Who is the Whore of babylon

[Marymog]

The subject is whether or not the RCC is the pillar and ground of truth. Do the called out of Yeshua lie through their teeth to cover their sins?

If not the CC then which Church?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

Not true nonsense lie; they all said they were guided by the Scriptures.

Dear friend,

You do not believe they were not guided by the Holy Spirit.....neither do I. With that said why should we believe anything they taught about scripture? Wouldn't all their teachings be heretical if they were not guided by the Spirit and only guided by their personal beliefs and interpretations?

You should read scripture: 2 Peter 1:20

I sincerely hope you will give me a public apology since you publically called me a liar:

The Holy Ghost has called me by the gospel and illuminated me with his gifts and sanctified and preserved me in the true faith...Martin Luther

For Scripture is the school of the Holy Spirit, in which, as nothing is omitted that is both necessary and useful to know, so nothing is taught but what is expedient to know. Therefore we must guard against depriving believers of anything disclosed about predestination in Scripture, lest we seem either wickedly to defraud them of the blessing of their God or to accuse and scoff at the Holy Spirit for having published what it is in any way profitable to suppress....The grace of God has no charms for men till the Holy Spirit gives them a taste for it..... The Spirit of God who acts upon you is the helper of those who act. .....John Calvin

Almighty, eternal and merciful God, whose Word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path, open and illuminate our minds, that we may purely and perfectly understand thy Word.....Ulrich Zwingli

I patiently await your apology.

Patient Mary

 

[Marymog]

Funny how you talk about "teaching", when I was forced to attend Catholic "masses" I went, did not understand one single thing as it was NOT teaching. Even the Bereans knew enough to check the scriptures...I take what NO man says as complete truth UNTIL I hear different through my own discernment. If all you want to do is debate and nitpick at everyone's faith on this board...why don't you stick with the debate forum...are you afraid to debate "real" debaters? Your arrogance will NEVER bring someone to the CC or God at all. So, why are you even on here, can't be to actually learn as you already know it all so why? It is God who changes us and leads us and He knows every one of us and our heart...you are placing yourself in the Throne of God by all of your judgings.
Good day to you.

Proverbs 12:23
A shrewd man keeps his knowledge to himself, but a foolish heart proclaims its folly.

Proverbs 15:1-3
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger.

Hi Nancy,

You take what no man says as complete truth until YOU hear different through my own discernment? Did you know that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own private interpretation? (2 Peter 1:20)

The open-minded Bereans (who were Jews) were willing and eager to examine the Scriptures and see if what Paul was saying was true. The Thessalonians forced Paul to flee Berea even though he had proved from the Scriptures that Jesus is the Christ. None of that has ANYTHING to do with YOU interpreting scripture until you hear different through your own discernment. I refer you back to 2 Peter 1:20.

I feel bad for you that your parents failed you and they didn't properly teach you the Catholic faith when you were a young lady. Don't blame it on The Church.

Don't mistake arrogance for confidence. I am confident I am professing The Truth.

Have you been to the debate forum lately? I have multiple post's on there. You should do your research before making such a statement.

Thank you for your Christian attitude and asking me why I am here. This is a Christian forum...Isn't it? I am a Christian so that is why I am here. I am also here to bring the Truth of what The Church teaches. No one on here can teach me the Truth....only the Church can which is the pillar and foundation of truth.

By you own admittance (...I take what NO man says as complete truth UNTIL I hear different through my own discernment..) are you not here to teach all of us YOUR discernment of Scripture?

I don't judge....The Church does that: Matthew 18:17.

Mary

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Dear friend,

You do not believe they were not guided by the Holy Spirit.....neither do I. With that said why should we believe anything they taught about scripture? Wouldn't all their teachings be heretical if they were not guided by the Spirit and only guided by their personal beliefs and interpretations?

You should read scripture: 2 Peter 1:20

I sincerely hope you will give me a public apology since you publically called me a liar:

The Holy Ghost has called me by the gospel and illuminated me with his gifts and sanctified and preserved me in the true faith...Martin Luther

For Scripture is the school of the Holy Spirit, in which, as nothing is omitted that is both necessary and useful to know, so nothing is taught but what is expedient to know. Therefore we must guard against depriving believers of anything disclosed about predestination in Scripture, lest we seem either wickedly to defraud them of the blessing of their God or to accuse and scoff at the Holy Spirit for having published what it is in any way profitable to suppress....The grace of God has no charms for men till the Holy Spirit gives them a taste for it..... The Spirit of God who acts upon you is the helper of those who act. .....John Calvin

Almighty, eternal and merciful God, whose Word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path, open and illuminate our minds, that we may purely and perfectly understand thy Word.....Ulrich Zwingli

I patiently await your apology.

