Divorce and Remarriage

[Soverign Grace]

I'm going to try it a different way. Sometimes it takes just the right words for me to say, oh, I get what you're saying now, so I'm assuming we all are pretty much like that.

You think - you have equated - being in the Spirit - to a thing you feel. Incidentally, from what other men say, that's kind of different for the person. For me, it was this actual physical feeling, like waves washing over and through me and I would get goosebumps too. Wonderful feeling, almost as if God was...hugging me.

That feeling (or however you describe it for you) IS your reaction to the Holy Spirit. But, it also is...a pleasure to our senses, and is a more carnal way of communion. So He wants us to go on and not stay there, but we would never choose that, we would always choose what is a pleasure to our senses. So, He begins to wean us. His goal is a more naked communion, with our senses and desires put under, a purer communion.

And how do you wean a baby? By removing what it desires so it will move on to different desires, better things. No one would approve if they saw an 8 year old nursing, would they?

So, I know it will help you to know that it is God Himself who is doing this and hiding, as it were, from you. He used to pick you up and caress you all the time. Now, He sets you down sometimes, to get you to walk on your own feet. ( How amazing, incidentally, that all things He has made show Himself, even the mother and child relationship!)

So once you know a thing is God working and Gods will, it becomes easier to accept and submit to it. When we are thinking somethings wrong and something we have done is causing it, there's distress and no calm submission and trust.

He will sometimes come back to your senses again, and yes, as you say, its so fleeting, there and gone. He wants to reassure you He's still there and keep you calm, so He allows you to sense Him briefly again, a sort of reminder that you are loved and that He hasn't abandoned you.

I counseled you to read about Israel in the desert because their journey there reflects our spiritual journey with God.

It says He let them become very thirsty in the desert to....SEE WHAT THEY WOULD DO. What was He looking for? What was He hoping they would do? He was looking for trust, no matter what it seemed or felt like to their senses. This was a test of trust (faith). They failed it. It was their lack of trust that displeased Him.

But you will not fail your test. You will begin to trust in this, even if you don't like how it feels to your senses.

I know what you mean. And for me the feeling was a deep sense of holiness, of goodness, a sense of being in touch with the Ancient of Days. It was fleeting though and I do long for it. I grasp what you're saying: it may not be that I've done anything amiss or haven't achieved what I'm trying to spiritually - that the dry times are from His hand for a reason; that there is something for me to learn in it. My pastor said that to me one time: that's when your FAITH takes over. Maybe I'm seeking experience rather than exercising faith that this too is from His Hand.

 

[Soverign Grace]

You know the answer, we are to suffer wrong for His sake. Same as he did for us

You think we should pay the bill? You don't think the neighbor has any culpability?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Where's the balance?

Always towards grace and mercy and love, Dave. Always.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

It is not bearing fruit for her to pay money she doesn't have. It is bearing fruit for her to learn to accept our help and to have a change of heart about the matter.

Do agree with you on the money. It would take too much detail to share but we went through some devastating injustices that are still ongoing and have been for years. It may be the only time in my life so far that I saw fruit of the Spirit. The only time it was against my will but more for His. It was painful humiliating and life altering but I’d go through it again and in fact pray for more opportunities. As crazy as it is. In the submission to this wrong or injustice as he did, one can rise above the injustice and evil and take away its power all together to where the injustice has to shut its mouth before God who is the true judge of right and wrong.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I know what you mean. And for me the feeling was a deep sense of holiness, of goodness, a sense of being in touch with the Ancient of Days. It was fleeting though and I do long for it. I grasp what you're saying: it may not be that I've done anything amiss or haven't achieved what I'm trying to spiritually - that the dry times are from His hand for a reason; that there is something for me to learn in it. My pastor said that to me one time: that's when your FAITH takes over. Maybe I'm seeking experience rather than exercising faith that this too is from His Hand.

A man makes his plans but it is God who guides his steps.

