The necessity of the Trinity

[brakelite]

@Jane_Doe22 I agree with you we are not saved in accordance to our theological expertise. But that is not the point. We are saved through our relationship with our Saviour. "For this is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you did send". Our destiny does depend on knowing God. And Him knowing us. Several times Jesus warned that there would be some... Many.... To whom He would be forced to send away saying, I never knew you.
I would suggest that while we as Christians may never agree on the precise composition of the Trinity and how the various members thereof relate to one another, the exact nature thereof to be honest being beyond any of us to fully grasp (which fact flies in the face of all the overly confident declarations by so many that their version is the correct one... Or this Creed... Or that Creed) we can still know the Father and Son albeit imperfectly. And that is where I would presume to be also confident, that the God we serve is described as the Father... And He has a Son whom He sent into the world to die that we might live. I am also confident that both Father and Son have a Spirit which is holy. Beyond that my confidence fades into a state of treading softly before Him lest I be a fool.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Again, I am not talking about having knowledge when we are saved. I’ve said this several times now. What I am talking about is ppl claiming they are saved for YEARS,DECADES, and still have a twisted view of the Triune Godhead.

I am talking about people being saved. That is the MOST important question, before we debate academics. I practice what I preach and acknowledge the MANY people that have an extremely faulty knowledge of God as being His, despite their faulty knowledge and their sins.
If you were to be willing to first acknowledge @APAK as your brother in Christ, then we could move on to debating academics. But we got to cover that kindergarten level stuff first (to reference your earlier analogy).

 

[SovereignGrace]

I am talking about people being saved. That is the MOST important question, before we debate academics. I practice what I preach and acknowledge the MANY people that have an extremely faulty knowledge of God as being His, despite their faulty knowledge and their sins.
If you were to be willing to first acknowledge @APAK as your brother in Christ, then we could move on to debating academics. But we got to cover that kindergarten level stuff first (to reference your earlier analogy).

Well, he calls the Christ created. You deal with him.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I am talking about people being saved. That is the MOST important question, before we debate academics. I practice what I preach and acknowledge the MANY people that have an extremely faulty knowledge of God as being His, despite their faulty knowledge and their sins.
If you were to be willing to first acknowledge @APAK as your brother in Christ, then we could move on to debating academics. But we got to cover that kindergarten level stuff first (to reference your earlier analogy).

He says the Christ is not God, too.

 

[101G]

I agree with you we are not saved in accordance to our theological expertise. But that is not the point. We are saved through our relationship with our Saviour. "For this is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you did send".

this is true, so question, "how do one know him?. scripture, John 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life".

words here have an "s" at the end. God words are wisdom/knowledge and understanding. and yes, "For this is life eternal, that they might know thee". Ecclesiastes 7:12 "For wisdom is a defence, and money is a defence: but the excellency of knowledge is, that wisdom giveth life to them that have it".

2 Peter 1:3 "According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue":

PICJAG.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

@Jane_Doe22 I agree with you we are not saved in accordance to our theological expertise. But that is not the point. We are saved through our relationship with our Saviour. "For this is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you did send". Our destiny does depend on knowing God. And Him knowing us. Several times Jesus warned that there would be some... Many.... To whom He would be forced to send away saying, I never knew you.
I would suggest that while we as Christians may never agree on the precise composition of the Trinity and how the various members thereof relate to one another, the exact nature thereof to be honest being beyond any of us to fully grasp (which fact flies in the face of all the overly confident declarations by so many that their version is the correct one... Or this Creed... Or that Creed) we can still know the Father and Son albeit imperfectly. And that is where I would presume to be also confident, that the God we serve is described as the Father... And He has a Son whom He sent into the world to die that we might live. I am also confident that both Father and Son have a Spirit which is holy. Beyond that my confidence fades into a state of treading softly before Him lest I be a fool.

A fair post.

My question is: 'knowing' academically, or 'knowing' as in to have a relationship with?

We are saved by having a relationship with Christ, not by academics. Too many people mix up those.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Well, he calls the Christ created. You deal with him.

He says the Christ is not God, too.

I am talking to him AND I am talking to you.

Now, do you acknowledge that since we aren't saved by passing a theology test, that @APAK is your brother in Christ?

 

[SovereignGrace]

A fair post.

My question is: 'knowing' academically, or 'knowing' as in to have a relationship with?

We are saved by having a relationship with Christ, not by academics. Too many people mix up those.

But we are to but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.[2 Peter 3:18]

 

[SovereignGrace]

I am talking to him AND I am talking to you.

Now, do you acknowledge that since we aren't saved by passing a theology test, that @APAK is your brother in Christ?