Patient Mary

I did not call you a liar, read what I wrote what I called 'a lie'.

Now, I can call you a liar because you lied that I called you a liar.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I did not mention that because I am NOT dialoguing with a Protestant. I am replying to a Roman Catholic who is claiming I am ignorant of Catholicism and that my claims are ignorant. These articles you cited justify my claims AND reveal Protestants also have a sexual immorality problem. Like mother, like daughter. This mother/daughter is alike in practicing idolatry as well since both worship the Son as though he is the only true God contrary to the Son's own words (John 17:3).

The actions of a few bad priests are not "Catholic Doctrine" - which you ARE ignorant of.
I've already exposed that . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Idolatry.

No, HERESY on your part.
Christ's Church has been Trinitarian from the beginning . . .

Ignatius of Antioch
Take care, therefore, to be confirmed in the decrees of the Lord and of the Apostles, in order that in everything you do, you may prosper in body and in soul, in faith and in love, in Son and in Father and in Spirit (Letter to the Magnesians 13:1 [A.D. 110]).

Athenagoras
For, as we acknowledge a God, and a Son his Logos, and a Holy Spirit, united in essence, - the Father, the Son, the Spirit because the Son is intelligence, reason, wisdom of the Father, and the Spirit an effluence, as light from fire; so also do we apprehend the existence of other powers, which exercise dominion about matter, and by means of it (A Plea for the Christians, 2:18 [A.D. 177]).

Irenaeus
For the Son, who is the Word of God, arranged these things beforehand from the beginning, the Father being in no want of angels, in order that He might call the creation into being, and form man, for whom also the creation was made; nor, again, standing in need of any instrumentality for the framing of created things, or for the ordering of those things which had reference to man; while, [at the same time,] He has a vast and unspeakable number of servants. For His offspring and His similitude do minister to Him in every respect; that is, the Son and the Holy Spirit, the Word and Wisdom; whom all the angels serve, and to whom they are subject (Against Heresies 4:7:4 [A.D. 189]).

Theophilus of Antioch
The three days which were before the luminaries, are types of the Trinity, of God, and His Word, and His Wisdom (To Autolycus 2:18 [A.D. 181]).

Clement of Alexandria
And the address in the Timœus calls the creator, Father, speaking thus: ‘Ye gods of gods, of whom I am Father; and the Creator of your works.’ So that when he says, ‘Around the king of all, all things are, and because of Him are all things; and he [or that] is the cause of all good things; and around the second are the things second in order; and around the third, the third,’ I understand nothing else than the Holy Trinity to be meant; for the third is the Holy Spirit, and the Son is the second, by whom all things were made according to the will of the Father (Stromata 5:14 [A.D. 202]).

Hippolytus
A man, therefore, even though he will it not, is compelled to acknowledge God the Father Almighty, and Christ Jesus the Son of God, who, being God, became man, to whom also the Father made all things subject, Himself excepted, and the Holy Spirit; and that these, therefore, are three. But if he desires to learn how it is shown still that there is one God, let him know that His power is one. As far as regards the power, therefore, God is one. But as far as regards the economy there is a threefold manifestation, as shall be proved afterwards when we give account of the true doctrine (Against the Heresy of One Noetus 8 [A.D. 200-210]).

Tertullian
…All are of One, by unity (that is) of substance; while the mystery of the dispensation is still guarded, which distributes the Unity into a Trinity, placing in their order the three Persons – the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost: three, however, not in condition, but in degree; not in substance, but in form; not in power, but in aspect; yet of one substance, and of one condition, and of one power, inasmuch as He is one God, from whom these degrees and forms and aspects are reckoned, under the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost (Against Praxeus 2 [A.D. 213]).

Origen
…the divine benefits [are] bestowed upon us by Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, which Trinity is the fountain of all holiness…. (On First Principles 1:4:2 [A.D. 225]).



