70 weeks of Daniel

[CoreIssue]

Antiochus Epiphanes is history, as prophesied in Daniel. Maccabees is that historical account.
Shal you deny also Alex the Great of Daniel and his history?

So you are a Catholic.

 

[Keraz]

If you agree with that chart, then you should be able to answer my question about Dan. 9:27 from the KJV.
In Daniel 9:27, who is the "he" that is being talked about? Is it Christ, or is it the fictitious, one man band that you all love to call "THE" Antichrist?

[27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
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The truth is, you really don't know.

But I do know; 'he' is the Anti-Christ, the strong leader of the One World Govt, referred to in Daniel 7:23-26 and Revelation 17:8-14 He will fulfil Jesus' prophecy of Matthew 24:15

 

[Earburner]

So you are a Catholic.

If you are going to quote Daniel, then you might want to first learn that which was fulfilled already.
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Here is your first clue of who and what Daniel was written for:
Dan. 9[24] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
to finish the transgression, and
to make an end of sins, and
to make reconciliation for iniquity, and
to bring in everlasting righteousness, and
to seal up the vision and prophecy, and
to anoint the most Holy.
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Your 2nd clue is this:
John 5[39] Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

> Now back to my question to you about Dan. 9:27.
Who is the "he" that is being spoken of in that verse?
1. Is it Jesus?
2. Titus and his army of 70AD?
3. The fictitious miracle man, that most all of "church-ianity" has dreamed up?
Dan. 9[26] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah [singular] be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince [plural] that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
[27] And he [singular] shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Earburner]

But I do know; 'he' is the Anti-Christ, the strong leader of the One World Govt, referred to in Daniel 7:23-26 and Revelation 17:8-14 He will fulfil Jesus' prophecy of Matthew 24:15

Nope. Please try again, using the valuable information that I just recently posted on Dan. 9:27
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BTW, did you know that the context of 2 Thes. 3 is in the plural and NOT the singular. You should read that from the 1611-KJV, and study it with the Textus Receptus Greek, which is what the KJV was translated from.
Also I might add, all the newer bible translations of today (JWs included) are translated from the Wescott & Hort Greek.
As there is much being said today about "fake news", that is not all that is "fake".

 

[Earburner]

Correction: 2 Thes. 2

 

[Dave L]

Don't blame Scripture for your lack of understanding. False prophecy claims that we are already in the Millennium (in spite of evidence to the contrary). And that is your belief.

"Amillennialism is the name given to the belief that there will not be a literal 1000-year reign of Christ. The people who hold to this belief are called amillennialists... they believe that Christ is now sitting on the throne of David and that this present church age is the kingdom over which Christ reigns."

If this is the kingdom over which Christ reigns (with evil rampant all over the world) then God save us all from this foolish idea.

Jesus is Amillennial. You cannot disprove this using the gospels or epistles. The 1000 years of Revelation 20 are not the kingdom. Satan attacks the kingdom when they end. If you embrace Jesus' description of the kingdom, a temporal physical kingdom in this world is impossible.

 

[Dave L]

Walvoord's scholars debunk ANY ancient fulfillment for Daniel's 9th Chapter. So all the tripe that's posted is from people who are either deliberately ignorant, or intentional liars.

They'd rather give you their BEST LIE than admit that they don't know something.



Bobby Jo

Scripture debunks Walvoord and his scholars.

 

[Dave L]

This post should be titled the 7,000,000,000 weeks of Daniel and counting, since it remains open ended until infinity. Scripture does not mention a gap between the 69th and 70th week. Dispensationalism is nothing more than shade tree prophecy mechanics trying to fix things to their liking.

 

[Harvest 1874]

It is quite evident that you have not read or studied 1&2 Maccabees in conjunction with Daniel. All of which has to do with the AoD by Antiochus Epiphanes, and the restoration of the temple by Judas Maccabeus.
BtW, do you know of anyone who "restored" a temple in the year 33AD?
Stop reading Revelation through Daniel.

Sorry but I don’t waste my time on those writings which were not included in the Holy writ, the LORD specifically called for those books which we have today to be a part of His divine revelation and no others. The very testament of this fact is evidenced by the preponderance of the various translations which have been published over the centuries and the lack of the inclusion of the Apocryphal books, which includes the books of Maccabees.

The Lord is quite able to overrule events so that these books would have been included thus the very fact that they are not is testament that He did not want them included, that the divine revelation is complete (perfect) through the holy cannon as we have received it.

 

[Harvest 1874]

But I do know; 'he' is the Anti-Christ, the strong leader of the One World Govt, referred to in Daniel 7:23-26 and Revelation 17:8-14 He will fulfil Jesus' prophecy of Matthew 24:15

And so it is even as the Lord stated, “And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be condemned who believed not the truth (on this issue, as well as on others), but had pleasure in unrighteousness (in errors)” 2 Thess 2:11, 12

As, in the beginning of our Lord's ministry at his first advent, Satan's efforts were concentrated upon the one object of causing the Lord Jesus to stumble, thereby to nip the divine plan in the bud, and during the Gospel age the consecrated members of the body of Christ have been specially opposed and beset by him, so now his efforts are concentrated specially upon the last members of that body, "the feet of him," who are running the race for the prize of the high calling.