As long as He denies the eternality of the Christ, I can not state he is. As long as he denies the Christ is very God of very God, again, I can not state he is.

 

[Enoch111]

This little paragraph is self contradictory.

It is exactly what Scripture reveals. There is nothing self-contradictory about God becoming Man to take upon Himself the sins of the whole world. But only those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ are saved.

Please carefully note what this verse says about the Church (the redeemed ones): Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. (Acts 20:28)

Who is this "God" who has purchased the Church with His own blood? It is the Lord Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God. Since there is only one true and living God -- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit -- Jesus is indeed the Son of God, as well as fully God and fully sinless Man. The Bible makes this crystal clear.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

But we are to but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.[2 Peter 3:18]

That's *AFTER* a person accept Christ as their Lord and Savior.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

As long as He denies the eternality of the Christ, I can not state he is. As long as he denies the Christ is very God of very God, again, I can not state he is.

Then you have added that level of theology test as a prerequeiste to salvation.
I'm not hating on you or harassing or anything like that (I just wanted to state that to be clear). But I am trying to gain an accurate representation of what it is your beliefs are.

 

[SovereignGrace]

That's *AFTER* a person accept Christ as their Lord and Savior.

Exactly! We are to GROW in faith and KNOWLEDGE. When someone says they’re a believer for YEARS, DECADES, and still have a warped, twisted, mangled, grotesque view of the Triune Godhead, something’s amiss.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Then you have added that level of theology test as a prerequeiste to salvation.
I'm not hating on you or harassing or anything like that (I just wanted to state that to be clear). But I am trying to gain an accurate representation of what it is your beliefs are.

If someone denies the Triune Godhead after YEARS, DECADES of saying they’re believers, they’re unbelievers. Don’t know how to state it any more succinctly.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

No. But no one can genuinely believe on the Lord Jesus Christ without believing that He is God who became Man to die for our sins and be raised for our justification.

Because no man can die for another man's sins, only God Himself -- the Son of God, the Word of God -- could accomplish the work of redemption. And that is why this question was asked and answered properly:

And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. (Acts 8:36,27)

This little paragraph is self contradictory.

It is exactly what Scripture reveals. There is nothing self-contradictory about God becoming Man to take upon Himself the sins of the whole world. But only those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ are saved.

Please carefully note what this verse says about the Church (the redeemed ones): Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. (Acts 20:28)

Who is this "God" who has purchased the Church with His own blood? It is the Lord Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God. Since there is only one true and living God -- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit -- Jesus is indeed the Son of God, as well as fully God and fully sinless Man. The Bible makes this crystal clear.

Your choices are:
1)We are saved by passing an academic theology test, which includes ____.
2)We are not saved by passing an academic theology test.

It's that simple. You can't have it both ways.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Your choices are:
1)We are saved by passing an academic theology test, which includes ____.
2)We are not saved by passing an academic theology test.

It's that simple. You can't have it both ways.

We are saved by grace through faith, nothing more, nothing less.

However, after salvation, we are to grow in grace and knowledge.

 

[CoreIssue]

The have been a lot of false claims here as well as truth. So who's got it right?

Such as cult members making claims without specifying they are anchored in their cult beliefs, not the Bible. Regardless of how biblical they sound.

The greatest lies begin with a grain of truth.

A lot of food for thought on this thread.

False Salvation

 

[Enoch111]

Your choices are:
1)We are saved by passing an academic theology test, which includes ____.
2)We are not saved by passing an academic theology test.

It's that simple. You can't have it both ways.

That's nonsense. Faith in Christ as your Savior MUST include believing that He is God who became Man. Who else could die for your sins? Certainly not an angel, and there are no other so-called "gods" (who are in fact demons).

That is fundamental. There is only one true God, and Jesus Himself said that He is the "I AM" -- the one true God. But the Father is not the Son nor the Holy Spirit, and the Son is neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit. This is "the Mystery of God".

 

[Jane_Doe22]

If someone denies the Triune Godhead after YEARS, DECADES of saying they’re believers, they’re unbelievers. Don’t know how to state it any more succinctly.

Or saved people that are horribly educated.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

That's nonsense. Faith in Christ as your Savior MUST include believing that He is God who became Man. Who else could die for your sins? Certainly not an angel, and there are no other so-called "gods" (who are in fact demons).

That is fundamental. There is only one true God, and Jesus Himself said that He is the "I AM" -- the one true God. But the Father is not the Son nor the Holy Spirit, and the Son is neither the Father nor the Holy Spirit. This is "the Mystery of God".

And hence you believe that we are saved by passing a theology test that includes stating that Christ is God who became man.

I'm not hating on that position, merely stating what it is.