When to look for the rapture of the church

[VictoryinJesus]

(2 Thess. 2:4) "...in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

“...In the temple of God...”

It is not His temple. That is the point. Not saying you are wrong only that I’m struggling to understand or see how He cast down the stones and said God no longer dwells in temples made with hands...how then is this new temple built of man the place where God dwells and is called “the temple of God.” When God said He is building up a Spiritual house of God where His Son is the foundation and, here is where God dwells.

You are blending Platonic philosophy with Bible interpretation.

Not sure what “platonic philosophy” is. But ok.

 

[Copperhead]

No it was flawed when I believed the rapture nonsense. As a preterist I am much more informed

The only barrier to truth is when one thinks they already have it. I may have some pretty solidified views on eschatology, but I also realize that we all will probably have egg all over our face in the final analysis. The plan is totally up to YHVH. Even Yeshua stated that He did not know the day or the hour. So it is hubris on anyone's part to think they have these things all worked out.

 

[Hidden In Him]

No it was flawed when I believed the rapture nonsense. As a preterist I am much more informed

There is more to learn still. Preterists are correct in seeing the partial fulfillment of end-times prophecies during New Testament times. They are incorrect to assume that those partial fulfillments were the complete ones Christ was ultimately alluding to, and with all due respect you make our Lord Jesus Christ out to be a liar when you have Him saying that all the signs would be fulfilled within a few decades, yet His return has been delayed and delayed and delayed... not just for a 100 more years, or 200 more years, or even a 1,000. Your theology would have Him still fiddling around 2,000 years later and counting...

I respect scholarship. I do not respect thinking that portrays the Lord Jesus Christ as someone who is not to be trusted for meaning what He says.

 

[Trekson]

And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
[16]...the wrath of the Lamb:
[17]...the great day of his wrath is come;

And this is where it gets real, The 5th seal martyrs know God's wrath hasn't begun yet and vs. 17 "is come" is in the present/future tense showing not that it has been happening but now AFTER the signs of the 6th seal, they recognize it is about to start. The wrath of the Lamb are the trumpet judgments and then in Rev. 7:14 we see the raptured church arriving in heaven after the seals and after the great trib which is satan's wrath upon the church, Rev. 12:17.

 

[historyb]

The only barrier to truth is when one thinks they already have it. I may have some pretty solidified views on eschatology, but I also realize that we all will probably have egg all over our face in the final analysis. The plan is totally up to YHVH. Even Yeshua stated that He did not know the day or the hour. So it is hubris on anyone's part to think they have these things all worked out.

Evangelicals have hubris in spades

not just for a 100 more years, or 200 more years, or even a 1,000. Your theology would have Him still fiddling around 2,000 years later and counting..

Hardly that is your guys silliness. Rapture indeed, nothing but a fools errand

 

[Enoch111]

Hey, Enoch. No, that's actually not the verse. I'd need to go back and find it... It's the verse that says 70 weeks have been determined.

That's verse 24, which gives the overview of God's plan for Israel from the end of their captivity to the end of the age. Naturally, it also involves the whole world.

Seventy weeks [490 years] are determined upon thy people [Israel] and upon thy holy city [Jerusalem],
[1]to finish the transgression,
[2]and to make an end of sins,
[3]and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
[4] and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
[5] and to seal up the vision and prophecy,
[6] and to anoint the most Holy.

483 years were accomplished from the Decree of Cyrus to the Crucifixion of Messiah Jesus of Nazareth. Seven years (one week) remain to be fulfilled in the future, following which all of the above will be accomplished.

When will "everlasting righteousness" be established in Israel and in the world? Only after the Second Coming of Christ, the establishment of the Millennium, the establishment of the literal Kingdom of God on earth, and the establishment of the New Heavens and the New Earth "wherein dwelleth righteousness".

 

[Enoch111]

Hardly that is your guys silliness. Rapture indeed, nothing but a fools errand

Do you even have a clue?

 

[historyb]

Do you even have a clue?

More than the rapture, trib nonsense

 

[Enoch111]

More than the rapture, trib nonsense

As Saint Peter said, "Scoffers will come in the last days..."

