Mormonism

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Jane_Doe22

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Actually that is incorrect. Please note what I am quoting from a Mormon writer and the link is provided below:

"Jesus Is the Savior of All the World
The title page of the Book of Mormon declares that the book was written for “the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God, manifesting himself unto all nations.” That statement tells us who Jesus is. He is God and has been active among the peoples of the world. He is not an absentee landlord...

The Book of Mormon tells us that the person we call Jesus Christ is the God of the whole world, and of all people, and has been working among all nations to the extent of their willingness and ability to receive, and in accordance with his own timetable...

I mentioned earlier that Jesus is Jehovah, born into the world with a body of flesh and bones, clothed with mortality... There is no mistaking the fact that Nephi wanted his readers to understand that the God of their fathers (Jehovah) would come to earth as the Messiah..."

2. What the Book of Mormon Tells Us about Jesus Christ | Religious Studies Center

Christians need to be careful that they do not bear false witness about others.
@Enoch111 , you are an amazing example of a true disciple of Christ.
 
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FatalMoves

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Actually I historically hate being social at church and have had horrible times in social situations there. I am naturally a huge introvert and find lots of friendliness to be exhausting and unwelcome. I do not hold the beliefs I do for any social reason. And I actually get a tons of discrimination from other venues because I hold the beliefs I do.

If I just wanted an easier road for social reason, I could pick any other path and have a MUCH easier and more welcoming social time.
Doesn't stop you being a prayer target.
 

CoreIssue

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Actually that is incorrect. Please note what I am quoting from a Mormon writer and the link is provided below:

"Jesus Is the Savior of All the World
The title page of the Book of Mormon declares that the book was written for “the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God, manifesting himself unto all nations.” That statement tells us who Jesus is. He is God and has been active among the peoples of the world. He is not an absentee landlord...

The Book of Mormon tells us that the person we call Jesus Christ is the God of the whole world, and of all people, and has been working among all nations to the extent of their willingness and ability to receive, and in accordance with his own timetable...

I mentioned earlier that Jesus is Jehovah, born into the world with a body of flesh and bones, clothed with mortality... There is no mistaking the fact that Nephi wanted his readers to understand that the God of their fathers (Jehovah) would come to earth as the Messiah..."

2. What the Book of Mormon Tells Us about Jesus Christ | Religious Studies Center

Christians need to be careful that they do not bear false witness about others.
Jesus Christ is human. God is not human.

God indwelt the flesh of Jesus Christ but did not become flesh.

The second person of the Trinity is God, not the human. God cannot die but Jesus Christ did die.

Two natures, God and man, not one nature that is both God and man.
 

CoreIssue

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Oh, you're talking about me.

I'm going to start this by stating this fact: I don't care if anyone here agrees with my beliefs. Totally don't care. I do however, try to be factual about what those beliefs actually are. For a parallel here: I don't agree with a lot of Catholic beliefs, but it would be unethical for me to say "Catholics believe you should kill a pig and wear it around as a hat"- cause that's simply not true. We disagreeing with someone about beliefs doesn't mean we can't also be factual about what those beliefs are.

Also stating at the gate here: if anyone who like to hear more in-depth about any subject on here or elsewhere, let me know and I will happily address it more in depth.


^False statement.
True statement: I am happy to address any point, assuming that the other person actually wants to talk about things. I have addressed these exact points from this exact poster several times, only to have the same falsehoods and personal insults repeated verbatim.

^False statement.
True statement: I'm happy to address any point and just talk how I talk.

^False statement all around. Anything regarding "multiple wives" is not doctrine, same with the "worked his way up to godhood" and other planets stuff. These statements are false claims taken from non-doctrinal speculation, ripped from context, and completely cartoonized. If anyone wants me to go more in depth on any of this, feel free to ask.

^False statement.
True statement: the Father was/is the Father of all. Christ is His Only Begotten Son that perfectly follows the Father's will. Everyone else: not so much. There is no special relationship between Lucifer and Christ. And I already addressed the "wives" part.

This one is actually somewhat factual (albeit said really weird). LDS interrupt the "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee" (Job 1:5) to be literally knowing.