Gregory Thaumaturgus

There is a perfect Trinity, in glory and eternity and sovereignty, neither divided nor estranged. Wherefore there is nothing either created or in servitude in the Trinity; nor anything superinduced, as if at some former period it was non-existent, and at some later period it was introduced. And thus neither was the Son ever wanting to the Father, nor the Spirit to the Son; but without variation and without change, the same Trinity abides forever (Declaration of Faith [circa A.D. 250]).

Methodius
Whence also in this place they are not only said to hymn with their praises the divine substance of the divine unity, but also the glory to be adored by all of that one of the sacred Trinity, which now, by the appearance of God in the flesh, hath even lighted upon earth (Oration Concerning Simeon and Anna 2 [A.D. 300]).

Gregory Nazianzen
But [the faithful] worship the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, one Godhead; God the Father, God the Son and (do not be angry) God the Holy Spirit, one nature in three personalities, intellectual, perfect, self-existent, numerically separate, but not separate in godhead (Orations 33 [A.D. 374]).

Epiphanius
[The Antiochenes] confess the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit to be consubstantial, three hypostases, one essence, one divinity. That is the true faith which has been handed down by the fathers… (Against the Heresies of the Panarians 73 [A.D. 374-377]).

Ambrose of Milan
The substance of the Trinity is, so to say, a common Essence in that which is distinct, an incomprehensible, ineffable Substance. We hold the distinction, not the confusion of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; a distinction without separation; a distinction without plurality; and thus we believe in Father, Son and Holy Spirit as each existing from and to eternity in this divine and wonderful Mystery: not in two Fathers, nor in two Sons, nor in two Spirits (To Gratian, On the Christian Faith 4:8 [A.D. 381]).

Augustine
As regards this question, then, let us believe that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit is one God, the Creator and Ruler of the whole creature; and that the Father is not the Son, nor the Holy Spirit either the Father or the Son, but a trinity of persons mutually interrelated, and a unity of an equal essence (On the Trinity 9:1 [A.D. 428]).

 

[BreadOfLife]

I guess that makes it ok cause the daughters of the great whore do just as mum does, so why is she so angry, she should be proud of her offspring///

Yup – YOU and Gadar should know about that.

You’re both offshoots of offshoots of offshoots of true Christianity. Unfortunately, you BOTH offshoot so much that you lost sight of Christ. Gadar with his bizarre anti-Trinitarian, anti-God beliefs – and YOU with your online cult led by a Santa Claus look-alike “General” in military garb.

YIKES!!!

 

[Marymog]

I did not call you a liar, read what I wrote what I called 'a lie'.

Now, I can call you a liar because you lied that I called you a liar.

QUOTE: "Not true nonsense lie;"

You are CLEARLY saying what I wrote was "not true". If one is saying something that is not true it could be considered a lie HOWEVER it might just be a misstatement by that person or something said out of ignorance.

HOWEVER, you then went on to add the word "lie" at the end of the sentence which made it clear you thought I was lying and not making a misstatement......soooooo you did call me a liar and you are twisting your own words just like you twist scripture.

I knew your arrogant pride would never allow you to apologize but I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask. I can read you like a book.

 

[Marymog]

I did not call you a liar, read what I wrote what I called 'a lie'.

Now, I can call you a liar because you lied that I called you a liar.

LOL.....I proved you wrong about your ignorant statement and this is all you have to say.

Goodness.....Somebody just can't swallow their pride and admit they were wrong. How sad for you

Now that we have established that they did think they were guided by the Spirit even though we both agree they were not does that make them POSSIBLY false teachers???

Mary

 

[gadar perets]

If not the CC then which Church?

Curious Mary

Yeshua has his people spread out throughout the world. They are not all bunched up into one denomination/organization.

 

[gadar perets]

The actions of a few bad priests are not "Catholic Doctrine" - which you ARE ignorant of.
I've already exposed that . . .

"A few bad priests" my foot! Here are the Vatican stats just since 2004.

"GENEVA -- The Vatican revealed Tuesday that over the past decade, it has defrocked 848 priests who raped or molested children and sanctioned another 2,572 with lesser penalties, providing the first ever breakdown of how it handled the more than 3,400 cases of abuse reported to the Holy See since 2004." cbsnews.com
​

How many thousands of Roman Catholic clergy committed such crimes prior to 2004? We will find out come Judgment Day.

