Israel is the Church

[amadeus]

I never said you are a heretic. I said the doctrine of replacement theology is a heresy, it is a false doctrine. The definition of heresy is in the dictionary and that is the one I will stick to.
heresy
[her-uh-see]

noun, plural her·e·sies.
1.opinion or doctrine at variance with the orthodox or accepted doctrine, especially of a church or religious system.
2. the maintaining of such an opinion or doctrine.
3.Roman Catholic Church . the willful and persistent rejection of any article of faith by a baptized member of the church.
4.any belief or theory that is strongly at variance with established beliefs, customs, etc.

But what if the orthodox or accepted doctrine disagrees with God? Consider how many of the Jewish leadership stood against and conspired against Jesus. Was Jesus a heretic?

 

[amadeus]

How condescending.

Was it? I apologize for that as it certainly was not my intention.

The Scriptures are communicated plainly enough where we can glean insights and the knowledge of God and His ways, otherwise why did He give us His Word in written form as well as the living Word attesting to His written Word.

Same problem people had with understanding the parables which Jesus spoke. For his serious and close followers He provided the interpretation. The others remain without understanding. Today we have the Holy Spirit as an interpreter when God wants us to understand and we are willing to yield ourselves completely. The Holy Spirit quickens what we read according to God's but most congregations/churches of my experience regularly quench and teach people to quench the Holy Spirit contrary to what Apostle Paul wrote:

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

No, hiding behind 'spirituality' that demeans God's Word by downplaying it through ripping it out of it's context, just won't do.
It's true, we do not have perfect knowledge, but we do have what God has revealed.

Have I done that...or have I followed the lead of the Spirit?

Just out of curiosity, why didn't you pull the same argument with the one who I am taking issue with...and btw, how do you happen to have 'enough knowledge' to rebuke others since we all see through a glass darkly?

I also see through a glass darkly when I look away from Him and rather at my own purposes which are contrary to His. The only ones who do not are the ones who have completely overcome the world already as Jesus did. How many have done that?

When I am following the lead of the Spirit I am right, when I am not, I am wrong.

Give God the glory!

 

[prism]

Same problem people had with understanding the parables which Jesus spoke. For his serious and close followers

The problem with your reasoning is that Gal 6:16 is not a parable.

 

[Dave L]

OK, a Reformed blogger that has written a few pamphlets. Amazon.com: nathan pitchford

Besides, in your above quote, he is simply laying out the two schools of thought on the conjunction'and' in Gal 6:16, he is not making a claim that in that verse Paul is inferring that Israel is Jesus.

Matthew and Paul do this. Matthew directly, and Paul by identifying Jesus and believers as Abraham's seed = Israel in the OT.

 

[amadeus]

The problem with your reasoning is that Gal 6:16 is not a parable.

The problem with your response may be that you expect every answer to be what your mind says is reasonable? What if your mind's definition of reasonable is in error?

What if the entire written Bible is 'message in tongues' from God awaiting an interpreter and the interpreter is NOT the logical carnal mind of man?

"But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." I Cor 14:28

Could that mean that if our words are not what God through the Holy Spirit put there, then it would be best to remain silent in any place where two or three are gathered together In His Name? You want to nit pick my words to the point where they mean nothing? Is that not what the Jewish teachers did with the law according to Jesus?

What if the entire written Bible is really a parable from God awaiting interpretation in people by the Holy Spirit?

Is Jesus not the Word of God? What is the difference between Him and the Bible you read every day? What does He mean in these two verses?

"And with many such parables spake he the word unto them, as they were able to hear it.
But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples." Mark 4:33-34

Are you really a disciple to whom He always expounds every little point of scripture? Why you and not me and not every other person on this forum with whom you may disagree?

 

[tzcho2]

But what if the orthodox or accepted doctrine disagrees with God? Consider how many of the Jewish leadership stood against and conspired against Jesus. Was Jesus a heretic?

Totally nonsensical question.
I hope one day your ears are opened & then your heart will be changed, then you will understand Biblical Christianity, the scriptures, & not just liberal Christianity which really is not.

 

[tzcho2]

Zola Levitt? No thanks. You need to study the bible for yourself.

I do study the BIBLE by my self. I came across that website for the First time today.
I gave you scripture and you cannot rebut it. Same old story by the ones who push the false teachings. But guess what , following & pushing false teachings are a symptom of a much bigger spiritual problem.

 

[tzcho2]

When Jesus says that he is the true vine in John 15, he is making an explicit connection to Israel being called a failed vine in Isaiah 5.

Jesus was talking about His disciples about the true followers in John 15 , He was contrasting true followers and those in name only who do not produce good fruit because they are not connected to the Vine ( Him) . In order to produce good fruit the real followers of Jesus are connected to HIM who is the Vine & we are the branches, & it is the Holy Spirit in us from being born again that produces the good fruit. Jesus says the branches that are not connected to the Vine ( Jesus) will be burned and thrown away.

He was not referring to Israel.

 

[tzcho2]

So Zola isn't following the doctrines and traditions of men?

Zola is a saved Jew a born again follower of the Lord Jesus Christ. Not surprised that would send a chill down your spine, with all the godly love you have for Jews and all.

 

[tzcho2]

Matthew and Paul do this. Matthew directly, and Paul by identifying Jesus and believers as Abraham's seed = Israel in the OT.

