Luke 16 the rich man in hell lift up his eyes in torment
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CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
Thanks farouk. So in chapters 15 and 16, Jesus presents a series of parables to teach. The one you mention is the last one.
I do not think parables are true life stories, but let's assume they are, for the sake of brevity.
If this parable were a true life story, when, in history past or the future to come, would the story be located? Are there any clues to this within the story?
I do find one clue that might be helpful, that would place it at least before the resurrection of the dead and the judgement. His brothers are still alive on earth. The time for them to have the chance to repent and turn to God is still there. So no one has yet gone to the second death, death has not been thrown into the lake of fire prepared for Satan. Correct?
I do not think parables are true life stories, but let's assume they are, for the sake of brevity.
If this parable were a true life story, when, in history past or the future to come, would the story be located? Are there any clues to this within the story?
I do find one clue that might be helpful, that would place it at least before the resurrection of the dead and the judgement. His brothers are still alive on earth. The time for them to have the chance to repent and turn to God is still there. So no one has yet gone to the second death, death has not been thrown into the lake of fire prepared for Satan. Correct?
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As an aside, something I just thought of that I don't want to disappear from my head, because that happens a lot to old people like me - when death is thrown into the lake of fire, does death live there in torment forever also? Death is a being, an actual being, like Satan or Neil Armstrong or Abraham Lincoln? And I'm not being facetious by that question. Maybe being a little goofy but not being mean. 
Edit to add more of my thought because there might not be a soul alive who could possibly glean why I asked that question .: if your answer is no, death is a state, not a conscious being, then why would it be thrown in the lake of fire, what would be the purpose and the result?
Edit to add more of my thought because there might not be a soul alive who could possibly glean why I asked that question .
: if your answer is no, death is a state, not a conscious being, then why would it be thrown in the lake of fire, what would be the purpose and the result?
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Harvest 1874
Well-Known Member
For those not yet wholly given over to the babble coming out of the professing church on this issue we refer you to our blog post entitled, “The Rich Man and Lazarus”
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
Harvest 1874
Well-Known Member
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
Harvest 1874
Well-Known Member
What biblical Christians are you referring to, your cult leaders Ankerberg and Hunt?
Remember it was you who first suggested on this forum that if someone followed the specific teachings of any particular individual they were in a cult, so what's your excuse?
Earburner
Well-Known Member
The problem with an "eternally burning hell of torment forever and ever" is found way back in Genesis. It's all due to a common misunderstanding by most of the "religious" denominations of Christianity.
1611 KJV- Gen. 2[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Now, if you focus on the word "soul", in the Hebrew, the word is "nephesh", which means "animal life".
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Now, let's go to Gen. 6:17; 7:21-22.
"All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died" .
Question: since animals do not have an eternal soul, why do many think or want to believe that we humans do have an eternal soul??
Did Moses understand the "Periodic Table of the Elements", or of what an atom was?
No! He did not. Therefore, he could not understand what Oxygen was, and had no other option but to call Oxygen the "breath of life".
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Man "became a living soul", he/she DIDN'T get one!!
Stay with the KJV or be messed up in everything that you believe.
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In the KJV, compare again Gen. 2:7 with Gen. 6:17; 7:21-22, and figure it out, that no human being has ever been given an eternal soul!
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
destroyed, annihilation, death are all the same thing. Only the blind would misinterpret this.
Foolishness tries to make out they are different. Trying to force God's word to say what it doesn't aligns itself with the enemy.
Speaking of Satan Ezekiel writes this.........so I made a fire come out from you and it consumed you, and I reduced you to ashes on the ground in the sight of all who were watching. All the nations who knew you are appalled at you; you have come to a horrible end and will be no more. Ezekiel 28:18-19
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Davy
Well-Known Member
That idea of no hell is taught by the mystery schools of initiation. They mostly teach that this world we live in is the only hell, which of course isn't true. For them to capture their member's minds, they have to first try to delete in them any fear of a higher Power or God that may be over them, for their goal is to trick their adepts into thinking they can become their own 'god' (actually Satan's original sin he rebelled against God with).
What is it with people not using scripture? At least farouk gave ONE scripture that makes him arrive at his conclusion. Some of you guys just pop in, say a bunch of stuff, and don't even remotely refer us to scripture. That's like...recommending yourself and your own opinions. You don't have to post a wall of scripture bigger than the wall President Trump wants to build, but at least let us follow your work.
Which scriptures make you arrive at your conclusions??
Its like taking a math test and not showing your work.
You don't have to quote chapter and verse even. I mean most of us will be able to guess what vss you intend if you even just refer to it in a loose paraphrase.
Which scriptures make you arrive at your conclusions??
Its like taking a math test and not showing your work.
You don't have to quote chapter and verse even. I mean most of us will be able to guess what vss you intend if you even just refer to it in a loose paraphrase.
While I don't agree with your attitude that a man must be completely blind, having never met God, if he thinks hell is eternal torture (having some error doesn't mean you should say that, because you don't know if he has or not based on his having imperfect knowledge) I do like that you gave a scripture that helped you to your conclusion. This helped me rather than just wasting my time as reward for reading your post. So thanks for that.
First of all, thank you for starting this thread. I'm very interested in it.
Second, thanks for referencing at least one scripture!
Concerning your last sentence, I don't think I totally agree...a delusion causes severe resistance, but...most delusions seem to me to be...mental laziness, as in you just accept something as true that isn't and it throws the equation off.
I see delusions arising as taking some things for granted that are in error...as in a foundation that you may think is secure but will shake apart when tested severely enough. Until then all seems well.
Sometimes people just don't have the concept or paradigm in their makeup to be able to apply correctly. But yes, for some it could be mental laziness...or spiritual lethargy. But delusion goes deeper than this I think.
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