Scriptures | LDS.org

^False/misrepresentation all around. On being saved: Like other Christians, LDS readily acknowledge that it's faith that saves a person. But also that Christ didn't die on a cross so that you can continue living in sin -- real faith is an action. For accurate info on LDS view of post-mortal life, I recommend this link: Kingdoms of Glory

Except that the statements you make here don't link to that real source. The true source of this information is the works of Ed Decker and Walter Martin.

Who got the crazy idea that is was Gabriel?

Actually the "Mormon Bible" is the 66 book KJV. The Book of Mormon is not the Bible.

Scriptures | LDS.org
 

Enoch111

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Jesus Christ is human. God is not human.
You've been attacking Mormonism and Calvinism as cults, but you yourself hold to a false cultish doctrine regarding Christ.

So let's take this one at a time. Since Jesus is God in a glorified human body, on what grounds can you say that God is not human? Christ is the God-Man, fully divine and fully human. This is what all conservative Christians believe.
God indwelt the flesh of Jesus Christ but did not become flesh.
This is GNOSTIC DOCTRINE my friend, not Gospel truth.
The second person of the Trinity is God, not the human. God cannot die but Jesus Christ did die.
TOTALLY FALSE AND UNSCRIPTURAL. The second person of the Trinity is God the Word or God the Son, not God the Father (who is generally called "God" in the NT). And Jesus died on the cross as the God-Man.
Two natures, God and man, not one nature that is both God and man.
Again TOTALLY FALSE.

So what you should really do it get a proper understand of who the Lord Jesus Christ is before pointing the fingers at anyone else. You are seriously confused.
 
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CoreIssue

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You've been attacking Mormonism and Calvinism as cults, but you yourself hold to false a cultish doctrine regarding Christ.

So let's take this one at a time. Since Jesus is God in a glorified human body, on what grounds can you say that God is not human? Christ is the God-Man, fully divine and fully human. This is what all conservative Christians believe.

This is GNOSTIC DOCTRINE my friend, not Gospel truth.

TOTALLY FALSE AND UNSCRIPTURAL. The second person of the Trinity is God the Word or God the Son, not God the Father (who is generally called "God" in the NT). And Jesus died on the cross as the God-Man.

Again TOTALLY FALSE.

So what you should really do it get a proper understand of who the Lord Jesus Christ is before pointing the fingers at anyone else. You are seriously confused.

Fully God and fully man defines his soul, which is the completeness of flesh plus spirit working together.

But his flash is not God and his spirit is not man.

Jesus Christ did not die as a God man. He died as a man because God could not pay the sin price.

You cannot show me the existing flesh of Jesus before the incarnation anywhere in the Bible.

https://www.theopedia.com/hypostatic-union
Two natures of Jesus
The two natures of Jesus refers to the doctrine that the one person Jesus Christ had/has two natures, divine and human. In theology this is called the doctrine of the hypostatic union, from the Greek word hypostasis (which came to mean substantive reality). Early church figures such as Athanasius used the term "hypostatic union" to describe the teaching that these two distinct natures (divine and human) co-existed substantively and in reality in the single person of Jesus Christ. The aim was to defend the doctrine that Jesus was simultaneously truly God and truly man.

Notices this distinct natures? Not one singular nature? Which you fail to recognize and understand.

I am not the one in error here and here is your error.

Does Jesus Have One Nature, or Two?
The Monophysites claimed that Jesus did not have two natures, a divine nature and a human nature, but only one nature. That one nature was neither completely divine nor completely human. It was, depending on how one looked at it, a deified human nature or a humanized divine nature. This heresy was very serious for two reasons. It denied, on the one hand, the full deity of Christ. On the other hand, it denied the real humanity of Jesus. Against that, the Council of Chalcedon declared that Christ was vere homo, vere Deus, that is, “truly man and truly God,” having two natures in one person.
 

CoreIssue

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Doctrine and Covenants 93
21 And now, verily I say unto you, I was in the beginning with the Father, and am the Firstborn;

Mormonism says: “We pre-existed as spirit children
Mormonism says: “We pre-existed as spirit children
In Mormon theology, God is accompanied by a Goddess wife—our so-called “Heavenly Mother.” Together, they produce countless ethereal children which Mormons call “spirit children.”

