Freely ELECT/CHOOSE to Completely REJECT God, REJECT the Lord Jesus.....For the rest of their ENTIRE natual life.

^. THAT IS a person WHO has "Fallen From Faith"
^ THAT IS a person WHO has "Lost his Salvation".

The Falling from Faith...IS because the person WAS being enlightened; WAS receiving measures of Faith from God; and NO LONGER is being enlightened, or Receiving measures of Faith from God.

The Losing of Salvation...IS Because;
Salvation IS A "GIFT that is OFFERED".
A man MUST "TAKE" the Offered Gift, BEFORE, the man POSSESSES the Gift.

IF the man NEVER "TAKES" the offered Gift;
In essence that man "HAS LOST the offered Gift".

The Fact is... Jesus possess the Gift of Salvation, and has Offered it to ANYONE "WILLING" to TAKE the Gift.

The WARNING is...Men do not KNOW when they shall physically die; And IF a man DOES NOT TAKE THE OFFERED GIFT OF SALVATION; And physically Dies....THEY will have LOST (their opportunity) to Have Taken the Offered Gift.

If you take a quick look back, at all ^ those people I mentioned.....NOT ONCE did I mention ANY ONE of them....having had MADE A COMMITMENT.

And that IS ANOTHER POINT..
Hearing, Learning, believing, following along.......are all part of finding out ABOUT the Lord. They are NOT commitments. Any man at Any time can Walk Away, and endanger LOSING the Gift of Salvation the Lord is OFFERING TO THEM.
(Thus the Express Warnings in Scripture About Losing ones Salvation).

Once a man IS Prepared...
Been Diligent, learning, following, hearing, reading....Remember, those efforts of the man, gains the man "measures" of Faith from God. Be diligent, continue....AND?
Those "measures" of Faith are INCREASING.

The FAITH "increased", gets to a point, the man himself, IS ready to COMMIT. And the man Chooses the Time, he is WILLING to call on the Lord, and Confess His Belief.

(Just to note. The human has a "natural" spirit. Which is simply "his natural truth", in his "heart". Not his MIND, his heart.
It is that "natural spirit /truth", the Lord IS giving "measures of Faith".)

It is from that mans "natural spirit, being given measures of Faith from God"...FROM WHICH, the man MAKES His Confession OF Belief, TO THE Lord.

THAT ^ IS the Lords WAY.

Do men EVER make Confessions of Belief....FROM THEIR "MINDS"? Yep.
Do they make an Appointment and Become baptized IN WATER? Yep
Does everyone in the Congregation Believe the person is Baptized IN the Spirit of God?
Yep
Does the person tell other people they are Saved, Born Again, Baptized In Chirst Jesus?
Yep

Are they? Nope.

Can such a person, participate in Church events, dinners, traditions, etc. ? Yep.

Can such a person, a year, or two, or ten years laters......announce they REJECT God?
REJECT Christ Jesus? Yep

Is it puzzling? Yep
Does it "appear like", they RECEIVED SALVATION, and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit......AND THEN "LOST" it? Yep.

DID THEY? Nope.

Do some people say: Well, uh, "you can not LOSE Salvation, until AFTER you have "RECEIVE" Salvation....."BECAUSE, you can not LOSE what you never Possessed" ?

Yes, some say that. But Scripture does not.

Salvation IS OFFERED to the World.
It is RECEIVED unto a person...
God WAY, NOT by way of a mans MINDS thoughts.

Plainly, IF a man does NOT TAKE the OFFERING....that man Loses the Salvation that was OFFERED to him.

Receiving Salvation; is between an individual mans Faith in his Heart, his freewill Choice to Commit through Confession to the Lord and the Lord Jesus GIVING the man Salvation the Lord has Offered.

Alter calls, a man announcing, church accepting, a congregation accepting....are merely, initial indications the man has received the Lords Gift of Salvation.

The ONE THING, you will NEVER hear A Saved and Born Again man SAY....is that;
He Rejects God....or Rejects Jesus is the Christ.

Such a man that CAN SAY THAT....has Never Received Salvation or the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

God Bless,
Merry Christmas
Taken

(I'll address rest of your excellent post later, this clarification would help with that)

Okie dokie.

 

[Mjh29]

Eat beans for supper? marry whom they choose? Hear Scripture or not? Buy a home? Exercise? Take drugs? Cheat? Lie? Steal? Kill someone? Run a stop sign? Play sports? Become Educated? Work? Sponge off others?
Travel? Etc. Etc. Etc......

Does that EVER CHANGE? Nope!
ALL men can "exercise their FREEWILL to do whatever they WANT to do".
And ALL men can "suffer the consequences OR enjoy the consequences" FOR WHAT they Freely Choose to do.

I agree. This is what I would call free agency. Not free will. But still, I get the point.