The cycle of abuse

[stunnedbygrace]

Should a Christian really be calling another Christian a numbskull or other derogatory names?

Really pearl? Really?
You didn't see the emoticon?
You haven't followed the conversation?

Read the 15 pages pearl, and then give your honest opinion on whether I was trying to speak derogatorily to this man.

 

[Pearl]

Really pearl? Really?
You didn't see the emoticon?
You haven't followed the conversation?

Read the 15 pages pearl, and then give your honest opinion on whether I was trying to speak derogatorily to this man.

This is the passage I'm thinking of: "But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ [a term of contempt] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell." Matthew 5:22

 

[stunnedbygrace]

This is the passage I'm thinking of: "But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ [a term of contempt] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell." Matthew 5:22

Pearl, Are you going to make new law for the outward behavior of men with Jesus' words? Read the 15 pages and try to see if in my heart I was being contemptuous with this man.

 

[Pearl]

Pearl, Are you going to make new law for the outward behavior of men with Jesus' words? Read the 15 pages and try to see if in my heart I was being contemptuous with this man.

Me thinks you do protest a little too much.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Men in here have spoken before of another man who helped them to the Lord and guided and mentored them, and said: he's my spiritual father. Would you jump on them for saying it even though Jesus said call no man father? Of course you wouldn't. In their heart they are doing nothing wrong.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Me thinks you do protest a little too much.

Me thinks you judge men wrongly, from the outside.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And me thinks you have a problem with the letter of the law vs. The spirit of the law.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And furthermore, me also thinks its important to tell you I'm not mad at you.

 

[farouk]

Me thinks you do protest a little too much.

Quotation from Shakespeare, right?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

This is the passage I'm thinking of: "But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ [a term of contempt] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell." Matthew 5:22

I have to say, I've been meditating on the verse. I'm happy that I've found a verse, (pearl found it really), that can be paired with Jesus teaching on what murder truly is, which is anger in your heart at someone.

God always looks at the heart and the intents of a man's heart.

This can be seen in the OT, where he made them set up sanctuary places men could go and be safe from retaliation if they accidentally killed someone without intent in their heart and without anger, but just an accident like...your axehead flies off while chopping and hits another man in the head and kills him, etc.

 

[amadeus]

I'm breaking in to ask one of the only 2 men in here I would even think of asking such a serious question. And yes, I have to interrupt everyone to do so.

Amadeus, did God create evil just as He created everything else?

You know that without regard to what I say as to where I received my answer someone is likely to disagree... but let us venture a bit...

Presuming that evil is a thing rather than the absence of anything let us consider it. Could we simply quote a verse of scripture and that would be the end of the question?

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." Isaiah 45:7

But many will find an alternate translation or version or meaning or understanding and set the apparent literal meaning in the cited translation [KJV] aside or otherwise go around it in favor of what they already believe if their current belief differs.

What did God create or make or prepare? Whatever God's answer is to these and other important [Are they important to God?] questions, what man does need is a vision, a vision [of God's whole plan (including creation?)]:

"Where there is no vision, the people perish... " Prov 29:18

How good and sharp is our vision? Consider what Apostle Paul wrote:

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

Including himself in that statement, Paul was saying that he/we were not yet at the "face to face" that Moses had missed here:

"And he said, I beseech thee, show me thy glory." Ex 33:18

"And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live." Ex 33:20

"And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen. Ex 33:21-23

Would His face ever be seen by man? Did God speak of this to anyone else? How about David?

"Hear, O LORD, when I cry with my voice: have mercy also upon me, and answer me.
When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek." Psalm 27:7-8

I would say that when a person can see His face clearly then that person would have also that perfect vision of God and God's plan or at least his own part in that Plan.

But the question was about God creating evil... especially perhaps if a person cannot accept or understand a simple superficial meaning of Isaiah 45:7 as cited above? How can we see it? How can we understand it? Was not evil, whatever it is, a part of God's plan? How blurred or dim or dark is our vision of His Face? Probably, God has provided an outline of all the answers in Genesis chapter 1 but again who can see it or understand clearly? Is evil included in Gen 1:1?

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." Gen 1:1

Jesus was and is the Way to better vision. Can we through Him see better than Moses or better than Paul did at the time of the verses written? Have either of them or David seen His face now and if so do they still Live?