Mormonism's Official Curriculum Material etc.
• “We all once lived in the presence of God the eternal father. In the world before your were a spirit child of his. With this divine parentage, your destiny, through righteous living, is to become like your Father in Heaven and return to his presence” [The Purpose of Life(Pamphlet handed out at BYU campus temple)]
• “A veil covers our memories of our premortal life, but our Father in Heaven knows who we are and what we did before we came here. He has chosen the time and place for each of us to be born so we can learn the lessons we personally need and do the most good with our individual talents and personalities.” [Gospel Principles, Chapter 2: Our Heavenly Family (2011), 8.]

Mormon Authorities
Joseph Smith (Mormonism's founding president-prophet) “We were first begotten as spirit babies in heaven and then born naturally on earth” [Journal of Discourse, vol. 4, 218.]
Brigham Young (Mormonism's 2nd president-prophet): “In the spirit world their spirits were first begotten and brought forth, … you could trace back your history to the Father of our spirits in the eternal world. He is a being of the same species as ourselves; He lives as we do, except the difference that we are earthly, and He is heavenly. He has been earthly, and is of precisely the same species of being that we are.” [Journal of Discourses, vol. 4:42]
Orson Pratt (Original ‘Quorum of the Twelve’ member): “before men and women are born on earth as babies, their spirits are adult size in heaven. When they are born, their Spirits are compressed, which causes a loss in memory” [Journal of Discourses vol.16, 333-334.]

Mormonism teaches: We have a Goddess mother
Mormonism teaches: We have a Goddess mother
As summarized by Milton R. Hunter (Leading 'Council of the Seventy' member): “The stupendous truth of the existence of a Heavenly Mother, as well as a Heavenly Father, became established facts in Mormon theology” [The Gospel Through the Ages (1958), 98.]

Official Curriculum Material etc.
—“WE, THE FIRST PRESIDENCY and the Council... proclaim... Each [person] is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents.” [The Family: A Proclamation to the World (1995)]
—“For as we have a Father in heaven, so also we have a Mother there, a glorified, exalted, ennobled Mother.” [Achieving A Celestial Marriage, LDS Student Manual, 129.]
—“You are made in the image of our heavenly mother.” [The Latter-day Saint Woman: Basic Manual for Women, Part A: Lesson 9: Chastity and Modesty (2000), 65.]
—“We know, for example, that we were sons and daughters of heavenly parents—males and females”[Gospel Principles, Chapter 2: Our Heavenly Family (2011).]

Official Mormon Hymns:
—“heavenly parents” [“Oh, What Songs of the Heart” (hymn #286)]
—“heav'nly parents” [“We Meet Again As Sisters” (hymn #311)]
—“...I've a mother there. .. Father, Mother, may I meet you In your royal courts on high?” [“O My Father” (hymn #292).]

Mormon Authorities
—Joseph Fielding Smith
(Mormonism's 6th president-prophet): “God revealed that principle that we have a mother as well as a father in heaven to Joseph Smith; Joseph Smith revealed it to Eliza Snow Smith, his wife; and Eliza Snow was inspired, being a poet, to put it into verse.” “Man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of heavenly parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father, prior to coming upon the earth in a temporal [physical] body” [Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph F. Smith (1998), 335.]
—Orson Pratt: “In the Heaven where our spirits were born, there are many gods, each one of whom has his own wife or wives... Each God, through his wife or wives, raises up a numerous family of sons and daughters;... As soon as each god has begotten many millions of male and female spirits …he sends both the male and female spirits to inhabit tabernacles of flesh and bones. … The inhabitants of each world are required to reverence, adore, and worship their own personal father who dwells in the heaven which they formerly inhabited.” [The Seer, 1853 (1990 ed.), vol. 1, 37.]
—Spencer W. Kimball(Mormonism's 12th president-prophet): “queenly elegance of our Heavenly Mother, and knowing how profoundly our mortal mothers have shaped us here” [“The True Way of Life and Salvation,”Ensign (May 1978), 4.]
—Brigham Young (Mormonism's 2nd president-prophet): [In articulating the controversial Adam-God doctrine] “I tell you more, Adam is the father of our spirits …our spirits and the spirits of all the heavenly family were begotten by Adam, and born of Eve. …I tell you, when you see your Father in the Heavens, you will see Adam; when you see your Mother that bore your spirit, you will see Mother Eve.” [Manuscript Address of Brigham Young, Oct 8, 1854.”]
—Bruce R. McConkie (LDS 'General Authority'): “Implicit in the Christian verity that all men are the spirit children of an Eternal Father is the usually unspoken truth that they are also the offspring of an Eternal Mother. …This doctrine that there is a Mother in Heaven was affirmed in plainness by the First Presidency of the Church… they said that ‘man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of heavenly parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father,’ that man is the ‘offspring of celestial parentage,’ and that ‘all men and women are in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother, and are literally the sons and daughters of Deity’” [Mormon Doctrine (1979), 516.]