 

[Dave L]

Always towards grace and mercy and love, Dave. Always.

It's a delicate balance. What fellowship has light with darkness?

 

[Waiting on him]

What does John say about friendship with the world?

Not sure what John said, but James said it’s emnity with God. Myself I’m not fond of this world at all. Scripture says the beginning of knowledge is to hate evil. The more God reveals the truth about this dung heap the more I hate it

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You think we should pay the bill? You don't think the neighbor has any culpability?

It isn't about your neighbors culpability. God doesnt ask your unbelieving neighbor to give his shirt and then his coat as well, to you. He asks YOU to do this.

 

[Waiting on him]

You think we should pay the bill? You don't think the neighbor has any culpability?

All I know to say is Christ paid my bill.

 

[Soverign Grace]

So, please tell us how much the vet bill is. The woman is asking for your coat as well. We will give it to her. Or...don't even tell us how much the vet bill is , just pm us your address if we ask for it. Put me on the list. I want your name and address. I have some I can send and it will not harm me in any way to do so.

No - I am not going to accept any money. We are not broke - I just have high medical bills and we live very frugally but the neighbors know of my situation. The neighbors are much better off financially than we are and that's why I'm shocked and hurt that they expect us to pay their bill. We already incurred expense by driving cross country using up tank after tank of gas and paying for tolls because they demanded the dog be removed from the neighborhood. In fact, they have a shepherd that my husband said is worse than the dog our relatives brought here. We appeased them and took the dog to its owner but I feel that no matter what we do it isn't enough. Now they're demanding that we pay the vet bill when their cat was in OUR yard. I know them - they would not pay someone else's bill. In fact I overlooked a lot. The neighbor walks his dog to the end of the driveway and guides it to do its business in our yard. A family member was shocked to see it and told me to go demand he get the dog off of our yard but to get along I did not say a word. We put up with that for years. When they have trash bags and rake their yard they put it in front of our house. I just overlook it but now they're pushing me too much. They're acting like we had this dangerous dog and told me they could have had it euthanized but they did us a favor and let us remove it from the neighborhood. It just got my Irish up.

Good Lord.

I just wondered what the right thing to do is Scripturally.

 

[Waiting on him]

You think we should pay the bill? You don't think the neighbor has any culpability?

Take some time and read Philemon, it’s a short read. A ton of insight too forgiveness and paying the bill

 

[stunnedbygrace]

All I know to say is Christ paid my bill.

He gave His shirt. Then they flogged Him. Then He gave His coat and they drew lots for it. He did all that, and He asks us to do so as well.

It was never about the culpability of the men who did these things to Him. He didn't demand that they pay for their culpability, but He freely gave up His rights and poured Himself out for them. He didn't see it as robbery. He just loved so perfectly that He could not stop loving to stop and demand what was right or fair.

 

[Soverign Grace]

What does John say about friendship with the world?

That's a good point Dave.

 

[Waiting on him]

To love those who despite fully use and persecute you is a high command

 

[stunnedbygrace]

No - I am not going to accept any money. We are not broke - I just have high medical bills and we live very frugally but the neighbors know of my situation. The neighbors are much better off financially than we are and that's why I'm shocked and hurt that they expect us to pay their bill. We already incurred expense by driving cross country using up tank after tank of gas and paying for tolls because they demanded the dog be removed from the neighborhood. In fact, they have a shepherd that my husband said is worse than the dog our relatives brought here. We appeased them and took the dog to its owner but I feel that no matter what we do it isn't enough. Now they're demanding that we pay the vet bill when their cat was in OUR yard. I know them - they would not pay someone else's bill. In fact I overlooked a lot. The neighbor walks his dog to the end of the driveway and guides it to do its business in our yard. A family member was shocked to see it and told me to go demand he get the dog off of our yard but to get along I did not say a word. We put up with that for years. When they have trash bags and rake their yard they put it in front of our house. I just overlook it but now they're pushing me too much. They're acting like we had this dangerous dog and told me they could have had it euthanized but they did us a favor and let us remove it from the neighborhood. It just got my Irish up.

