The Gate of Heaven שַׁעַר הַשָּׁמָיִם

[VictoryinJesus]

In this case yes because Christ said he had to go to the father to prepare a place for his bride.

By the Jewish marriage custom that means build it.

It also means the church will not enter until the marriage ceremony, which will be during the tribulation.

Will consider what you said. Some good points.

 

[CoreIssue]

Will consider what you said. Some good points.

Marriage Super of the Lamb

 

[VictoryinJesus]

In this case yes because Christ said he had to go to the father to prepare a place for his bride.

By the Jewish marriage custom that means build it.

It also means the church will not enter until the marriage ceremony, which will be during the tribulation.

Isaiah 60:1-4
[1] Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee. [2] For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. [3] And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising. [4] Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side.

John 19:34
[34] But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Marriage Super of the Lamb

I’ll read it. But it will have to be tomorrow. Thank you.

 

[CoreIssue]

Isaiah 60:1-4
[1] Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee. [2] For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. [3] And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising. [4] Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side.

John 19:34
[34] But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

The Glory of Zion
1 “Arise, shine, for your light has come, and the glory of the LORD rises upon you.
2 See, darkness covers the earth and thick darkness is over the peoples, but the LORD rises upon you and his glory appears over you.
3 Nations will come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your dawn.
4 “Lift up your eyes and look about you: All assemble and come to you; your sons come from afar, and your daughters are carried on the hip.

You can also add Israel was supposed to be a light unto the world and not hide that light under a basket.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The Glory of Zion
1 “Arise, shine, for your light has come, and the glory of the LORD rises upon you.
2 See, darkness covers the earth and thick darkness is over the peoples, but the LORD rises upon you and his glory appears over you.
3 Nations will come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your dawn.
4 “Lift up your eyes and look about you: All assemble and come to you; your sons come from afar, and your daughters are carried on the hip.

You can also add Israel was supposed to be a light unto the world and not hide that light under a basket.

שְׂאִי-סָבִיב עֵינַיִךְ, וּרְאִי--כֻּלָּם, נִקְבְּצוּ בָאוּ-לָךְ; בָּנַיִךְ מֵרָחוֹק יָבֹאוּ, וּבְנוֹתַיִךְ עַל-צַד תֵּאָמַנָה. 4 Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: they all are gathered together, and come to thee; thy sons come from far, and thy daughters are borne on the side.

Isaiah 60 / Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre

All the translation are confusing. “Borne” “nursed” ...carried.

Need sleep though will have to revisit later.

 

[CoreIssue]

שְׂאִי-סָבִיב עֵינַיִךְ, וּרְאִי--כֻּלָּם, נִקְבְּצוּ בָאוּ-לָךְ; בָּנַיִךְ מֵרָחוֹק יָבֹאוּ, וּבְנוֹתַיִךְ עַל-צַד תֵּאָמַנָה. 4 Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: they all are gathered together, and come to thee; thy sons come from far, and thy daughters are borne on the side.

Isaiah 60 / Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre

All the translation are confusing. “Borne” “nursed” ...carried.

Need sleep though will have to revisit later.

Try the NIV.

 

[Episkopos]

Is. 28:16 So this is what the Lord GOD says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation; the one who believes will never be shaken.

i Pet. 2:5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

The New Jerusalem is the building of God with Jesus as the cornerstone and foundation. The will of God is to fit us, as living stones, (alive in the Spirit) together for His holy habitation.

Psalm 48:12 Walk about Zion, go around her, count her towers,

 

[Episkopos]

שְׂאִי-סָבִיב עֵינַיִךְ, וּרְאִי--כֻּלָּם, נִקְבְּצוּ בָאוּ-לָךְ; בָּנַיִךְ מֵרָחוֹק יָבֹאוּ, וּבְנוֹתַיִךְ עַל-צַד תֵּאָמַנָה. 4 Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: they all are gathered together, and come to thee; thy sons come from far, and thy daughters are borne on the side.

Isaiah 60 / Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre

All the translation are confusing. “Borne” “nursed” ...carried.

Need sleep though will have to revisit later.

The Hebrew says....Al-tsad te-amanah.....which means ...until they side with your faith. (or your faithfulness)


I don't see where they get borne on the side...

So I read it like this....Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: they all are gathered together, and come to thee; Your sons come from far (and daughters) until they side with your faith.

 

[Episkopos]

I have a final scriptural challenge to post on this thread.

When the author of Hebrews gives examples of faith, he uses the case of Enoch who was translated to God because he pleased the Lord.

Heb. 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Enoch was taken up to be with God....physically.

But in Christ the same thing happens....but spiritually. By FAITH. Jesus is pleasing to God. Those who abide in Christ are therefore also pleasing to God. Our testimony is that that pleasing brings us into God's presence through being translated to His dwelling place....in Zion which is above. (His kingdom)

Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Can anyone see the parallel here?