 

[Marymog]

Yeshua has his people spread out throughout the world. They are not all bunched up into one denomination/organization.

Why do all of "his people spread out throughout the world" have different interpretations of Scripture that all of them say is the truth? Is that what Yeshua wants? Everyone to have different truths?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

[QUOTE="gadar perets, post: 494787, member: 7741How many thousands of Roman Catholic clergy committed such crimes prior to 2004? We will find out come Judgment Day.[/QUOTE]
How many thousands of Yeshua's people spread throughout the world committed such crimes prior to 2004? We will find out come Judgment Day!

Mary

 

[gadar perets]

No, HERESY on your part.
Christ's Church has been Trinitarian from the beginning . . .

Ignatius of Antioch
Take care, therefore, to be confirmed in the decrees of the Lord and of the Apostles, in order that in everything you do, you may prosper in body and in soul, in faith and in love, in Son and in Father and in Spirit (Letter to the Magnesians 13:1 [A.D. 110]).

Athenagoras
For, as we acknowledge a God, and a Son his Logos, and a Holy Spirit, united in essence, - the Father, the Son, the Spirit because the Son is intelligence, reason, wisdom of the Father, and the Spirit an effluence, as light from fire; so also do we apprehend the existence of other powers, which exercise dominion about matter, and by means of it (A Plea for the Christians, 2:18 [A.D. 177]).

Irenaeus
For the Son, who is the Word of God, arranged these things beforehand from the beginning, the Father being in no want of angels, in order that He might call the creation into being, and form man, for whom also the creation was made; nor, again, standing in need of any instrumentality for the framing of created things, or for the ordering of those things which had reference to man; while, [at the same time,] He has a vast and unspeakable number of servants. For His offspring and His similitude do minister to Him in every respect; that is, the Son and the Holy Spirit, the Word and Wisdom; whom all the angels serve, and to whom they are subject (Against Heresies 4:7:4 [A.D. 189]).

Theophilus of Antioch
The three days which were before the luminaries, are types of the Trinity, of God, and His Word, and His Wisdom (To Autolycus 2:18 [A.D. 181]).

Clement of Alexandria
And the address in the Timœus calls the creator, Father, speaking thus: ‘Ye gods of gods, of whom I am Father; and the Creator of your works.’ So that when he says, ‘Around the king of all, all things are, and because of Him are all things; and he [or that] is the cause of all good things; and around the second are the things second in order; and around the third, the third,’ I understand nothing else than the Holy Trinity to be meant; for the third is the Holy Spirit, and the Son is the second, by whom all things were made according to the will of the Father (Stromata 5:14 [A.D. 202]).

Hippolytus
A man, therefore, even though he will it not, is compelled to acknowledge God the Father Almighty, and Christ Jesus the Son of God, who, being God, became man, to whom also the Father made all things subject, Himself excepted, and the Holy Spirit; and that these, therefore, are three. But if he desires to learn how it is shown still that there is one God, let him know that His power is one. As far as regards the power, therefore, God is one. But as far as regards the economy there is a threefold manifestation, as shall be proved afterwards when we give account of the true doctrine (Against the Heresy of One Noetus 8 [A.D. 200-210]).

Tertullian
…All are of One, by unity (that is) of substance; while the mystery of the dispensation is still guarded, which distributes the Unity into a Trinity, placing in their order the three Persons – the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost: three, however, not in condition, but in degree; not in substance, but in form; not in power, but in aspect; yet of one substance, and of one condition, and of one power, inasmuch as He is one God, from whom these degrees and forms and aspects are reckoned, under the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost (Against Praxeus 2 [A.D. 213]).

Origen
…the divine benefits [are] bestowed upon us by Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, which Trinity is the fountain of all holiness…. (On First Principles 1:4:2 [A.D. 225]).



Gregory Thaumaturgus

There is a perfect Trinity, in glory and eternity and sovereignty, neither divided nor estranged. Wherefore there is nothing either created or in servitude in the Trinity; nor anything superinduced, as if at some former period it was non-existent, and at some later period it was introduced. And thus neither was the Son ever wanting to the Father, nor the Spirit to the Son; but without variation and without change, the same Trinity abides forever (Declaration of Faith [circa A.D. 250]).