Consider this:

"And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him.
And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly." Mark 8:22-25

To me this apparently natural healing also speaks of the betterment of the vision of God... the Way to seeing the very Face of God. Will everyone tread this pathway? If not, why not?

I guess I have written all of this to show how complex the thing can be or even impossible... but not for God!

Can God remove Himself from a thing? When and if He does or if a man causes God to be removed, is that not the result darkness? Is not the result evil? So the question again, did God create evil?

"And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness." Gen 1:4

Perhaps all of this is my answer, but if it is correct, who is able to see it? Who is able to understand it? If it is wrong who has God given a better one?

Give God the glory!

 

[Pearl]

Quotation from Shakespeare, right?

Perhaps.

 

[amadeus]

Faith comes from hearing the word. And if we learn to recognize faith, it goes a long way in confirming our beliefs. The big problem is in telling the difference between intellectual ascent and Holy Spirit faith. We need to really focus on this since so much depends on it.

I will say that the final answer on this will not come through the use of the scientific method nor through the use of logic as man defines them. Your statement is simple and using my own accepted definitions or understanding from God I could agree with you. In actuality we disagree because our definitions differ. The question then is where does God stand on the issues? You might say one thing and I another speaking supposedly for God. So we may butt heads. Who would be increased by this? Who would be edified?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Its very good Amadeus. Very good.

I've seen that God does not/did not create darkness in the same manner He created all else. He is light and there is no darkness in Him at all.

He can be said to create darkness, but it is a negative creation. It never says , and then God said, let there be darkness. For the purposes of our story darkness was just here.

I believe there is no darkness unless God turns from someone or casts someone from His presence. That's a negative creation.

So I understand how He says I create darkness.

Thank you for the effort of that post, Amadeus. It was very helpful. im pretty much where you are in my understanding of it.

Now if I could understand how it bizarrely seems that Satan somehow has eternity in him, yet apart from God...

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Isaiah 45:7 has gripped me so much I'm going to do a word study. Form, create, make, create. That's the words paired with light, darkness, peace, evil.

The desire to do a word study has only gripped me one other time - it was on the first part of Genesis. It was well worth the work. Ill post it if I find anything wonderful!

 

[JellyJam]

I am speaking like that because a man quoting a bible verse is NOT the definition of abuse. And especially not on a Christian website, you numbskull!

You act as though a man talking about God or citing a verse is pounding nails into your feet and hands or something!

Such drama!

Since I'm back lets talk about that.

In my opinion I really think Jesus was worse than a child abuser, much much worse.

 

[Willie T]

Should a Christian really be calling another Christian a numbskull or other derogatory names?

Kind of depends upon whether or not he has pretty well already proven that he is one.

 

[Pearl]

Kind of depends upon whether or not he has pretty well already proven that he is one.

We are meant to love one another and in my book that means we need to be kind and all the other list of attributes of love in 1 Corinthians chapter 13.

"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonour others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres."

 

[Helen]

Its very good Amadeus. Very good.

I've seen that God does not/did not create darkness in the same manner He created all else. He is light and there is no darkness in Him at all.

He can be said to create darkness, but it is a negative creation. It never says , and then God said, let there be darkness. For the purposes of our story darkness was just here.

I believe there is no darkness unless God turns from someone or casts someone from His presence. That's a negative creation.

So I understand how He says I create darkness.

Thank you for the effort of that post, Amadeus. It was very helpful. im pretty much where you are in my understanding of it.

Now if I could understand how it bizarrely seems that Satan somehow has eternity in him, yet apart from God...

Haha! You and me both!
So much that I still not quite understand.

My take on God creating evil is 'God sets the stage'...man chose how the play would go...and evil is the result.

Man, without God is darkness.

I say this because if God created evil , and brought all the evil we see into the world. He is totally responsible for every murder , Hitler , pain, sorrow etc...
What kind of Father is that???
Therefore IF He caused evil then no one is found guilty , if no one is guilty , why did Jesus have to die in our place, we were not responsible in the first place for our actions.

It's like tying two foxes tails together and lighting them on fire..and sitting back to see what happens.

@amadeus @Dave L Can you untangle this??

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Since I'm back lets talk about that.

In my opinion I really think Jesus was worse than a child abuser, much much worse.

I can't believe I'm going to give you an audience with that remark, but go ahead. Why do you think that? Is it because you blame Him for what happened to your daughter?