Luke 16 the rich man in hell lift up his eyes in torment

[Helen]

This is why for English speaking peoples, I recommend a 1611 KJV Bible, because Dr. James Strong assigned a number to each KJV word, and provided a Hebrew and Greek Lexicon so you could look up the definitions that are closer to the actual Bible manuscripts.

...

 

[CoreIssue]

I love happy endings . ♥︎
That was redemption in action.

I agree about the video.

But the point is in eternity only the damned will have maggots and will never lose them.

 

[marks]

Yes, then we have the worm that never dies...I have no idea what is meant by the worm.

Hi Nancy, I read something once, I think it was in a Targum, that it seemed to me the "worm" was what remained of a man after God destroyed him, that is, the part that lives on after God removes all good that came from Him, something kike that,

Much love!

 

[Helen]

I agree about the video.

But the point is in eternity only the damned will have maggots and will never lose them.

Oh I got your point...
But, we shall se my friend, we shall see...The Day will reveal all.

 

[complete]

we are all or should be familiar with Luke 16 . . is the literally or fiction /parable ?
i take it at face value /real .the reason i ask this i attended a rev meeting the evangelist as preaching out of REV chapter 20 .the great white throne judgement . he mentioned over his years. having people come up and say Hell is not real. i read my Bible it is real . just out of curiosity .what saith the posters ?

Hello @Ezra,

These are the words of the Lord Jesus Christ, spoken to the Pharisees. They believed that the dead could communicate with the living, and in a place called Abraham's Bosom. They also, in order to evade helping the poor, would promise them riches in heaven. This story is intended to show up their hypocrisy, and their denial of the testimony of the Scriptures.

* Our Lord used the word, 'Gehenna' (which is translated 'hell'), and it is the only word, so translated which refers to fire in terms of judgement. He is referring when doing so, to the fires of destruction, and end time judgement, and not to eternal conscious punishment.

* The word 'Hell' was chosen by the translators to translate the words, 'sheol', and 'hades' also, for it most closely translated the meaning required by those two words, and it's middle English meaning is, 'to hide away', and refers to the place of the dead, or the grave.

* The word hell has been so misused, and abused, as to made it's meaning gross and not reflective of the truth of God.

* The need for a location for the dead, either in heaven or in hell, is made necessary by another lie, the oldest lie recorded, which is that of Satan to Eve, 'Thou shalt not surely die'. Man does not have an immortal soul, and the soul that sinneth it shall surely die. As we have all sinned then we shall all die. Our bodies go back to the dust from whence it came, and the breath of life which energised it goes back to God Who gave it. Awaiting either judgement or resurrection life.

* There is no life apart from resurrection.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Ezra]

Not each case of the word "hell" in the KJV NT means the same place. In the NT Greek, sometimes it means Hades, the heavenly abode of the wicked like where the rich man of Luke 16 was carried to. And sometimes it is from the Hebrew 'Hinnom' which was a valley outside the walls of Jerusalem where garbage was burned with smoke rising perpetually. And then in 2 Peter 2:4, it is the Greek word tartaroo, which was the Greek term for the deepest area of the abyss.

i understand what your saying but i had no idea about the 1611 kjv bible i carry a thompson chain.. i have few other study bibles plus i use the net . i have only had one person that i can remember told me thy dont believe in hell .as a christian i find that a foolish statement

 

[Ezra]

This is why for English speaking peoples, I recommend a 1611 KJV Bible, because Dr. James Strong assigned a number to each KJV word, and provided a Hebrew and Greek Lexicon so you could look up the definitions that are closer to the actual Bible manuscripts.

Not each case of the word "hell" in the KJV NT means the same place. In the NT Greek, sometimes it means Hades, the heavenly abode of the wicked like where the rich man of Luke 16 was carried to. And sometimes it is from the Hebrew 'Hinnom' which was a valley outside the walls of Jerusalem where garbage was burned with smoke rising perpetually. And then in 2 Peter 2:4, it is the Greek word tartaroo, which was the Greek term for the deepest area of the abyss.

So you have to be careful, and look up the Greek to grasp which place is meant. The "lake of fire" is not the abode of haides, nor tartaroo. The "lake of fire" is a one-time event after God's future Great White Throne judgment. The abode of hell called haides goes into that future "lake of fire" and is destroyed, along with Satan and the wicked.

So was Christ's story of Lazarus and the rich man real? Maybe not the characters, but the places, most definitely real. When the believing malefactor crucified with our Lord Jesus asked our Lord to remember him when Jesus came into His Kingdom, Jesus told him that day he would be with Him in Paradise (Luke 23:43). And Apostle Paul said he knew a man once who was caught up to Paradise (most likely was Paul, as he was at one time stoned and left for dead. Likely a near-death experience.)