 

[Trekson]

The verse in question is Daniel 9:27, and I have inserted notes for clarity:
And he [the prince that shall come = the Antichrist] shall confirm the covenant with many for one week [seven years]: and in the midst of the week [after 3 1/2 years] he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease [within the future temple at Jerusalem], and for the overspreading of abominations [the image of the Beast] he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined [God's wrath] shall be poured upon the desolate.

There is no misunderstanding when you take all the connected prophecies in Daniel and Revelation and harmonize them. The first 3 1/2 years is the same as the 42 months assigned to the Beast and Satan:And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. (Rev 13:5) This is the time when the Antichrist compels the inhabitants of the world to take the Mark of the Beast (Rev 13:14-18)

Now you have to take the subsequent desolations (devastations) which are triggered by the Abomination of Desolation, and place those within the next 3 1/2 years, which correspond to both the Great Tribulation and the Day of the LORD, as well as the 7th trumpet judgments (the seven vials or bowls). Which means that the reign of the Antichrist is over and God's wrath is poured out upon the world, following which the heavens and the earth are shaken, and the heavenly bodies moved out of their places .

I just want to point out that scripture never breaks it down into 2 3 1/2 yr. periods. We do that. The word "midst" doesn't mean exact middle but somewhere within the context of the 70th week. Yes, it makes a pretty prophetic picture but not necessarily an accurate one.

 

[Enoch111]

So, if we cannot show, with biblical faithfulness that certain “implicit” texts are proof for our particular view...

But we can show -- and we have shown -- how the implicit confirms what is not explicitly stated. But scoffers will come in the last days, and no matter what you show them, they will scoff.

 

[historyb]

As Saint Peter said, "Scoffers will come in the last days..."

He should of said something about people making up fantasy ideas like the rapture and the trib.

 

[CoreIssue]

When did Christ return become imminent?

A lot of different opinions on that.

For me, 1948 when Israel was restored. That set a countdown clock in motion.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Hardly that is your guys silliness. Rapture indeed, nothing but a fools errand

You regard yourself as "wise" in portray the Living God as a fraud, yet regard it as "silly" not to...

 

[CoreIssue]

He should of said something about people making up fantasy ideas like the rapture and the trib.

Catholicism hates the rapture and the Tribulation Period. They totally defy and undermine a lot of catholic beliefs.

Calling them fantasy is total absurdity. That dismisses Daniel, Matthew, that revelation and a lot of old testament prophecy.

 

[historyb]

You regard yourself as "wise" in portray the Living God as a fraud, yet regard it as "silly" not to...

Not God, many evangelicals as fraud. Like ones who think you have to think like they do that there is all this silliness. Me I don't care if you think like I do but I will voice my opinion on matters

 

[historyb]

Catholicism hates the rapture and the Tribulation Period. They totally defy and undermine a lot of catholic beliefs.

Calling them fantasy is total absurdity. That dismisses Daniel, Matthew, that revelation and a lot of old testament prophecy.

That's nice, ain't catholic. I dismiss some of the evangelical nonsense

 

[Enoch111]

I just want to point out that scripture never breaks it down into 2 3 1/2 yr. periods.

Assuming you agree that "one week" (literally one heptad or seven) means seven years, we know precisely from Scripture that Satan and the Antichist are allotted 42 months for their nefarious machinations (Rev 13:5).

But that is not the end of the matter. We also have "time, times, and half a time" (or the dividing of time), and we have one thousand two hundred and three score days, all connected to the Tribulation and the reign of the Antichrist. See Revelation 11-13 as well as Daniel.

So 1260 days = 42 months = time (1 yr) + times (2 years) + half a time (6 months) = 3 1/2 years.

And 7 years - 3 1/2 years = 3 1/2 years.

 

[CoreIssue]

That's nice, ain't catholic. I dismiss some of the evangelical nonsense

I'm not an evangelical. Im nondenominational and solidly literal bible only.

Depending on which view you have, I'm solidly dispensational and pre tribulation rapture.

 

[historyb]

I'm not an evangelical. Im nondenominational and solidly literal bible only.

Depending on which view you have, I'm solidly dispensational and pre tribulation rapture.

Ok...