Limited Atonement VS Universal Atonement

[justbyfaith]

He gives us one heart and one way, that we may fear Him for ever...therefore we do not need to maintain that fear as the fear of the LORD is something that is placed in our hearts by the Holy Ghost who has sealed us unto the day of redemption.

God is the One who maintains us in our faith...Psalms 16:5.

 

[Heb 13:8]

You’re missing the entire point of Rom. 8 – which corresponds with John 10:28.

Ah yes, the sheep that are being slaughtered by false prophets day and night

Jhn 10:27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

Rom 8:36 As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."

 

[Heb 13:8]

WRONG.

Works are a REQUIREMENT of faith – not just as after-effect.
James rives this point home in chapter 2 of his Epistle over and over again. They are as must a basic element of faith as 1+1 equals 2. James, undet the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, tells his readers that you CANNOT have true faith without works (James 2:14-26).

Anything less makes you no better off than the DEMONS (James 2:19).

BOL, works are a requirement of faith to produce Godly righteousness, not to save yourself with your relgion

 

[Heb 13:8]

If you think water is "unnecessary", then YES, you have misinterpreted, indeed . . .

H2O baptism is only proving your outward faith that is already in you through Holy Spirit baptism, which is inward. H2O is not a necessity to become born again. maybe it;s time to leave church and accept Jesus

We are fools for Christ, but you are so wise in Christ! We are weak, but you are strong! You are honored, we are dishonored!

 

[Heb 13:8]

Yes - IF they maintain that fear.
CONTEXT, son . . .

Fear that comes from a friend, not a foe. A friend that keeps His promises to the uttermost

31What then shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?

35, 38-39 Who shall separate us from the love (agape) of Christ? Shall trouble or distress or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love (agape) of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

8Love (agape) never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be restrained; where there is knowledge, it will be dismissed.

And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is the pledge of our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession, to the praise of His glory.

 

[CoreIssue]

The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 1167 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
deiliva from (1169)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Deilia None
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
di-lee'-ah Noun Feminine
Definition

1. timidity, fearfulness, cowardice

 

[BreadOfLife]

He gives us one heart and one way, that we may fear Him for ever...therefore we do not need to maintain that fear as the fear of the LORD is something that is placed in our hearts by the Holy Ghost who has sealed us unto the day of redemption.

God is the One who maintains us in our faith...Psalms 16:5.

No, God gives us the MEANS to remain faithful.
He doesn't do it FOR us.

That is NOT faith - it's coersion . . .
. . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Fear that comes from a friend, not a foe. A friend that keeps His promises to the uttermost

31What then shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?

35, 38-39 Who shall separate us from the love (agape) of Christ? Shall trouble or distress or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love (agape) of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

8Love (agape) never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be restrained; where there is knowledge, it will be dismissed.

And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is the pledge of our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession, to the praise of His glory.

AGAIN - nothing can separate us from the love of God, but ourselves.
Notice that Romans 8 does NOT mention this - because, as I have shown - there are many other verses that say born again believers CAN walk away from Him.

 

[BreadOfLife]

H2O baptism is only proving your outward faith that is already in you through Holy Spirit baptism, which is inward. H2O is not a necessity to become born again. maybe it;s time to leave church and accept Jesus

We are fools for Christ, but you are so wise in Christ! We are weak, but you are strong! You are honored, we are dishonored!

No – Water Baptism is REQUIRED of us (Matt. 8:19, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, 1 Pet. 3:21).

There is NO indication that the Ethiopian Eunuch in Acts 8 received the Holy Spirit until AFTER he was BAPTIZED.

 

[BreadOfLife]

BOL, works are a requirement of faith to produce Godly righteousness, not to save yourself with your relgion

They are a basic ELEMENT of faith - just as hydrogen is to water.

 

[justbyfaith]

No, God gives us the MEANS to remain faithful.
He doesn't do it FOR us.

That is NOT faith - it's coersion . . .
. . .

Again, if you don't want to remain in the faith, then by all means leave....no one is stopping you...I would conclude that you simply were never the good soil in the parable of the sower (Matthew 13:1-23, Mark 4:1-20, Luke 8:4-15)...

Because those designated the good soil, from my perspective, are the elect, who were foreknown, predestinated, justified, and glorified (as good as done)...Romans 8:30.

