Israel is the Church

[Dave L]

You have been given tons of scripture Dave. But you continue to twist it or you just ignore those posts , then you claim like the above that you were not given scriptures - give me a break. Sorry, man, I have a life which requires me to be somewhere at the moment. You're an antisemite Dave. You and I are on opposite sides, as the scripture teaches, I, like my God, am a Zionist.

You need to understand Jewish history according to the bible. It's simple. I gave a link that spells it out clearly. Here it is again. Why Jews were Made, not Born

 

[tzcho2]

If you do not like Jewish history, that's fine. Write your own version and be happy.

You rewrite your versions of scripture by twisting the meaning all the time.
Like the other God-fearing, Bible-believing, born again followers of Christ Jesus, I go by ONLY the Bible to form my opinions Dave. But you seem to like extra- biblical material when it suits your anti-semitic theme. Always only starting attack Israel threads--hmm.

 

[Dave L]

You rewrite your versions of scripture by twisting the meaning all the time.
Like the other God-fearing, Bible-believing, born again followers of Christ Jesus, I go by ONLY the Bible to form my opinions Dave. But you seem to like extra- biblical material when it suits your anti-semitic theme. Always only starting attack Israel threads--hmm.

There is no rewriting in that simple outline. If so, refute any part of it with scripture.

 

[prism]

Abraham's seed = the Hebrews = Israel in Genesis.

You asked me...

To whom are those who accept Jesus grafted back into? Themselves, or the Church?

So what are you trying to say? That you are a Hebrew?

 

[Dave L]

You asked me...

So what are you trying to say? That you are a Hebrew?

Abraham's seed were first called Hebrews and then Both Hebrews and Israel in Genesis. So Israel is Abraham's seed and Paul limits this to believers in the NT.

 

[prism]

Abraham's seed were first called Hebrews and then Both Hebrews and Israel in Genesis. So Israel is Abraham's seed and Paul limits this to believers in the NT.

Abraham's seed does not go through Ishmael but through Isaac, then through Jacob. It is those believing through that line that are the true Israel of God, such as found here...

Galatians 6:16 KJV
[16] And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Romans 9:7-8 KJV
[7] Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. [8] That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Translation: you don't believe in the rapture therefore those that do are not jobs.

So by your definition I'm a nut job firm in his delusion.

I never said that.

I just do not follow the new age gibberish that many so called rapture mobs push, not all rapture mobs are the same as well, but I will stay with the original Catholic interpretation on the subject, as it's in depth and the new age type is just childish brat like trash made up gibberish that is the work of Satan, not to mention that such trash is adopted by weak narrow minded short sighted gutless types, who love the idea that they are not going to be harmed but are happy to see others harmed, I have seen such in such people peddling it to me time and time again.

What I am saying is that people are easy mislead into such trash and that no Christen with true Virtue would not swallow it all. it's evil ! and the people that I have met peddling it are all gutless deranged twerps who have a hatred of their fellow man and take pleasure in talking about such destruction how moronic can one be ! it's Satanic ! not to mention that the ones that I know peddle this gibberish of the Jews will save them. well that's Anti-Christ as the Jews never could not save themselves, they needed Jesus for that, but they killed him, just as they did all who God sent in fact.
So no I am not fooled by such at all.

I believe that if all were within Christ Jesus their is not a problem ever, but the problem starts, with them who are not in Christ Jesus.
If all were in Christ Jesus their will never come the Hellfire.
If people are outside of Christ Jesus, then comes the Hellfire.

We have people claiming to be the Jews and we have people claiming to be Christians as well, but the fact of the matter is that the Bible informs us that not all are who claim that they are, both the OT and the NT point such out in fact.

Anyone who does not abide in the will of Jesus Christ is going to Hell.

 

[farouk]

No where in Scripture is there a concept called 'spiritual Israel', it's a bogus false concept pushed by those with a false agenda.

