The Devil's Lies Must be Exposed - Do Not Be Deceived

[AlertChristians]

Thus proper translation should be:

70 Jesus answered them, "Did I not choose you twelve, and one of you is an enemy?" 71 But He spoke of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for this one was about to betray him, being one of the twelve.

Using the word enemy does not exclude Judas from being a devil, nor does being one of the twelve who was about to betray the Lord.

The Holy Bible accounts for supernatural patentage and shapeshifting. Judas was a devil, an enemy, a shapeshifter, a son of perdition.

 

[Soverign Grace]

The loss of a pet almost is as bad as loss of a person. The house is lonely without her and I keep thinking she's going to walk up to me. I know I'll see her again - it's only temporary but it still hurts.

 

[Soverign Grace]

Actually, the only reason I brought it up was to show the unreasonable assumption that simply because Jesus addressed Judas in the way he did, doesn't necessarily mean H e was an actual devil. Shapeshifting? Really? Jesus did not choose a devil to be a part of His inner circle of friends. Through self interest and greed, Judas invited the devil to work through him until he became so deceived and ambitious that the devil and he became one voice. Judas misunderstood Jesus' mission. Like the other disciples he expected an early kingdom and was willing to force Jesus's hand into taking the throne when he realised his ambitions and hopes were going south. His 'repentance' may have revealed his realisation that his hopes were vain, but his suicide revealed that he wasn't willing to accept the alternative... Humility and surrender to Jesus as saviour.

As for Paul's description of the coming Antichrist as being the Son of perdition, doesn't make Judas the Antichrist, but it reveals that the Antichrist has similar ambitions, and similar characteristics. Such as treacherously giving the Master away with a kiss. It is one more evidence we have that the Antichrist rose from within the church to replace Christ, rather than what many believe to be an enemy of the church attacking it from without.

Have you thought of teaching a bible study here?

 

[Stranger]

As for Paul's description of the coming Antichrist as being the Son of perdition, doesn't make Judas the Antichrist, but it reveals that the Antichrist has similar ambitions, and similar characteristics. Such as treacherously giving the Master away with a kiss. It is one more evidence we have that the Antichrist rose from within the church to replace Christ, rather than what many believe to be an enemy of the church attacking it from without.

The anti-christ cannot rise from the Church as the Church has been raptured out by that time. Perhaps he will have something to do with the apostate church which is left behind, but that is just a religious group, not the Church of Jesus Christ.

anti-christ is more 'anti' in reference to Israel, not the Church. The Jews will be ready to receive him whereas they rejected the true Christ.

Stranger

 

[VictoryinJesus]

See, you are taking the translation of "repented" here in the purely religious sense we use the term today. But in common usage this word meant not some formal repentance but a simple turning of mind. This is why, if you were to check Liddell-Scott (the premier Greek to English Dictionary), both the translations of "repent" and "regret" can be found. Also, "to feel sorrow." It doesn't automatically refer to some form of interaction with God like our modern perceptions of the word "repent" presuppose.

I’m pretty sure you are making ‘repent’ purely religious by attaching all kinds of hoopla to it that has to meet your expectations or standards. “But in common usage this word meant not some formal repentance but a simple turning of mind.” Judas threw the silver back at them. Not enough turning of the mind for you? Silver(blood money) that then went to purchase the potters field(of blood). Who is the potter that molds the clay pot into a vessel? Who breaks the vessel into pieces to then put it back together as a vessel of use?

Again, Victory, we are getting lost in semantics here. When I say "brings the Spirit of God on the scene," I am not referring to the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I am referring to the presence of God, such as comes upon people when they receive Jesus in their hearts, and they suddenly feel like the weight of sin is being lifted off their shoulders.

Peter denied Him. They all hid fearful. The comforter had not come yet.

The issue here is to what extent did he communicate his sin to God or simply complain to the Pharisees that they had led him to sin. If I say to you, "I sinned," that does not necessarily mean I have repented unto God. It simply means I am communicating to you that I recognized I messed up somehow. So too was this the case in what Judas was saying to the Pharisees. His communication in verse 4 was to them, not God.

How do you know it was just an complaint. You are the judge?

Matthew 26:22
[22] And they were exceeding sorrowful, and began every one of them to say unto him, Lord, is it I?

Matthew 26:25
[25] Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said.

What happened to we are not to judge another man’s servant?

If he had gone to God, no. But again, Victory, you are ignoring the elephant in the room. If you believe he went to God, repented before Him, and entered into right relationship with Him, receiving forgiveness for His sins, why would he then have turned around and hung himself?