 

[justbyfaith]

AGAIN - nothing can separate us from the love of God, but ourselves.
Notice that Romans 8 does NOT mention this - because, as I have shown - there are many other verses that say born again believers CAN walk away from Him.

Technically, we can leave the fold, I will give you that. Therefore I suppose that the insane person can lose their salvation; because anyone who truly took part in all that Christ has to offer them, understanding the consequences of leaving, would have to be insane to do so.

But arguing from the perspective that most people who get born again are sane, I do not see the majority of those who are saved, losing their salvation by walking away from it.

Another point is that "losing it" is not something that can happen. You can not set your salvation on the table and then forget where you put it, so that you do not have it any more. You would have to deliberately walk away from it knowing all of its benefits...not very likely in my opinion.

 

[justbyfaith]

No – Water Baptism is REQUIRED of us

As a matter of fact it is...and it must be in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins (Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39, Romans 8:30; Acts of the Apostles 4:10-12).

Baptizing in the titles of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost simply won't cut it...it must be in the only name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. Because you are saying that baptism is a requirement for salvation...therefore since it is only the name of Jesus that saves...it must be in the name of Jesus.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Because those designated the good soil, from my perspective, are the elect, who were foreknown, predestinated, justified, and glorified (as good as done)...Romans 8:30.

And therein lies your ENTIRE problem.
It's not YOUR perpective that counts but the perspective of the Holy Spirit . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

As a matter of fact it is...and it must be in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins (Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39, Romans 8:30; Acts of the Apostles 4:10-12).

Baptizing in the titles of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost simply won't cut it...it must be in the only name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. Because you are saying that baptism is a requirement for salvation...therefore since it is only the name of Jesus that saves...it must be in the name of Jesus.

WRONG.
That is NOT what Jesus Himself taught (Matt. 28:19).

 

[justbyfaith]

Also, concerning "losing your salvation" you have to realize that salvation is a Person who will come and find you...

God loves us!

I am certainly not going to accuse Him of rape if He were to even tackle me in order to prevent me from walking over the edge of a cliff where there is lava burning over the edge. I would rather be like, "Wow! Thank You for saving my life!" as soon as my eyes were opened to the fact.

 

[justbyfaith]

WRONG.
That is NOT what Jesus Himself taught (Matt. 28:19).

Nevertheless, Jesus taught that He would send the Holy Spirit to tell us the things that the disciples were unable to bear Him telling them when He was walking the earth (John 16:12-13)...so then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, told them to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins...and later that the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth is the only name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved...you have to deal with the fact that this is what the holy scripture says.

 

[justbyfaith]

And therein lies your ENTIRE problem.
It's not YOUR perpective that counts but the perspective of the Holy Spirit . . .

From the perspective of the Holy Spirit also; for He is the author of Romans 8:30!

For I have gotten my perspective from Him.

Again, if you don't want to remain in the faith, then by all means leave....no one is stopping you...I would conclude that you simply were never the good soil in the parable of the sower (Matthew 13:1-23, Mark 4:1-20, Luke 8:4-15)...

Because those designated the good soil, from my perspective, are the elect, who were foreknown, predestinated, justified, and glorified (as good as done)...Romans 8:30.

 

[amadeus]

He gives us one heart and one way, that we may fear Him for ever...therefore we do not need to maintain that fear as the fear of the LORD is something that is placed in our hearts by the Holy Ghost who has sealed us unto the day of redemption.

God is the One who maintains us in our faith...Psalms 16:5.

Yes, God maintains us in faith so long as we trust Him. Real believers who get weary in well doing can and do come up against trials they are unprepared for... Their laziness has led them to a lack of trust in God. This can happen to anyone who loses that initial trust.

"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths." Prov 3:5-6

 

[BreadOfLife]

Technically, we can leave the fold, I will give you that. Therefore I suppose that the insane person can lose their salvation; because anyone who truly took part in all that Christ has to offer them, understanding the consequences of leaving, would have to be insane to do so.

But arguing from the perspective that most people who get born again are sane, I do not see the majority of those who are saved, losing their salvation by walking away from it.

Another point is that "losing it" is not something that can happen. You can not set your salvation on the table and then forget where you put it, so that you do not have it any more. You would have to deliberately walk away from it knowing all of its benefits...not very likely in my opinion.

Nobody said that the “intelligent” or “sane” ones leave.

I agree with you – you would HAVE to be insane – or just downright evil to walk away from Christ.
Unfortunately, there are MANY who will walk away from Him.