It is for this cause that so many new and plausible forms of error have been (and will be) brought forward within this harvest period. Satan is using every effort to thwart God's plan and to stumble the feet. And God even more than permits this: he encourages it by sending (i.e. permitting) these strong delusions of Satan among his professed followers--at the same time assuring all who at heart are faithful to his Word (the truth) and to their covenant of self-sacrifice that they need fear no evil, for he will be with them and uphold them though a thousand fall at their side (Fall prey to Satan’s delusions, and to the various forms of plausible errors he initiates, such as the false idea of a seven year tribulation and an actual physical antichrist sitting in an actual rebuilt temple, this despite the testimony of the scriptures to the contrary, but alas as it is written, these have been turned over to the delusion of their own choosing.)

 

[Earburner]

Sorry but I don’t waste my time on those writings which were not included in the Holy writ, the LORD specifically called for those books which we have today to be a part of His divine revelation and no others. The very testament of this fact is evidenced by the preponderance of the various translations which have been published over the centuries and the lack of the inclusion of the Apocryphal books, which includes the books of Maccabees.

The Lord is quite able to overrule events so that these books would have been included thus the very fact that they are not is testament that He did not want them included, that the divine revelation is complete (perfect) through the holy cannon as we have received it.

Sorry that you don't respect history, when you are studying the Lord's prophetic words.
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In Daniel, what shall you ever fabricate of the 1st, 2nd and the 4th beast, if you can't comprehend the history of the 3rd beast?

 

[Earburner]

Furthermore, Jesus spoke of the AoD in Daniel, and YOU DON'T want to learn of it???

Dan. 11[31] And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
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Dan. 7[11] And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
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1 Maccabees 1[54] Now the fifteenth day of the month Casleu, in the hundred forty and fifth year, they set up the abomination of desolation upon the altar, and builded idol altars throughout the cities of Juda on every side;
>The temple was profaned and destroyed by Antiochus Epiphanes, but Judas Maccabeus restored it within the time frame, as prophesied in Daniel.
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Do you not know that Jesus used that PAST event of the AoD as "type and anti-type" in speaking of Himself, as the one who was going to restore His destroyed body (temple) by His Resurrection?
John 2[19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.[20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
[21] But he spake of the temple of his body.
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BTW, That event of the AoD and the temple restoration, has been on the Jewish calendar as a commemoration called "Hanukkah".

You have much to unlearn, and much to re-learn!

 

[Bobby Jo]

Sorry but I don’t waste my time on those writings which were not included in the Holy writ, ...

I have no idea what you're talking about, except that it appears to be a response to my challenge regarding:

If what you assert were true, then you could find a PRECEDENT for using two numbers which have to be summed, instead of simply stating the net result. Seven and Sixty-Two? NO, -- SIXTY-NINE.​

If I'm not the target of your response, then please respond as we're required to be "instant in season and out of season". Otherwise I'll presume you've joined so many other people who post under the premise of being "christians" (small "c") who make unfounded assertions and then run and hide when challenged to ~put up or shut up~.



Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

But I do know; 'he' is the Anti-Christ, the strong leader of the One World Govt, referred to in Daniel 7:23-26 ...

Really? The a/c is the "anointed one" who is "coming" at the "seven weeks", and also the "anointed one" who is "cut off" after the sixty-nine weeks?

Buddy, you certainly have some strange "CME" expectations, but your Daniel 9 theology appears to be a COMPLETE LIE.


Please clarify,
Bobby Jo

 

[Jay Ross]

Scripture does not mention a gap between the 69th and 70th week. Dispensationalism is nothing more than shade tree prophecy mechanics trying to fix things to their liking.

What is the time span of Dan.7:26b? 2,000-3,000 years maybe? Then the Dan.7:27 prophecy will kick in.

 

[Harvest 1874]

I have no idea what you're talking about:

Bobby Jo

That's because I was not responding to you I was responding to Earburner's post.

 

[Bobby Jo]

That's because I was not responding to you I was responding to Earburner's post.

Thanks for the note, -- I "ignore" several posters and was actually just now looking for my previous communication with you because I realized that your viewable post was incomplete due to the less than well considered individual who is "ignored"!

So my bad, but I'm glad your follow-up allows me to explain what happened. :)



But, I am still waiting for SOMEONE (ANYONE) to stand up and defend ANY precedent in Scripture or World History where ANY society sums two non-incremental numbers typical of "seven and sixty two", when the proper conveyance would simply be SIXTY-NINE.