Paul speaks of 'a Jew inwardly' (Romans 2.29), but I agree; it's not the same as so called spiritual Israel.

 

[Dave L]

Abraham's seed does not go through Ishmael but through Isaac, then through Jacob. It is those believing through that line that are the true Israel of God, such as found here...

Galatians 6:16 KJV
[16] And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Romans 9:7-8 KJV
[7] Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. [8] That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Jesus is the seed that came through Isaac. Paul I.D.s Jesus as THE seed. The rest are peripheral and served him as the chaff serves the wheat.

 

[prism]

Paul speaks of 'a Jew inwardly' (Romans 2.29), but I agree; it's not the same as so called spiritual Israel.

Even there, the context (vss 17-29) is the natural Jew, who is a true Jew (spiritual) when they have the faith as Abraham did.

 

[prism]

Jesus is the seed that came through Isaac. Paul I.D.s Jesus as THE seed. The rest are peripheral and served him as the chaff serves the wheat.

And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
(Gal 6:16)

So you think in that verse is speaking of Jesus, as the Israel of God? I take it as the members of natural Israel who are truly believing.
Do you have a Commentary source backing up your position on Gal 6:16?

 

[farouk]

And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
(Gal 6:16)

So you think in that verse is speaking of Jesus, as the Israel of God? I take it as the members of natural Israel who are truly believing.
Do you have a Commentary source backing up your position on Gal 6:16?

Different commentators are likely to take various views of Galatians 6.16.

 

[prism]

Different commentators are likely to take various views of Galatians 6.16.

But I don't believe any of the commentators will identify 'Jesus' as 'Israel' in that passage as Dave_L attempted to do.

 

[amadeus]

But I don't believe any of the commentators will identify 'Jesus' as 'Israel' in that passage as Dave_L attempted to do.

Never mind the commentators. What do these two verses mean then?

"When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt." Hosea 11:1

"And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son." Matt 2:15

Is the latter referring to the former?

And what are these two verses saying?

"And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:" Ex 4:22

"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren." Rom 8:29

 

[tzcho2]

Never mind the commentators. What do these two verses mean then?

"When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt." Hosea 11:1
"And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son." Matt 2:15
Is the latter referring to the former?
And what are these two verses saying?
"And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:" Ex 4:22
"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren." Rom 8:29

Hi Amadeus, it is exactly as it says in Exodus 4:22 The LORD God refers to the nation of Israel who are the people God chose out of all people, as His first born.
Romans 8:29 Is referring to those who are saved through Christ Jesus, whom God did foreknow, also called the elect in scripture , i.e. the born again in Christ are to be conformed to the perfect image of His Son Jesus, who died and resurrected on the third day and we believers will be resurrected with Him. He is the firstborn among many brethren for the kingdom of heaven. This is why we are called little Christs-ie. Christians.

Exodus: 4: 21-The LORD instructed Moses, “When you go back to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders that I have put within your power. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go. 22 Then tell Pharaoh that this is what the LORD says: ‘Israel is My firstborn son, 23 and I told you to let My son go so that he may worship Me. But you have refused to let him go, so I will kill your firstborn son!’”…

 

[prism]

Never mind the commentators. What do these two verses mean then?

"When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt." Hosea 11:1

"And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son." Matt 2:15

Is the latter referring to the former?

And what are these two verses saying?

"And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:" Ex 4:22

"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren." Rom 8:29

I'm referring to the use of 'Israel' in Gal 6:16. Not elsewhere if context means anything.

 

[amadeus]

Hi Amadeus, it is exactly as it says in Exodus 4:22 The LORD God refers to the nation of Israel who are the people God chose out of all people, as His first born.
Romans 8:29 Is referring to those who are saved through Christ Jesus, whom God did foreknow, also called the elect in scripture , i.e. the born again in Christ are to be conformed to the perfect image of His Son Jesus, who died and resurrected on the third day and we believers will be resurrected with Him. He is the firstborn among many brethren for the kingdom of heaven. This is why we are called little Christs-ie. Christians.