Give us these scriptures please which you are misrepresenting....thanks.

 

[tzcho2]

So Zola isn't following the doctrines and traditions of men?

Zola was a Jew who became a born again believer (evangelical christianity) lead by the indwelling Holy Spirit so he interprets the Bible scriptures literally as they are written, within the context and doesn't spiritualize Israel or transpose other meanings on to verses.

 

[prism]

The problem with your response may be that you expect every answer to be what your mind says is reasonable? What if your mind's definition of reasonable is in error?

What if the entire written Bible is 'message in tongues' from God awaiting an interpreter and the interpreter is NOT the logical carnal mind of man?

"But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." I Cor 14:28

Could that mean that if our words are not what God through the Holy Spirit put there, then it would be best to remain silent in any place where two or three are gathered together In His Name? You want to nit pick my words to the point where they mean nothing? Is that not what the Jewish teachers did with the law according to Jesus?

What if the entire written Bible is really a parable from God awaiting interpretation in people by the Holy Spirit?

Is Jesus not the Word of God? What is the difference between Him and the Bible you read every day? What does He mean in these two verses?

"And with many such parables spake he the word unto them, as they were able to hear it.
But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples." Mark 4:33-34

Are you really a disciple to whom He always expounds every little point of scripture? Why you and not me and not every other person on this forum with whom you may disagree?

When you are ready to discuss the passage rather than me, let me know.

 

[prism]

Matthew and Paul do this. Matthew directly, and Paul by identifying Jesus and believers as Abraham's seed = Israel in the OT.

For the third time I realize that. But that is not the application in Gal 6:16.
(this is a recording, this is a recording)

 

[APAK]

That's hilarious. Dave, if you were studying the Bible for yourself instead of following the doctrines and traditions of men, you would have a completely different set of beliefs. As things stand you are seriously confused, but you refuse to accept that, and get a grip on the truth. Are you willing to set aside all your theological baggage and study the Bible for yourself?

If you are a follower of the heretic Kazarian Jew and Zionist, then God help you. This Zola Levitt and his ministries even go so far as to say Jesus was an Israeli..really, is he joking..he is peddling trash. The political State of Israel is the most vile and hateful country in the Middle East. I would reconsider who you choose as a spiritual mentor. Just read the scriptures and allow the spirit of God guide you to the answers, in his time.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[CoreIssue]

If you are a follower of the heretic Kazarian Jew and Zionist, then God help you. This Zola Levitt and his ministries even go so far as to say Jesus was an Israeli..really, is he joking..he is peddling trash. The political State of Israel is the most vile and hateful country in the Middle East. I would reconsider who you choose as a spiritual mentor. Just read the scriptures and allow the spirit of God guide you to the answers, in his time.

Bless you,

APAK

Jesus was an Israeli.

 

[prism]

Even John Gill who is not a Dispensationalist, yet I respect, never attempts to equate Israel with Jesus in Gal 6:16. He says...

and upon the Israel of God; which is a further description of the persons, for whom he prays for these blessings; and is not to be understood by way of distinction from them, but as an amplification of their character; and as pointing out the Israel, by way of emphasis, the Israel, or Israelites indeed, the spiritual Israel, as distinct from Israel according to the flesh; see 1 Corinthians 10:18. The "Israel of God", or as the Arabic version reads it, "Israel the propriety of God"; which he has a right unto, and a claim upon; who are chosen by him, Israel his elect; who are redeemed by him, out of every kindred, tongue, people, and nation; who are called by his grace, and are styled Israel his called; who are justified in his Son, and by his righteousness; and for whose sake he is exalted as a Prince and a Saviour, to give them repentance and remission of sin; and who are, or will be saved by him, with an everlasting salvation; and is a name that includes all God's elect, whether Jews or Gentiles: though it may have a particular respect to such of the Israelites, or Jews, God had foreknown and reserved for himself; and who believed in Christ, and walked as new creatures, without confidence in the flesh. The Jews themselves own, that strangers, or proselytes, shall be called by the name of Israel; so they explain Isaiah 44:5, latter part.

 

[prism]

If you are a follower of the heretic Kazarian Jew and Zionist, then God help you. This Zola Levitt and his ministries even go so far as to say Jesus was an Israeli..really, is he joking..he is peddling trash. The political State of Israel is the most vile and hateful country in the Middle East. I would reconsider who you choose as a spiritual mentor. Just read the scriptures and allow the spirit of God guide you to the answers, in his time.

Bless you,

APAK

You realize anti Zionist = antisemitism don't you?

Jeremiah 31:35-37 NKJV
[35] Thus says the LORD, Who gives the sun for a light by day, The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night, Who disturbs the sea, And its waves roar (The LORD of hosts is His name): [36] "If those ordinances depart From before Me, says the LORD, Then the seed of Israel shall also cease From being a nation before Me forever." [37] Thus says the LORD: "If heaven above can be measured, And the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel For all that they have done, says the LORD.

 

[prism]

Jesus was an Israeli.

And so were the Apostles.

 

[Enoch111]

If you are a follower of the heretic Kazarian Jew and Zionist, then God help you.

Frankly I have no interest in what Zola Levitt believes. But since Dave is urging others to study the Bible above all else, he needs to take that medicine himself first.

 

[Dave L]

For the third time I realize that. But that is not the application in Gal 6:16.
(this is a recording, this is a recording)

What do you think it means. Let's start here.