Good Lord.

I just wondered what the right thing to do is Scripturally.

How much abuse did our Lord overlook?

You are looking for your neighbors to do what God is asking YOU to do.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

To love those who despite fully use and persecute you is a high command

Yes, and it is one we can't meet. We must pray for what we lack, because it is impossible for us.

 

[Soverign Grace]

Take some time and read Philemon, it’s a short read. A ton of insight too forgiveness and paying the bill

I will read Philemon. At this point I don't feel that we owe them and it's the attitude that I don't like. A neighbor had told me that they went around pointing the finger at everyone else's kid when there was vandalism and it was their son who did it. My relative said if the dog was in any other place she would pay for it, but we are 100% in the right because we were in our yard. The relative said they chose to let their cat roam. My husband asked them if they don't feel responsible for at least half the bill and she said No. My husband said "Your cat was in our yard." She shrugged it off and said: "You can't keep cats in your own yard." So now WE are supposed to pay because THEY can't "keep their cat in their yard?" I don't know - it doesn't sit well with me. Especially since we've put up with years of them sending their dog onto our lawn to do its business. We aren't young people that we need to pick up their dog's loads.

I have to pray because none of it sits well with me. I'm wondering at what point you stop turning the other cheek. I read Dear Abby one time: a woman wrote in who was getting beat up by her husband and she was confused because her well-known pastor advised her to submit and stay with him. Dear Abby said "You don't turn the other cheek if the first one is black and blue."

I know Dear Abby is not in the bible but there is some good old Yankee horse sense there.

 

[Soverign Grace]

He gave His shirt. Then they flogged Him. Then He gave His coat and they drew lots for it. He did all that, and He asks us to do so as well.

It was never about the culpability of the men who did these things to Him. He didn't demand that they pay for their culpability, but He freely gave up His rights and poured Himself out for them. He didn't see it as robbery. He just loved so perfectly that He could not stop loving to stop and demand what was right or fair.

I don't know if that equates to this situation. I'm wondering if giving in to them is going to empower them even more because they see themselves as these righteous people who were wronged that WE now have to pay from our back for our grievous mistakes. I just wonder if they need a healthy dose of truth - that they let their cat loose and it was in our yard and we aren't responsible for them letting their cat roam the neighborhood. Some people if you give in to them they get worse. It may feed their pride. They acted so sanctimonious and said that "we were going to ruin neighborly relations if we didn't pay the bill." I see that as manipulative and I do not like to be manipulated.

 

[Soverign Grace]

How much abuse did our Lord overlook?

You are looking for your neighbors to do what God is asking YOU to do.

Because he's a lawyer, the wife began to pull legal jargon on us which I do not appreciate. It was a manipulation tactic. Remember too that Christ turned over the tables of the moneychangers.

I don't like the way they are absolving themselves of all culpability. When my husband asked if they thought they were partly culpable she said "No. You can't keep a cat in the yard." That's nonsense. So because they don't keep THEIR cat in THEIR yard, we're supposed to pay for THEIR mistake? I don't know if that is glorifying God. I think it's feeding their blown up egos. They may just need a healthy dose of the TRUTH. Why are WE responsible for THEM letting THEIR cat run in OUR yard. We did NOTHING wrong! We were in OUR yard walking the dog.

I put up with years of them letting their dog do its business in our yard. I turned the other cheek. When their son bugged us for money I turned the other cheek. When he was chased by police and they were swarming our yard I turned the other cheek. So now they're demanding that WE pay for walking a dog in OUR yard, and her big explanation is "you can't keep a cat in your yard." That's baloney. I don't think God means for us to be suckers either.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Maybe you're right.

Do you know there is excruciatingly heavy warfare going on around you right now? I have to go open the shop but will be back very shortly.