Roman Catholicism

[CoreIssue]

I am in full agreement with you on this. We need to express our disagreement with Catholic doctrines and practices with biblical support.

The primary issue which non-Catholics have with the RCC is that it claims to be the one true Church of Christ. But through its own doctrines and practices it shows that the opposite is true.

And how do you prove what you say is false without citing documentation?

I've done tons arguing with BOL. His responses are always I need to study Catholic sources and his name calling.

What I've done here is to have a Catholic church representative state the facts with theologians and scholars rebutting them.

Scholars and theologians are stating what I believe.

 

[Enoch111]

And how do you prove what you say is false without citing documentation?

What we do is take what is written in the Catechism of the Catholic Church and show from Scripture that it is FALSE DOCTRINE.

Take the example of Purgatory. There is not one mention of such a figment of the imagination in Scripture. That should be sufficient for any rational Catholic. But, no, they will continue to believe this nonsense, even when the Bible proves that it is nonsense.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I am in full agreement with you on this. We need to express our disagreement with Catholic doctrines and practices with biblical support.

The primary issue which non-Catholics have with the RCC is that it claims to be the one true Church of Christ. But through its own doctrines and practices it shows that the opposite is true.

Now, THAT'S a point we can argue about.
"RCC" is not because it is simply a misnomer.

 

[BreadOfLife]

And how do you prove what you say is false without citing documentation?

I've done tons arguing with BOL. His responses are always I need to study Catholic sources and his name calling.

What I've done here is to have a Catholic church representative state the facts with theologians and scholars rebutting them.

Scholars and theologians are stating what I believe.

Actually - that's a LIE.
I ALWAYS explain the Catholic position on EVERY topic I debate.

I make sure that anti-Catholics like YOU get the full explanation so you won't have an excuse to say the same stupid thing next time around . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

What we do is take what is written in the Catechism of the Catholic Church and show from Scripture that it is FALSE DOCTRINE.

Take the example of Purgatory. There is not one mention of such a figment of the imagination in Scripture. That should be sufficient for any rational Catholic. But, no, they will continue to believe this nonsense, even when the Bible proves that it is nonsense.

Actually - that is FALSE.
The Bible absolutely supports the teaching of Purgatory (Final Purification).

In 2 Macc. 42-46, we see that Judas Maccabeus prays for the men of his army, killed in battle. Verse 44 says, “… for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death.”

Matt. 5:25-26 tells us that unless we have settled our matters, we will be “handed over to the prison guard and will not be released until we have paid the last penny.”

We are told in 1 Cor. 3:12-15 that the day (judgment) will disclose the foundation that a person builds upon and how it will be revealed: “If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone's work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire.”

Additionally, Matt. 12:32 states, “whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come”, which indicates that there is purification after death for some. Matt. 18:32-35 and Luke 12:58-59 are additional verses that support this doctrine.

All of these verses point to the fact that those in Purgatory will suffer loss but will eventually be released (purified, purged from iniquity, saved). Purgatory is for the believer who dies in God’s favor (without the stain of mortal sin) but is in need of final purification before entering heaven.

 

[Helen]

Actually - that is FALSE.
The Bible absolutely supports the teaching of Purgatory (Final Purification).

In 2 Macc. 42-46, we see that Judas Maccabeus prays for the men of his army, killed in battle. Verse 44 says, “… for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death.”

Matt. 5:25-26 tells us that unless we have settled our matters, we will be “handed over to the prison guard and will not be released until we have paid the last penny.”

We are told in 1 Cor. 3:12-15 that the day (judgment) will disclose the foundation that a person builds upon and how it will be revealed: “If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone's work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire.”

Additionally, Matt. 12:32 states, “whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come”, which indicates that there is purification after death for some. Matt. 18:32-35 and Luke 12:58-59 are additional verses that support this doctrine.

All of these verses point to the fact that those in Purgatory will suffer loss but will eventually be released (purified, purged from iniquity, saved). Purgatory is for the believer who dies in God’s favor (without the stain of mortal sin) but is in need of final purification before entering heaven.

I have never called it purgatory , I don't find that in the bible..but I do see "The Refiners Fire".. so on that I agree with you...
But where you and I probably part ways is that I see that Jesus died for all men. But that is another issue and not this thread.

I just want to go on record ( again) in saying I am totally against CoreIssue ( or anyone else come to that) who keep on and on , (even again today I saw it against "Harvest ") telling people he was a JW/Bible student.

We can all READ, we all KNOW who the Catholic's are , who the JW's are, who the SDA are who the LDS are, who the Calvinist's are ...no one has hidden where they stand. So why do some have to keep on reminding the rest of us which box people hold to and try to undermine someones posts!
This Site is broad enough to ALLOW all of us...so what on earth does it matter about someone else's belief system.

I have said it a few time before and I will say it again..
."Some people" will be in for a big shock when the finally see GOD'S ruling , on just who 'is in' and who is 'out', and The Final Day.