God's Word gives us plenty of teaching on what happens at flesh death, and where our spirit goes. Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 shows that our spirit (with soul, but doesn't say) is connected to our flesh body via a "silver cord". This would explain how a near death experience can happen with someone still surviving to tell about it. If that silver cord is not severed, then death doesn't happen. It also reveals the existence of two different dimensions of existence per God's Word. The other dimension where God and the angels live is just as real as this earthly dimension we live in. The difference is that God has set sensory bounds on us who live in this earthy one. Yet, as shown in His Word when He revealed Himself to His Old Testament prophets, or to His Apostles after His resurrection, those in the Heavenly dimension can exist and live in both dimensions.

And this will be the future revealing on this earth when Jesus returns, the limitations of this flesh world being cast off, with both... dimensions revealed right here on earth, both in the same time and space. We will live an angelic type existence upon this earth.

i like this..

 

[CoreIssue]

Oh I got your point...
But, we shall se my friend, we shall see...The Day will reveal all.

Actually, the Saints will not see the maggots.

 

[CoreIssue]

This is why for English speaking peoples, I recommend a 1611 KJV Bible, because Dr. James Strong assigned a number to each KJV word, and provided a Hebrew and Greek Lexicon so you could look up the definitions that are closer to the actual Bible manuscripts.

Not each case of the word "hell" in the KJV NT means the same place. In the NT Greek, sometimes it means Hades, the heavenly abode of the wicked like where the rich man of Luke 16 was carried to. And sometimes it is from the Hebrew 'Hinnom' which was a valley outside the walls of Jerusalem where garbage was burned with smoke rising perpetually. And then in 2 Peter 2:4, it is the Greek word tartaroo, which was the Greek term for the deepest area of the abyss.

So you have to be careful, and look up the Greek to grasp which place is meant. The "lake of fire" is not the abode of haides, nor tartaroo. The "lake of fire" is a one-time event after God's future Great White Throne judgment. The abode of hell called haides goes into that future "lake of fire" and is destroyed, along with Satan and the wicked.

So was Christ's story of Lazarus and the rich man real? Maybe not the characters, but the places, most definitely real. When the believing malefactor crucified with our Lord Jesus asked our Lord to remember him when Jesus came into His Kingdom, Jesus told him that day he would be with Him in Paradise (Luke 23:43). And Apostle Paul said he knew a man once who was caught up to Paradise (most likely was Paul, as he was at one time stoned and left for dead. Likely a near-death experience.)

God's Word gives us plenty of teaching on what happens at flesh death, and where our spirit goes. Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 shows that our spirit (with soul, but doesn't say) is connected to our flesh body via a "silver cord". This would explain how a near death experience can happen with someone still surviving to tell about it. If that silver cord is not severed, then death doesn't happen. It also reveals the existence of two different dimensions of existence per God's Word. The other dimension where God and the angels live is just as real as this earthly dimension we live in. The difference is that God has set sensory bounds on us who live in this earthy one. Yet, as shown in His Word when He revealed Himself to His Old Testament prophets, or to His Apostles after His resurrection, those in the Heavenly dimension can exist and live in both dimensions.

And this will be the future revealing on this earth when Jesus returns, the limitations of this flesh world being cast off, with both... dimensions revealed right here on earth, both in the same time and space. We will live an angelic type existence upon this earth.

You do not use the 1611 KJV.You use the 1769.

Regardless of what Bible you read, you can still use that lexicon. As well avoid the confusion of archaic English as I have seen is obvious in the number of things you posted.

 

[Nancy]

Hi Nancy, I read something once, I think it was in a Targum, that it seemed to me the "worm" was what remained of a man after God destroyed him, that is, the part that lives on after God removes all good that came from Him, something kike that,

Much love!

Thanks for the reply marks!
Well, since there is no good in man, inherently good, not sold on that idea, lol. Could it be symbolic of something else? Perhaps the unending suffering Jesus spoke of-being separated forever from God?
Hmm. :)

 

[CoreIssue]

Thanks for the reply marks!
Well, since there is no good in man, inherently good, not sold on that idea, lol. Could it be symbolic of something else? Perhaps the unending suffering Jesus spoke of-being separated forever from God?
Hmm. :)

Who says they would consider that suffering?

 

[Nancy]

Who says they would consider that suffering?

What, being separated from God?

 

[CoreIssue]

What, being separated from God?

Yes. Why would they consider that torment?

 

[Nancy]

Yes. Why would they consider that torment?

Because they will see evil for what it is - contrasted with the Light of The Living God. Of course, myself being a follower of Christ might make me a bit bias there, ha.

 

[tzcho2]

we are all or should be familiar with Luke 16 . . is the literally or fiction /parable ?
i take it at face value /real .the reason i ask this i attended a rev meeting the evangelist as preaching out of REV chapter 20 .the great white throne judgement . he mentioned over his years. having people come up and say Hell is not real. i read my Bible it is real . just out of curiosity .what saith the posters ?

I agree with you Ezra. When the bible says torment, it means torment. It is an important doctrine to change the meaning of. Like , I don't know where the idea that hell was just being separated from God? Isn't that the actual reason they find themselves in hell in the first place because they chose to be separate?