Exodus: 4: 21-The LORD instructed Moses, “When you go back to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders that I have put within your power. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go. 22 Then tell Pharaoh that this is what the LORD says: ‘Israel is My firstborn son, 23 and I told you to let My son go so that he may worship Me. But you have refused to let him go, so I will kill your firstborn son!’”…

Thanks for the response, but they still seem to support what @Dave L is saying. They may mean something else as well, but I wouldn't throw out either one in favor of the other.

 

[amadeus]

I'm referring to the use of 'Israel' in Gal 6:16. Not elsewhere if context means anything.

"And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God." Gal 6:16
Types and shadows exist throughout scriptures. Here is what Dave posted:

Jesus is the seed that came through Isaac. Paul I.D.s Jesus as THE seed. The rest are peripheral and served him as the chaff serves the wheat.

Anyway you look at it, Israel may be seen as Jesus, at least in a type or shadow of the reality. Israel was born to Isaac. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob/Israel were in the genealogy of Jesus as per either Matt 1 or Luke 3. What difference would the written support of some commentator make?

 

[Phoneman777]

The NT "Israel of God" are those who "walk according to this rule" - the rule of "new creature" in Christ (Galatians 6:15-16), and are "Abraham's seed" because they "be Christ's" - belong to Christ (Galatians 3:29).

Those descendants of the Khazarian Empire - which occupy the ancient land of Israel today - who call Jesus "Son of a Whore" and "The Great (Messiah) Imposter" even to this day don't seem to be walking according to any rule of being a new creature in Christ, and they certainly don't claim to have anything to do whatsoever with a Person to Whom they speak about so derogatorily.

 

[tzcho2]

Thanks for the response, but they still seem to support what @Dave L is saying. They may mean something else as well, but I wouldn't throw out either one in favor of the other.

Sorry to hear you say that Amadeus, because replacement theology is a heretical teaching , it is a false doctrine, and I believe it is also a Satanic inspired theology which promotes opposition to God's Prophetic Plan & His Purposes. It also calls into question God's Character to keep His Oaths. God knows the end from the beginning, He knew all that would take place, no surprises. Imo, it is a mistake to put words in God's mouth, or to spiritualize the name Israel, or the Nation of Israel.
The Holy Spirit in us confirms God's Word and God's Word says God is Not done with Israel & that God is not fickle like man, God does not change His mind or go back upon His oaths. God is HOLY & Perfectly Righteous, He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. God has Not permanently forsaken Israel, Apostle Paul said the same in Romans. The Bible tells us that GOD is Faithful. Why would GOD go back upon His Word? That would make God no better than man.
But GOD is GOD and He doesn't go back upon His Word. The Bible tells us that God punished Israel , but that was only for a time & not forever the Bible states, God does not take His loving kindness utterly from them. Here in Psalm 89 God speaks of His promises to David and his descendants and they will be established forever as the moon.

Psalm 89: 30-37
"If his children forsake my law and walk not in my judgments, if they break my statutes and keep not my commandments, then will I visit their transgression with the rod and their inequity with stripes.
Never the less my loving kindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail, my covenant will I NOT BREAK, Nor alter the thing that has gone out of my lips.
Once have I sworn by my Holiness: I WILL NOT Lie unto David:
His seed shall endure for ever, And his throne as the sun before Me.
It SHALL BE ESTABLISHED Forever AS THE moon, And as a FAITHFUL WITNESS in the sky."

Jeremiah 31: 36 "36“Only if this fixed order departed from My presence, declares the LORD, would Israel’s descendants ever cease to bea nation before Me.” 37 This is what the LORD says: “Only if the heavens above could be measured and the foundations of the earth below searched out, would I reject all of Israel’s descendants because of all they have done,” declares the LORD.…"