And you don’t know either. You are projecting your own desires onto Judas that He pays miserably when it is not your call to make. Judas didn’t betray you...what Judas did was for your good. Glorying in Judas’s rotten flesh which sets you up as better because your flesh is not rotten(vile) or never has been? When you had nothing to do with being ‘chosen’ and shown mercy. If we could take a peek in everyones closet; I’m sure we would see we all need mercy and grace.

Not to get into a broad subject but are you saying that every person whose flesh has gotten the better of them can not possibly have the Spirit. I knew a young man ...eighteen years old. He drove out on a back street and shot himself in the head. What about all those suffering from a terminal illness that just can’t get past the depression or suffering?

 

[LC627]

“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.“ 1 John 3:10

Only two types of people in this world. Sons of God or of the devil.

 

[CoreIssue]

Have you thought of teaching a bible study here?

A Seventh-day Adventist Bible teacher here? No.

 

[Willie T]

A Seventh-day Adventist Bible teacher here? No.

I think he is one of the more capable people here for the task.

Seventh-day Adventism (SDA) follows most of the beliefs of conventional conservative Christianity including creation in six days, original sin, the virgin birth of Jesus Christ and the existence of Satan, just to name a few.

But there are some beliefs that set SDA apart from other Protestant Christians. Below is a list of five of those beliefs:

1. Ellen White Theories: Ellen White is recognized by the Seventh-day Adventist church as having received the gift of prophecy as outlined in Ephesians 4 and 1 Corinthians 12. SDA sees the written works by Ellen White as "a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction," according to their fundamental beliefs, as listed by Adventist.org.


2. Resurrection: SDA believes when a person dies, they remain unconscious until they are resurrected. Eternal life is a gift which God only grants to those who have accepted the sacrifice of Christ on their behalf. By an act of mercy on the part of God, the wicked will be destroyed by fire. Thus, Seventh-day Adventists do not believe that a person goes to heaven for an eternal reward or to hell for never-ending torture immediately upon death.

3. Investigative judgment: SDA believe in salvation by faith in Christ alone. Good works are seen as evidence of that faith. The investigative or pre-advent judgment, which takes place in heaven before the return of Jesus, reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Jesus and will have a part in the first resurrection and who among the living are abiding in Christ and are ready for translation. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus.

4. The Second Coming: SDA believes that the second coming of Christ is near and believers should be ready for it at all times. When Christ does come, the righteous Christians who had previously died will be resurrected at that time and taken to heaven. For the following 1,000 years, only Satan and his fallen angels will be living on earth. A second resurrection will occur at the end of that period. At that time Satan and his evil angels, as well as the wicked, will be destroyed. The righteous will then return to a cleansed earth, and establish the New Jerusalem.

5. Lifestyle: When it comes to lifestyle, Seventh-day Adventists hold the belief that the human body is the temple of God and thus should be cared for properly. Because of this, Adventists abstain from harmful substances like alcohol and tobacco, and maintain a vegetarian diet. Abortion is acceptable only when a woman's life is in danger, and in cases where a pregnancy poses a serious moral dilemma.

What do you see as any particular problem with someone holding those beliefs leading Bible Study on this forum? No one can teach unless they believe exactly as you do, *CoreIssue*?

 

[Soverign Grace]

A Seventh-day Adventist Bible teacher here? No.

What I've looked at that he has supplied has seemed biblically sound. I don't even agree with everything that the pastor of our bible study says but I take what helps me and file at the back of my mind things the pastor says that don't seem to click or that I don't agree with.

 

[Willie T]

What I've looked at that he has supplied has seemed biblically sound. I don't even agree with everything that the pastor of our bible study says but I take what helps me and file at the back of my mind things he says that don't seem to click or that I don't agree with.

Exactly.

 

[Helen]

Luke 22:3 and John 13:27 indicate Judas was not a devil when Jesus chose him.

Luke 22:3 Then Satan entered into Judas called Iscariot, who was of the number of the twelve.
John 13:27 And after the sop, then entered Satan into him. Jesus therefore saith unto him, What thou doest, do quickly.

It seems his own selfish thinking and greedy attitude allowed Satan to enter an otherwise "righteous" man that Jesus had chosen and trained for years.

Sorry I am late to this thread...and pages back at the beginning of this thread.

Someone had to 'do it' , someone had to be the betrayer for silver ..
as prophesied in the OT . If it wasn't Judas it would have been one of the others of the twelve...he was obviously the weakest link.

I actually flip-flop on his final end. 'For me' court is still out concerning him...I can't say either way.

I am sure that many pages ahead, this thread is not still talking of Judas. Apologies again.

 

[Hidden In Him]

You are projecting your own desires onto Judas... Judas didn’t betray you.