 

[Enoch111]

The last word in Hebrew translated as "on it" is actually "in Him."

I checked the Hebrew and it still means "on it". After all it was a ladder.

 

[bbyrd009]

Enoch was taken up to be with God....physically.

hmm

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The point to me is that Jesus is that ladder. If Jacob saw those going up and down on it, it is still Jesus. He is the way from earth to heavenly places.

 

[Episkopos]

I checked the Hebrew and it still means "on it". After all it was a ladder.

You'd have to know Hebrew to get the point here. The translators are forced to make compromises with the text. Otherwise it makes no sense as written. But it is in studying these strange wordings that we find the original meaning intact.

The prefix Bet....mean "in"

The suffix vav denotes a masculine object in the third person......himself....he or him.

BO then only means "in him". Of course if it is used in another context, a new meaning has to be derived by way of making it make sense.

Imagine if God had made the word so shallow that all one would have to do to find the deeper things of God was just to google "deeper things of God." ;)

 

[marks]

It depends on what level of justification we are speaking of. The truth is multi-faceted (that's why there is so much disagreement and confusion) The truth is like a wheel inside a wheel.

What does this mean?

What are "levels of justification"? What do you mean the truth is like a wheel inside a wheel?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The Hebrew says....Al-tsad te-amanah.....which means ...until they side with your faith. (or your faithfulness)


I don't see where they get borne on the side...

So I read it like this....Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: they all are gathered together, and come to thee; Your sons come from far (and daughters) until they side with your faith.

I was hoping you would respond to that one since you study the language. Thank you. How did the translator(s) come up with nurse and borne at the side then?. Only asking because it gets so confusing reading kjv version and standing behind something that seems to reveal Him and then find out it is an error. It has happened multiple times. In that passage it was critical (imo) in the Spiritual birth of the body from Christ side (water and blood). But then it is not there.

 

[Episkopos]

What does this mean?

What are "levels of justification"? What do you mean the truth is like a wheel inside a wheel?

Oh my...the whole basis of truth is based on more than one dimension. There is the eternal AND the temporal where mankind is concerned.

Think about this....Why are there always 2 words to describe the will of God....like Spirit AND truth.

All the ways of God are mercy and truth. There are always 2 things going on. Men can't do this. Men can only try arranging things in one realm....the physical....which could be attached anywhere spiritually...even to the devil himself. The road to hell (for people who try going to heaven) is paved with good intentions.

I hope you are seeing this a bit better... :)

 

[Episkopos]

I was hoping you would respond to that one since you study the language. Thank you. How did the translator(s) come up with nurse and borne at the side then?. Only asking because it gets so confusing reading kjv version and standing behind something that seems to reveal Him and then find out it is an error. It has happened multiple times. It that passage it was critical (imo) in the Spiritual birth of the body from Christ side (water and blood). But then it is not there.

The hidden word in the text you provided is emounah....faith. Why do I call it a hidden word? Because it doesn't seem to fit with the resat of the sentence. This happens a lot in Hebrew scriptures. God sends in a monkey wrench into the text to show an eternal dimension.

For instance when Balaam's donkey cries out "why have you struck me these 3 times".... in Hebrew it's why have you struck me these 3 pilgrimage festivals" (shalosh regalim)

Rabbis still scratch their heads over that one.

 

[marks]

You'd have to know Hebrew to get the point here. The translators are forced to make compromises with the text. Otherwise it makes no sense as written. But it is in studying these strange wordings that we find the original meaning intact.

The prefix Bet....mean "in"

The suffix vav denotes a masculine object in the third person......himself....he or him.

BO then only means "in him". Of course if it is used in another context, a new meaning has to be derived by way of making it make sense.

Imagine if God had made the word so shallow that all one would have to do to find the deeper things of God was just to google "deeper things of God." ;)

Imagine if God wanted to make a Word such that any by the Spirit can understand . . .

I'm troubled by your speaking so much of the "deeper things of God", defining our relationship with God as dependant on understanding these deeper and hidden things.

I really believe what we need to know is clearly written.

Much love!
Mark

 

[marks]

Oh my...the whole basis of truth is based on more than one dimension. There is the eternal AND the temporal where mankind is concerned.

Think about this....Why are there always 2 words to describe the will of God....like Spirit AND truth.

All the ways of God are mercy and truth. There are always 2 things going on. Men can't do this. Men can only try arranging things in one realm....the physical....which could be attached anywhere spiritually...even to the devil himself. The road to hell (for people who try going to heaven) is paved with good intentions.

I hope you are seeing this a bit better... :)

Let's try again . . .

Can you explain to me what the 2 or more levels of Justification are?