Has anyone changed their mind...?

[CoreIssue]

= #2 = you save yourself with god's help (small g on purpose).

No, it means exactly what I said not what you think I said.

 

[Dave L]

No, it means exactly what I said not what you think I said.

Free will is your savior, not God.

 

[CoreIssue]

Free will is your savior, not God.

Not according to the Bible

 

[Helen]

I do get a kick out of so much literalism in Bible reading. Many people still think stars are going to crash into the Earth to make life here more miserable for people.

(The one that really makes me laugh though, is some of the descriptions of the New Jerusalem ...coming down to sit on the earth. The dimensions couldn't sit on the earth with its curvature , without wobbling about like trying to balance a block a perfect cube on the top of a a ball without it wobbling.
But shushhhh don't mention that I said that)

 

[CoreIssue]

(The one that really makes me laugh though, is some of the descriptions of the New Jerusalem ...coming down to sit on the earth. The dimensions couldn't sit on the earth with its curvature , without wobbling about like trying to balance a block a perfect cube on the top of a a ball without it wobbling.
But shushhhh don't mention that I said that)

Your problem is the Bible doesn't say a perfect cube.

But it does say the new Jerusalem will descend onto the new earth.

 

[Dave L]

Not according to the Bible

Find free will in those who are slaves to sin.

 

[CoreIssue]

Find free will in those who are slaves to sin.

Everyone is is slave to sin until they repent.

 

[Dave L]

Everyone is is slave to sin until they repent.

You cannot repent unless freed.

 

[CoreIssue]

You cannot repent unless freed.

You are not free until you repent.

 

[Dave L]

You are not free until you repent.

People love sin more than God. They cannot repent until God gives them a heart that hates sin and loves God.

“And the Lord thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers. And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” (Deuteronomy 30:5–6)

 

[Willie T]

Your problem is the Bible doesn't say a perfect cube.

But it does say the new Jerusalem will descend onto the new earth.

It kind of plainly gives dimensions.

 

[Helen]

@CoreIssue

I agree I am a 'touchy-feely' person.
But the thing is Core...I often don't agree with @Dave L, and I say so.
I often don't agree with @Enoch111 and say so...
The thing is, you have been on this site for a while now, yet you never unwind.
You still come across cold and stiff.
Both Dave L and Enoch show their warm sides, and humorous sides.
You can never unbend, which I find sad.
It never appears as if you 'enjoy' the Site.

By the way it's not only Dave L and Enoch that I sometimes disagree with..there are others here too...I'm just using them here as illustrations. :) )

I'm glad that you are here, but try showing a wee bit of warmth sometimes.
It's not painful.

 

[Enoch111]

Only 3 possibilities exist in salvation. 1) God alone saves people. 2) People save themselves with God's help, or 3), people save themselves without God's help. Calvinism/Augustinianism = #1. Arminianism/semipelagianism = #2. And Pelagianism/Socinianism = # 3.

What are you?

Forget about the labels and the doctrines on men. The only thing that matters is what is actually revealed in Scripture. And the answer to your question is found in many Scriptures, but let's take just one (Ephesians 2:8,9) keeping in mind that these are the words of God through Paul, not the musings of Paul on his own:

GOD'S PART = GOD'S GRACE
For by grace are ye saved..

THE SINNER'S PART = FAITH IN CHRIST AND HIS FINISHED WORK
...through faith...

GOD'S PART = ETERNAL LIFE IS GOD'S GIFT
and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

SALVATION CANNOT BE EARNED BY GOOD WORKS
...Not of works...

NO MAN CAN THEREFORE BOAST ABOUT HIS SALVATION
...lest any man should boast.

Because you have been deceived by Calvinism, you claim that those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ are "saving themselves". That is absolute rubbish. Saving faith comes through (a) the preaching of the Gospel (which is the power of God unto salvation) and (b) the convicting and convincing of the Holy Spirit (which is also the power of God unto salvation).

 

[Dave L]

Forget about the labels and the doctrines on men. The only thing that matters is what is actually revealed in Scripture. And the answer to your question is found in many Scriptures, but let's take just one (Ephesians 2:8,9) keeping in mind that these are the words of God through Paul, not the musings of Paul on his own:

GOD'S PART = GOD'S GRACE
For by grace are ye saved..

THE SINNER'S PART = FAITH IN CHRIST AND HIS FINISHED WORK
...through faith...

GOD'S PART = ETERNAL LIFE IS GOD'S GIFT
and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

SALVATION CANNOT BE EARNED BY GOOD WORKS
...Not of works...

NO MAN CAN THEREFORE BOAST ABOUT HIS SALVATION
...lest any man should boast.

Because you have been deceived by Calvinism, you claim that those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ are "saving themselves". That is absolute rubbish. Saving faith comes through (a) the preaching of the Gospel (which is the power of God unto salvation) and (b) the convicting and convincing of the Holy Spirit (which is also the power of God unto salvation).

= #2

 

[Enoch111]

= #2

Your quick response WITHOUT DIGESTING what was said means that (a) your mind is closed and (b) to continue under the delusions of deceptive doctrine. So your response proves what the OP says.

 

[Helen]

Your problem is the Bible doesn't say a perfect cube.

Not my problem :)

John goes on to describe in some detail the Holy City, New Jerusalem, that will come down out of heaven from God.
He says, “the city lies foursquare, its length the same as its width;… fifteen hundred miles; its length and width and height are equal” (Revelation 21.16).

Now, how you can make any other shape but square out of that I don't know.

 

[Dave L]

Your quick response WITHOUT DIGESTING what was said means that (a) your mind is closed and (b) to continue under the delusions of deceptive doctrine. So your response proves what the OP says.

There are only 3 possibilities no matter how you try to escape being a #2.

 

[CoreIssue]

It kind of plainly gives dimensions.

It does not say cube.

There are three other shapes it could be.

Does not require the foundation to be perfectly level.

It does not say the ground underneath isn't excavated.

 

[Willie T]

Not my problem :)

John goes on to describe in some detail the Holy City, New Jerusalem, that will come down out of heaven from God.
He says, “the city lies foursquare, its length the same as its width;… fifteen hundred miles; its length and width and height are equal” (Revelation 21.16).

Sounds like a cube to me.

 

[Helen]

It does not say cube.

There are three other shapes it could be.

Does not require the foundation to be perfectly level.

It does not say the ground underneath isn't excavated.

See post #56

 

[Episkopos]

Not my problem :)

John goes on to describe in some detail the Holy City, New Jerusalem, that will come down out of heaven from God.
He says, “the city lies foursquare, its length the same as its width;… fifteen hundred miles; its length and width and height are equal” (Revelation 21.16).

What is interesting here is the "cube" dimensions. Just like the holy of holies is 15 cubits square....the New Jerusalem is 15 hundred miles square.

That's "cube" bits... :)