 

[Enoch111]

The Bible absolutely supports the teaching of Purgatory (Final Purification).

Then we should find AT LEAST one verse that actually says "Purgatory". What we do have is verses with Gehenna (the Lake Fire), Hades or Sheol/Hades, and Tartarus, all termed "hell" in the KJV (which was very unfortunate).

We can disregard Maccabees, since it only mentions praying for the dead (a practice of unbelieving Jews, not Christians). And your reference to 1 Cor 3:12-15 is A MISAPPLICATION of Scripture. The judgments of the works of Christians in a metaphorical fire is taught there. Wood, hay, and stubble are worthless works. Gold, silver, and precious stones are worthy works.

So let's focus on Matthew 5. Is that speaking about the afterlife, or is it about life on this earth and what is administered by judges on earth?

Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

This is about adversarial relations on earth. In modern parlance Jesus is saying it is better to come to an out-of-court settlement when there is a dispute. Otherwise, the tables might turned, and the accused might become the defendant, and then the judge would turn around and demand restitution.

What we can conclude is that there is absolutely NO SUPPORT for Purgatory in the Bible. But you must admit that is was a wonderful cash cow for the Catholic Church!

 

[CoreIssue]

What we do is take what is written in the Catechism of the Catholic Church and show from Scripture that it is FALSE DOCTRINE.

Take the example of Purgatory. There is not one mention of such a figment of the imagination in Scripture. That should be sufficient for any rational Catholic. But, no, they will continue to believe this nonsense, even when the Bible proves that it is nonsense.

Which is exactly what I'm doing here. Posting Catholic sources with refutation.

The problem is if either of us stated without proof he just dismisses us as lying.

 

[CoreIssue]

Actually - that's a LIE.
I ALWAYS explain the Catholic position on EVERY topic I debate.

I make sure that anti-Catholics like YOU get the full explanation so you won't have an excuse to say the same stupid thing next time around . . .

And that is why I posted all of the videos. Now you can tell everyone the Catholic in those debates is telling lies, which you will not do.

 

[Stranger]

It leaves him living up to what light he has. If he/she loves truth and sincerely desires knowledge and understanding, God will honour that, and grant him/her new light. It will then be up to that believer to walk in that light, which eventually will result in abandoning Rome altogether.

And if he is enjoying a fellowship of other believers in Christ, why should he leave? Perhaps he disagrees in some areas. Yet he has the fellowship of other believers and Christ there.

You act as if the Roman Church is not Christian. It is.

Stranger

 

[Helen]

And if he is enjoying a fellowship of other believers in Christ, why should he leave? Perhaps he disagrees in some areas. Yet he has the fellowship of other believers and Christ there.

You act as if the Roman Church is not Christian. It is.

Stranger

AMEN!!
You said it!!
..

 

[Stranger]

The ones I worked with in the past left and went to another church. Usually nondenominational.

Which is fine. But they didn't have to. They could have stayed. There are Christians there. They could have maintained their fellowship and function as best they could within their means.

Stranger

 

[CoreIssue]

Which is fine. But they didn't have to. They could have stayed. There are Christians there. They could have maintained their fellowship and function as best they could within their means.

Stranger

Conquer from within.

Doesn't change the fact it is a cult.

 

[Stranger]

Conquer from within.

Doesn't change the fact it is a cult.

The origin of the Roman church is the Church at Rome whose faith was known through out the whole world. It is the Church that Paul wrote to and is why we have the book of Romans.

Stranger

 

[CoreIssue]

The origin of the Roman church is the Church at Rome whose faith was known through out the whole world. It is the Church that Paul wrote to and is why we have the book of Romans.

Stranger

It was not known throughout the world. Not in the Americas, not in China, not South of the equator, islands etc.

He did not write to the Roman Catholic Church, which didn't exist until 325.

 

[Stranger]

It was not known throughout the world. Not in the Americas, not in China, not South of the equator, islands etc.

He did not write to the Roman Catholic Church, which didn't exist until 325.

Take it up with God. (Rom. 1:8)

Stranger

 

[CoreIssue]

Take it up with God. (Rom. 1:8)

Stranger

You do realize that phrase means known world.

 

[Stranger]

You do realize that phrase means known world.

You do realize the faith of the Roman Church was known throughout the whole known world? And that is the origin of the Roman Church.

Stranger

 

[CoreIssue]

You do realize the faith of the Roman Church was known throughout the whole known world? And that is the origin of the Roman Church.

Stranger

I know the history. But it did not exist at the time of Paul.

It did not start in Rome and radiated out, it began the collaboration of churches in the Roman Empire under Constantine which resulted in the HQ to be located in Rome. Constantine later moved it all to Constantinople.

 

[Stranger]

I know the history. But it did not exist at the time of Paul.

It did not start in Rome and radiated out, it began the collaboration of churches in the Roman Empire under Constantine which resulted in the HQ to be located in Rome.

You just read it. (Rom. 1:8) That is the Roman Church. If you deny that you deny history.

Stranger