Methodius
Whence also in this place they are not only said to hymn with their praises the divine substance of the divine unity, but also the glory to be adored by all of that one of the sacred Trinity, which now, by the appearance of God in the flesh, hath even lighted upon earth (Oration Concerning Simeon and Anna 2 [A.D. 300]).

Gregory Nazianzen
But [the faithful] worship the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, one Godhead; God the Father, God the Son and (do not be angry) God the Holy Spirit, one nature in three personalities, intellectual, perfect, self-existent, numerically separate, but not separate in godhead (Orations 33 [A.D. 374]).

Epiphanius
[The Antiochenes] confess the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit to be consubstantial, three hypostases, one essence, one divinity. That is the true faith which has been handed down by the fathers… (Against the Heresies of the Panarians 73 [A.D. 374-377]).

Ambrose of Milan
The substance of the Trinity is, so to say, a common Essence in that which is distinct, an incomprehensible, ineffable Substance. We hold the distinction, not the confusion of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; a distinction without separation; a distinction without plurality; and thus we believe in Father, Son and Holy Spirit as each existing from and to eternity in this divine and wonderful Mystery: not in two Fathers, nor in two Sons, nor in two Spirits (To Gratian, On the Christian Faith 4:8 [A.D. 381]).

Augustine
As regards this question, then, let us believe that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit is one God, the Creator and Ruler of the whole creature; and that the Father is not the Son, nor the Holy Spirit either the Father or the Son, but a trinity of persons mutually interrelated, and a unity of an equal essence (On the Trinity 9:1 [A.D. 428]).

All this proves is that it didn't take long for corruption to set in after Paul's departure. He knew it would (Acts 20:29).

 

[BreadOfLife]

"A few bad priests" my foot! Here are the Vatican stats just since 2004.

"GENEVA -- The Vatican revealed Tuesday that over the past decade, it has defrocked 848 priests who raped or molested children and sanctioned another 2,572 with lesser penalties, providing the first ever breakdown of how it handled the more than 3,400 cases of abuse reported to the Holy See since 2004." cbsnews.com
​

How many thousands of Roman Catholic clergy committed such crimes prior to 2004? We will find out come Judgment Day.

Of the approximately 424,313 priests worldwide, you have mentioned only a relatively SMALL number, Einstein.

The problem remains unchecked in the non-Catholic sects . . .

 

[gadar perets]

Why do all of "his people spread out throughout the world" have different interpretations of Scripture that all of them say is the truth? Is that what Yeshua wants? Everyone to have different truths?

Curious Mary

Who says they believe differently? You don't even know who they are, so how can you say they interpret Scripture differently? Maybe they do in some areas, but as far as what matters (the Gospel, strict monotheism, and keeping the commandments) they are probably in agreement. I say "probably" because I do not know who they are either.

 

[BreadOfLife]

All this proves is that it didn't take long for corruption to set in after Paul's departure. He knew it would (Acts 20:29).

No – it only proves that YOU believe Jesus was a LIAR when He said that the gates of Hell would NOT prevail against His Church (Matt. 16:18).
According to YOU – it did just THAT for 1500 years.

Your lack of faith is pathetic . . .

 

[gadar perets]

[QUOTE="gadar perets, post: 494787, member: 7741How many thousands of Roman Catholic clergy committed such crimes prior to 2004? We will find out come Judgment Day.

How many thousands of Yeshua's people spread throughout the world committed such crimes prior to 2004? We will find out come Judgment Day!

Mary

Mat 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.​

 

[gadar perets]

Of the approximately 424,313 priests worldwide, you have mentioned only a relatively SMALL number, Einstein.

You keep hiding your head in the sand BOL. You just won't admit the FACT that the RCC has a sexual immorality problem. You keep trivializing it and deflecting to the Protestant churches who, I agree, are just as bad.

 

[gadar perets]

No – it only proves that YOU believe Jesus was a LIAR when He said that the gates of Hell would NOT prevail against His Church (Matt. 16:18).
According to YOU – it did just THAT for 1500 years.

Your lack of faith is pathetic . . .

Matthew 16:18 means the grave will not prevail over his church because he has the keys to unlock those gates (Revelation 1:18). All his people will be resurrected.