GOD HAS SEX WITH HIS GODDESS WIFE/WIVES (PRODUCING CHILDREN)
See here.

JESUS/SATAN/OUR SPIRITS ARE ALL OFFSPRING OF HERS
See here.1
 

mjrhealth

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Actually I historically hate being social at church and have had horrible times in social situations there. I am naturally a huge introvert and find lots of friendliness to be exhausting and unwelcome. I do not hold the beliefs I do for any social reason. And I actually get a tons of discrimination from other venues because I hold the beliefs I do.

If I just wanted an easier road for social reason, I could pick any other path and have a MUCH easier and more welcoming social time.
Try being one who alone follows Christ, the response will be no less different, but I would rather follow Him than any man made religion
 

Jane_Doe22

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That link avoids Mormon official doctrine and other official documents that clearly show Mormonism is a cult.

I notice you carefully avoid addressing materials include here:

Scriptures | LDS.org
Fully God and fully man defines his soul, which is the completeness of flesh plus spirit working together.

But his flash is not God and his spirit is not man.

Jesus Christ did not die as a God man. He died as a man because God could not pay the sin price.

You cannot show me the existing flesh of Jesus before the incarnation anywhere in the Bible.

https://www.theopedia.com/hypostatic-union


Notices this distinct natures? Not one singular nature? Which you fail to recognize and understand.

I am not the one in error here and here is your error.

Does Jesus Have One Nature, or Two?
Doctrine and Covenants 93
21 And now, verily I say unto you, I was in the beginning with the Father, and am the Firstborn;

Mormonism says: “We pre-existed as spirit children
Mormonism says: “We pre-existed as spirit children
In Mormon theology, God is accompanied by a Goddess wife—our so-called “Heavenly Mother.” Together, they produce countless ethereal children which Mormons call “spirit children.”

Mormonism's Official Curriculum Material etc.
• “We all once lived in the presence of God the eternal father. In the world before your were a spirit child of his. With this divine parentage, your destiny, through righteous living, is to become like your Father in Heaven and return to his presence” [The Purpose of Life(Pamphlet handed out at BYU campus temple)]
• “A veil covers our memories of our premortal life, but our Father in Heaven knows who we are and what we did before we came here. He has chosen the time and place for each of us to be born so we can learn the lessons we personally need and do the most good with our individual talents and personalities.” [Gospel Principles, Chapter 2: Our Heavenly Family (2011), 8.]

Mormon Authorities
Joseph Smith (Mormonism's founding president-prophet) “We were first begotten as spirit babies in heaven and then born naturally on earth” [Journal of Discourse, vol. 4, 218.]
Brigham Young (Mormonism's 2nd president-prophet): “In the spirit world their spirits were first begotten and brought forth, … you could trace back your history to the Father of our spirits in the eternal world. He is a being of the same species as ourselves; He lives as we do, except the difference that we are earthly, and He is heavenly. He has been earthly, and is of precisely the same species of being that we are.” [Journal of Discourses, vol. 4:42]
Orson Pratt (Original ‘Quorum of the Twelve’ member): “before men and women are born on earth as babies, their spirits are adult size in heaven. When they are born, their Spirits are compressed, which causes a loss in memory” [Journal of Discourses vol.16, 333-334.]