What on earth?... Victory, I may respond to all this, but in all honesty it's not really worth it. Why is this matter of believing that Judas repented so important to you? Before I go much further I would need to know.

 

[Helen]

Victory, Judas could have been included in those promises if he had repented, but he didn't.

True his 'spiritual' end is not mentioned in scripture...but can we really say with confidence that he did not... we have no idea what he was saying to God when he climbed up to hang himself...he sure wasn't 'happy' right there , or victorious in what he had done. Right?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Not to get into a broad subject but are you saying that every person whose flesh has gotten the better of them can not possibly have the Spirit. I knew a young man ...eighteen years old. He drove out on a back street and shot himself in the head. What about all those suffering from a terminal illness that just can’t get past the depression or suffering?

Aha... maybe this is it right here. Is this what is driving the conversation? Not "judging" you if you admit this. Just wanting to know why all the concern.

 

[Helen]

I know most of us love the idea of vengeance in the Bible, and we almost pray for our enemies to "get theirs" (though we are told to do just the opposite), and even long for the day we can ride a white horse with Jesus, slaughtering "all those bad people" with a huge sword. And I am afraid we deeply desire to be assured that Judas is burning for all Eternity. But, is that Jesus' way?

LOL ...I didn't know that we agreed on so much!!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

What on earth?... Victory, I may respond to all this, but in all honesty it's not really worth it. Why is this matter of believing that Judas repented so important to you? Before I go much further I would need to know.

Luke 7:41-43
[41] There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty. [42] And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most? [43] Simon answered and said, I suppose that he , to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.

 

[Hidden In Him]

True his 'spiritual' end is not mentioned in scripture...but can we really say with confidence that he did not... we have no idea what he was saying to God when he climbed up to hang himself...he sure wasn't 'happy' right there , or victorious in what he had done. Right?

I suppose, Helen. But the problem is that I come at this argument from the angle of distinguishing what two different spirits will do to a man. She seems to be arguing that since Pentecost had not yet come that the presence of God could not come upon a man, but this isn't so (too many scriptures to post). But my position is that the Presence of God comes upon a man when He repents, and where the Presence of God is there is no precedence in scripture for Him driving people to commit suicide. It insinuates Judas was trying to pay for his own sins, which is blasphemous. Demonic spirits, on the other hand, are well known to drive men to commit suicide, so I don't see him as having given himself to God but rather, overcome with grief, to the spirits who deceived him.

I truly don't want to offend anyone about those who may have committed suicide, and I honesty don't judge every human being over that. But I have been suicidal at times in my life, yet I never was able to get close to carrying it out because I knew I had a call on my life, and my life was not my own...

 

[Hidden In Him]

P.S. Sorry about the typos. I think I have it cleaned up now.

 

[Willie T]

To me, there isn't too much importance in whether or not Judas "repented." What I find of essence is that none of us allow ourselves to presume to jump to an "all knowing" decision, one way or the other.

It seems to be a thing of pretty unreasonable importance to many of us that we be able to say with total certainty that WE KNOW the absolute truth about whatever may be under discussion at any given time. It is like some of us feel we are not Spiritual, or are un-Christian unless we can claim that POV.

 

[Helen]

No. But He refused to repent. If he had repented of what he did rather than take his life in his own hands, he would have been forgiven. But he didn't do that. He considered himself doomed, which was again faithlessness on his part, just as many of his other actions were, including the betrayal. He thought he was turning in a sinner.

I usually agree with you on most things...but I can't on this...
We cannot be so sure about another persons heart.

I have written this before so sorry for the repeat. I know of two lovely men. Both wonderful preachers...saved and touch hundreds of lives.
One back when we were still in England in the 70's and one over here, not as long ago. Both fell in a time of weakness , both fell.

Both committed suicide in anguish of soul, believing that they had moved beyond redemption by this sin.
My hubby and I spent hours with both. Both were so plagued by the chattering of the Enemy in their ears they could not hear our words or Gods. Repent? They were totally broken, they could not believe that God could possibly forgive them. Neither had sinned as much as King David had...yet they could not grasp that if God accepted Davids repentance He would just as much accept theirs.
The demons were doing an number on both...both stopped eating.
"The wonderful glorious Church" of God, had totally forsaken both and cut them off.
We prayed, we stayed, we tried...

We heard later that both died at their own hand. ( but actually I will say...killed by devils...like the old voodoo stuff, it you believe they have power, then you have given them power...and these men believed the devils would get them and drag them to hell. )

Two men at different times of life, two men in different continents , two men hearing the same old lies from the devils..and both believing.

Both so obviously loved God, but believed the devils lies that He could not long love them. It was heartbreaking. And they were heartbroken.

I 100% expect to see them in the kingdom.