 

[tzcho2]

I didn't say it was...I SAID what was THEIR or your definition of "is it real"...
Real , as in WHAT ..TANGIBLE or otherwise ? , what does REAL MEAN ?? What do you mean when you say REAL????

real
[ ree-uh l, reel ]
adjective
1. true; not merely ostensible, nominal, or apparent:the real reason for an act.
2. existing or occurring as fact; actual rather than imaginary, ideal, or fictitious:a story taken from real life.
3. being an actual thing; having objective existence; not imaginary:The events you will see in the film are real and not just made up.

 

[CoreIssue]

Because they will see evil for what it is - contrasted with the Light of The Living God. Of course, myself being a follower of Christ might make me a bit bias there, ha.

Who says they care?

If they did they wouldn't be there.

 

[tzcho2]

HELL the Bible calls it the Lake of fire . it is real not fake.it is place of torment weeping gnashing of teeth and unquenchable fire

I really wish the thumbs up would say - "agree" rather then "like" .
Of course I don't like that hell is a place of torment , weeping and gnashing of teeth....but I accept the Bible as it states things are.
So, i agree with you Ezra. :)

 

[tzcho2]

Hell (Gehenna) as just as real, eternal, and tangible as Heaven. Had there been no Hell, there would have been no need for Christ, the crucifixion, the resurrection, and the Gospel.

However, your reference to Luke 16 -- which is a divine revelation of the afterlife -- is a reference to Sheol/Hades, not Gehenna (the Lake of Fire). People who hate the doctrine of Hell call this a parable, but that is simply not true.

One of the reasons there is much confusion about Hell is because the word "hell" has been used for three different places: (1) Gehenna (the actual Hell), (2) Sheol/Hades (the abode of departed souls and spirit in the lower parts of the earth), and (3) Tartarus [the subterranean prison of the evil angels which sinned before the Fall (by co-habiting with human women), and are now chained and awaiting their final judgment].

Before Christ spoke about Gehenna and Hades, the Old Testament spoke many times about Sheol. However, once again it was mistranslated as "the grave" and thus the cults adopted the false doctrine of Soul Sleep.

When Christ presented the narrative of the Rich Man and Lazarus, He was speaking about a real incident and its aftermath. Both died and their bodies were placed in their respective graves. But both went to Sheol/Hades, except to DIFFERENT COMPARTMENTS or regions in the heart of the earth. One region was reserved for the unrighteous dead, the other region -- called Abraham's Bosom -- was reserved for the righteous dead (the OT saints). There was a very wide gulf or chasm between these two regions, but the souls and spirits could communicate back and forth. The unrighteous dead were in torments of Hell, whereas the righteous were at peace. And there was no crossing over.

When Christ rose from the dead, He took all the OT saints from Sheol/Hades to Heaven to remain in the New Jerusalem and be perfected. However, the unrighteous dead still go to Hades (which for all practical purposes is Hell) until the Great White Throne Judgment. At a future time there will be a resurrection unto damnation, those souls and spirits will receive imperishable bodies, and then they will be judged according to their works. Since their names will be absent from the Lamb's Book of Life, they will be cast into the Lake of Fire, where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is never quenched.

Why would a loving God create a place of such intense torment? Jesus said that Hell (Gehenna) was created for the devil and his angels. And that is why it is imperative that the Gospel be preached to every person. And God now commands all men everywhere to (a) repent and (b) believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved. God wants no one in Hell, but when they reject Christ, they choose Hell. God does not elect or predestine some for Heaven and the majority for Hell. That is a damnable doctrine. But as Christ said, there are relatively few who enter the narrow gate (Christ) and choose the narrow way (surrender to God and Christ). Many prefer the wide gate (man-made religions) and the broad way (the ways of the world).

The cults and theological liberals deny and reject the doctrine of Hell, and today many evangelicals and fundamentalists avoid preaching on Hell and its reality. But Christ -- who is God -- is the one who created Hell, and also spoke about it in no uncertain terms, therefore we are to believe Him and not the liars who manufacture their own dogmas.

There is no second chance after death, there is no Purgatory, there is no transmigration of souls, there is no reincarnation. Those are all lies from the devil, who knows perfectly well that his eternal doom is sealed in the Lake of Fire (along with the Antichrist, the False Prophet, and all the evil angels) and would therefore love to drag all humanity to Hell.

Very important what you stated Enoch111 and exactly biblical. It is disturbing to me when people try to down play hell so then people think they will get a second chance after death, or that it will not be that bad. --But the Bible says it is eternal TORMENT.
I'd like to know if there is any who disagree with your post & why?

 

[CoreIssue]

I really wish the thumbs up would say - "agree" rather then "like" .
Of course I don't like that hell is a place of torment , weeping and gnashing of teeth....but I accept the Bible as it states things are.
So, i agree with you Ezra. :)

You mean like this?

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