The price of a doughnut, a cup of coffee, and can of beans, the value of a vehicle, pick one, -- but NOBODY cites a pair of shoes as $12 plus $73. They're $85.

Of course there are incremental values cited as: four score and ten; a mile and a quarter; a dozen and a half; time, times, half a time; etc. But seriously, $12 plus $73? Not unless I'm missing something. -- So in Daniel Chapter 9 the "translators" contrived a false rendering of the Seven until the coming of an anointed one, and then a subsequent Sixty-Two until an anointed one was cut off to achieve a FALSE AGENDA:

KJV
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off

RSV
Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. 26 And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off, ... ​

-- Please note the KJV "commentary" capitalization of the word "messiah" versus the correct RSV non-capitalize "anointed one".​

And per Newton:

Sir Isaac Newton’s DANIEL AND THE APOCALYPSE
by Sir William Whitla, London, 1922, Chapt. X, p. 281
Daniel and the Apocalypse

We avoid also the doing violence to the language of Daniel, by taking the seven weeks and sixty two weeks for one number. Had that been Daniel’s meaning, he would have said sixty and nine weeks, and not seven weeks and sixty two weeks, a way of numbering used by no nation.​

I await your response,
Bobby Jo

 

[Keraz]

Really? The a/c is the "anointed one" who is "coming" at the "seven weeks", and also the "anointed one" who is "cut off" after the sixty-nine weeks?

Buddy, you certainly have some strange "CME" expectations, but your Daniel 9 theology appears to be a COMPLETE LIE.
Please clarify,
Bobby Jo

Firstly; normal discussion requires respect and your style of accusation is unacceptable.

The 'anointed prince' is in Daniel 9:25 and in verse 26; He is removed.
Then; in verse 26 it refers to an invading prince, who is logically Titus, who conquered the Jews and destroyed the Temple.
Continuing on in verse 27, it tells of another prince, to come later, another world leader, who will make a treaty with the holy people for the final 'week' of the seventy. Jesus refers to it, Matthew 24:15, but He combines two events into one prophecy, because we know the Christian Jews fled Titus, but Titus never caused an abomination in the Temple, this will happen in the future as Paul makes clear. 2 Thessalonians 2:4

You call my warnings about the forthcoming Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, by fire from the sun; strange.
What is strange, is how Bible reading people like yourself, fail to see the 100+ prophesies that vividly describe this forthcoming worldwide disaster. But it is explained by the scriptures that tell how the Lord will blind those who choose false teachings and true understanding is hidden from them. Isaiah 29:9-12, Isaiah 42:18-20, Daniel 12:4-9, Matthew 11:25

 

[Bobby Jo]

Firstly; normal discussion requires respect and your style of accusation is unacceptable.

The 'anointed prince' is in Daniel 9:25 and in verse 26; He is removed.
Then; in verse 26 it refers to an invading prince, who is logically Titus, who conquered the Jews and destroyed the Temple.
Continuing on in verse 27, it tells of another prince, to come later, another world leader, who will make a treaty with the holy people for the final 'week' of the seventy. Jesus refers to it, Matthew 24:15, but He combines two events into one prophecy, because we know the Christian Jews fled Titus, but Titus never caused an abomination in the Temple, this will happen in the future as Paul makes clear. 2 Thessalonians 2:4

You call my warnings about the forthcoming Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, by fire from the sun; strange.
What is strange, is how Bible reading people like yourself, fail to see the 100+ prophesies that vividly describe this forthcoming worldwide disaster. But it is explained by the scriptures that tell how the Lord will blind those who choose false teachings and true understanding is hidden from them. Isaiah 29:9-12, Isaiah 42:18-20, Daniel 12:4-9, Matthew 11:25

Keraz, I'd be MORE than happy to walk a discussion through this 9th Chapter of Daniel to see EXACTLY what both the Scriptures and History have to say, but your assumptions are so far removed from the TRUTH, I can't imagine you have the flexibility to have that discussion.

Perhaps I should simply point out that 12:4 & 9 DEMAND MODERN fulfillments, -- not ancient. But you've obviously been influenced by the LYING commentators.

And if it might help to point out one other aspect: YOUR BIBLE IS WRONG. Most Bibles "translate" (read: have a FALSE agenda) the seven and sixty-two as though it were one number, but the RSV (and several others) CORRECTLY segregate the SEVEN as one increment of time, and the SIXTY-TWO as another increment of time:

RSV
Dan. 9:25 Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. 26 And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off​

As such, there are TWO "anointed ones"; and after the seventieth week has passed (i.e., several years) the destroyer "shall come".

Dan. 9:27 ... and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”​

If you want to walk through, let me know,
Bobby Jo

 

[Dave L]

What is the time span of Dan.7:26b? 2,000-3,000 years maybe? Then the Dan.7:27 prophecy will kick in.

Already happened. Pssst...... Jesus is not the Antichrist as you make him out to be.