The Five Points of Calvinism

[Waiting on him]

Very true..."No man can come unto Me except the Father draw him."

But, just like the stubborn child...the parent says time to eat, but the kids ignore it and carries on playing with his toys.

God IS the initiator, but their must be a response.

Your referring to the children of this world my birth was from above born of God

 

[Waiting on him]

(I think this was supposed to be addressed to me)

I already acknowledged that Calvinists are Christians. I am not denying your love of Christ or your devotion to Him-- never would I do such a blind and hateful thing.

Now, that being said, under the Christian umbrella, there are a very large number of different traditions and human teachers, that disagree on many points. You got Calvinist Christians, Catholic Christian, Orthodox Christians, LDS Christians, Methodists Christians, etc. It is those finer points (like Calvin's TULIP) we have been discussing on this thread. I am not denying anyone's love of Christ or standing as a Christian.

Ok. My teacher is the Holy Spirit. But you call me Calvinist why is that. I don’t call you Smithist that’s your proclamation. Was Smith crucified for you?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Ok. My teacher is the Holy Spirit. But you call me Calvinist why is that. I don’t call you Smithist that’s your proclamation. Was Smith crucified for you?

I call you a Calvinist because you seem to follow the teaching of Calvin (denial of free will, etc), whether or not you were aware of it before.
It is not denying your standing as a Christian at all -- after all Calvinists are Christians. A Calvinist is just a particular type of Christian (like Catholic Christians, Methodist Christian, LDS Christians, Orthodox Christians, etc).

 

[Waiting on him]

I call you a Calvinist because you seem to follow the teaching of Calvin (denial of free will, etc), whether or not you were aware of it before.
It is not denying your standing as a Christian at all -- after all Calvinists are Christians. A Calvinist is just a particular type of Christian (like Catholic Christians, Methodist Christian, LDS Christians, Orthodox Christians, etc).

Sounds like a lot of people are followers of men.thats scary

 

[Waiting on him]

I call you a Calvinist because you seem to follow the teaching of Calvin (denial of free will, etc), whether or not you were aware of it before.
It is not denying your standing as a Christian at all -- after all Calvinists are Christians. A Calvinist is just a particular type of Christian (like Catholic Christians, Methodist Christian, LDS Christians, Orthodox Christians, etc).

The way I see it is I’m following the teachings of Christ.

 

[Dave L]

Again, Jesus isn't teaching Calvinism in those verses. Repeating those same verses or personally insulting me is not going to change the verses or the fact that a sheep *voluntarily* follows the shepard.

Posted on this very thread, by a Calvinist:

(Bolding mine)
God only saves *some*.



I keep see you ignoring scripture and/or mutilating it's meaning. Even a simple and pure verse like John3:16 Calvinists butcher. And no, I'm not eager to keep seeing this butchering.

The world = fulfillment of the promise to Abraham. In him all nations would be blessed. + not only Jews as under the OT. But gentiles too.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Sounds like a lot of people are followers of men.thats scary

The way I see it is I’m following the teachings of Christ.

They are all Christians. Different denotations and different views on a lot of points, but still all Christians.

 

[Waiting on him]

The way I see it is I’m following the teachings of Christ.

You never answered my question. Was Smith crusified for you?

 

[Waiting on him]

They are all Christians. Different denotations and different views on a lot of points, but still all Christians.

Makes me question all of it

 

[Jane_Doe22]

You never answered my question. Was Smith crusified for you?

Again: I am a Christian. As are Calvinist Christians, Catholic Christians, Methodist Christians, etc.

 

[Dave L]

Why do you and other Calvinists bother? After all, everybody's fate was preprogrammed before creation.

Or is this a puppet masters entertainment watching us dance on his strings?

Not just everyone's destiny, but the means that produced their destiny too.

 

[Dave L]

Why don't you ask what I believe instead of trying to tell me why I believe.

No sinner can save themselves. They must recognize they are hopelessly lost and need Christ to save them.

The self-righteous do not believe they need saving.

Asking God to save one is not saving themselves. It is throwing themselves on the mercy and grace of Christ out of recognition they cannot do it themselves.

Your thinking is truly warped. You deny free well and then try to deny Calvinism says people are robots. You deny the simple reality only a puppeteer God would function as you claim.

Fact remains in your beliefs there is absolutely no need for the white throne judgment. After all, we're preprogrammed robots that have no choice in the issue.

I know what you believe by what you say. And you believe in salvation by works, foreseen or otherwise.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Makes me question all of it

The core of being a Christian is being a disciple of Christ- loving and following Him.

Past that foundational core, there is a huge variety of beliefs. If a person finds that variety to be intimidating or confusing, I would recommend doing some hard core scripture study and prayer (which includes listen to God). You can learn about different interpretations/beliefs from different groups, which is always good for self/world awareness, and we should always treat each other with charity. But the best answers you will find come directly from God.

 

[Waiting on him]

Again: I am a Christian. As are Calvinist Christians, Catholic Christians, Methodist Christians, etc.

Getting a straight answer from you is like trying to nail jello to the wall. It can never be yes or no. Why is that? You alway say no one will answer your questions.

 

[Waiting on him]

The core of being a Christian is being a disciple of Christ- loving and following Him.

Past that foundational core, there is a huge variety of beliefs. If a person finds that variety to be intimidating or confusing, I would recommend doing some hard core scripture study and prayer (which includes listen to God). You can learn about different interpretations/beliefs from different groups, which is always good for self/world awareness, and we should always treat each other with charity. But the best answers you will find come directly from God.

That sounds like self justification. Is his answer not good enough?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Very true..."No man can come unto Me except the Father draw him."

But, just like the stubborn child...the parent says time to eat, but the kids ignore it and carries on playing with his toys.

God IS the initiator, but their must be a response.

“no man can come unto Me except the Father draw him”? Does God draw all men to Him?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Getting a straight answer from you is like trying to nail jello to the wall. It can never be yes or no. Why is that? You alway say no one will answer your questions.

Dude: I nor no one else thinks their denomination people were the one's crucified on the cross. Everyone acknowledges it was Christ. That discipleship is what it is to be a Christian. I have stated repeatedly that I do not deny your discipleship or standing as a Christian. I said that earlier, and will gladly say it again.

Different denominations come in with different interpretations of things / beliefs on other points of lesser importance.

That sounds like self justification

Listening Him is not self-justification. It's listening to the Good Shepard.

Is his answer not good enough?

People across Christianity have very diverse understanding of scripture. For a case example: once over the course of a single month, I ended up hearing 5 different sermons on the same passage of scripture that gave 5 attached means to it.

 

[CoreIssue]

I know what you believe by what you say. And you believe in salvation by works, foreseen or otherwise.

Then you do not know what I believe in since I reject salvation by works. Repentance is not a work, it is a request.

 

[CoreIssue]

“no man can come unto Me except the Father draw him”? Does God draw all men to Him?

God wants all men you say. All not some.

He calls to all but not all listen.

Revelation 3:20 New International Version (NIV)
20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

That is free will choice to open the door or not.

It does not say he only knocks at some doors.

 

[Waiting on him]

Dude: I nor no one else thinks their denomination people were the one's crucified on the cross. Everyone acknowledges it was Christ. That discipleship is what it is to be a Christian. I have stated repeatedly that I do not deny your discipleship or standing as a Christian. I said that earlier, and will gladly say it again.

This apparently is a problem.
1 Corinthians 1:12-13 KJV
[12] Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. [13] Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

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