Mormonism teaches: We have a Goddess mother
Mormonism teaches: We have a Goddess mother
As summarized by Milton R. Hunter (Leading 'Council of the Seventy' member): “The stupendous truth of the existence of a Heavenly Mother, as well as a Heavenly Father, became established facts in Mormon theology” [The Gospel Through the Ages (1958), 98.]

Official Curriculum Material etc.
—“WE, THE FIRST PRESIDENCY and the Council... proclaim... Each [person] is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents.” [The Family: A Proclamation to the World (1995)]
—“For as we have a Father in heaven, so also we have a Mother there, a glorified, exalted, ennobled Mother.” [Achieving A Celestial Marriage, LDS Student Manual, 129.]
—“You are made in the image of our heavenly mother.” [The Latter-day Saint Woman: Basic Manual for Women, Part A: Lesson 9: Chastity and Modesty (2000), 65.]
—“We know, for example, that we were sons and daughters of heavenly parents—males and females”[Gospel Principles, Chapter 2: Our Heavenly Family (2011).]

Official Mormon Hymns:
—“heavenly parents” [“Oh, What Songs of the Heart” (hymn #286)]
—“heav'nly parents” [“We Meet Again As Sisters” (hymn #311)]
—“...I've a mother there. .. Father, Mother, may I meet you In your royal courts on high?” [“O My Father” (hymn #292).]

Mormon Authorities
—Joseph Fielding Smith
(Mormonism's 6th president-prophet): “God revealed that principle that we have a mother as well as a father in heaven to Joseph Smith; Joseph Smith revealed it to Eliza Snow Smith, his wife; and Eliza Snow was inspired, being a poet, to put it into verse.” “Man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of heavenly parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father, prior to coming upon the earth in a temporal [physical] body” [Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph F. Smith (1998), 335.]
—Orson Pratt: “In the Heaven where our spirits were born, there are many gods, each one of whom has his own wife or wives... Each God, through his wife or wives, raises up a numerous family of sons and daughters;... As soon as each god has begotten many millions of male and female spirits …he sends both the male and female spirits to inhabit tabernacles of flesh and bones. … The inhabitants of each world are required to reverence, adore, and worship their own personal father who dwells in the heaven which they formerly inhabited.” [The Seer, 1853 (1990 ed.), vol. 1, 37.]
—Spencer W. Kimball(Mormonism's 12th president-prophet): “queenly elegance of our Heavenly Mother, and knowing how profoundly our mortal mothers have shaped us here” [“The True Way of Life and Salvation,”Ensign (May 1978), 4.]
—Brigham Young (Mormonism's 2nd president-prophet): [In articulating the controversial Adam-God doctrine] “I tell you more, Adam is the father of our spirits …our spirits and the spirits of all the heavenly family were begotten by Adam, and born of Eve. …I tell you, when you see your Father in the Heavens, you will see Adam; when you see your Mother that bore your spirit, you will see Mother Eve.” [Manuscript Address of Brigham Young, Oct 8, 1854.”]
—Bruce R. McConkie (LDS 'General Authority'): “Implicit in the Christian verity that all men are the spirit children of an Eternal Father is the usually unspoken truth that they are also the offspring of an Eternal Mother. …This doctrine that there is a Mother in Heaven was affirmed in plainness by the First Presidency of the Church… they said that ‘man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of heavenly parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father,’ that man is the ‘offspring of celestial parentage,’ and that ‘all men and women are in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother, and are literally the sons and daughters of Deity’” [Mormon Doctrine (1979), 516.]

GOD HAS SEX WITH HIS GODDESS WIFE/WIVES (PRODUCING CHILDREN)
See here.

JESUS/SATAN/OUR SPIRITS ARE ALL OFFSPRING OF HERS
See here.1
If anyone wants me to actually address any of this (vast majority of which don't even site actual LDS doctrinal quotes), feel free to ask. I'm tired of just replying to CI, only to be ignored by him/her.
 

CoreIssue

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If anyone wants me to actually address any of this (vast majority of which don't even site actual LDS doctrinal quotes), feel free to ask. I'm tired of just replying to CI, only to be ignored by him/her.

Oh good grief. You totally keep avoiding and pretending the material I posted from Mormon sources proving exactly what I said.