Did God Forsake Jesus?

[GerhardEbersoehn]

How so? If Jesus is not God, He could not possibly be the Lamb of God to take away the sin of the world. While He was born a sinless Man, He is fully God, as we see here (Isa 9:6):

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Thus we read in Acts 20:28: Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

There is only one who shed His blood and is also God. Jesus.

Amen, brother. God be with you your Saviour

 

[bbyrd009]

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

If only that was in Hebrew, huh? The scribes got ya bro, sry
Isaiah 9:6 Lexicon: For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

(click for the original, even the Lex is infected with the bad English tranny)

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Ah...that sounds so sweet. "God did not forsake Jesus...sometimes we do...but not God". Too bad it is such a lie. That is what the serpent said also. (Gen. 3:4) "And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:" Surely the Father would not allow Jesus to die, just because He was the substitute for us? Well, if Jesus did not die, then our sins are not paid for.

Do you think that only physical death is the payment for sin? Death involves body, soul, and spirit. Death is separation. Spiritual death is separation of the spirit from God. That spiritual death must be endured else the payment is no good. With Christ who was the Son, that spiritual death meant the separation of the Father from the God/Man, Jesus Christ, Who now became sin for us. This is what Jesus recoiled at in the Garden. The physical death, as bad as it was, did not touch the spiritual death Christ must endure.

Jesus Christ was not being judged by Rome as a criminal. He was being judged by God as Sin.

The fake news is what you are attempting to present. The lie of the serpent. 'Thou shalt not surely die." Sounds good though and many here will jump at it. It fits the old hen theology of love, love, love. God just loved Jesus so much He would never forsake Him. Nausea.

You're clueless. You missed the dart board, what any spot on it.
What Jesus suffered—THE DEATH OF DEATH—, suffered He ALIVE, WILLING, OBEDIENT BEFORE AND PLEASING TO THE FATHER; indeed, suffered He WITH the Father AS the Father, IN the Father and suffered the Father, IN HIM!

 

[Nancy]

Shall God judge His people for sinning willfully after having received knowledge of the truth that there is no more sacrifice for sins and yet continue to work as if they still need to receive that one time sacrifice for sins presently again in the Mass or in an unBiblical communion? Would He not be wroth with those that treat the blood of the New Covenant to be on par with the blood of goats and bulls as if the first time was not good enough to have saved His people when they had received Him at their salvation by believing in Him?

And yet as God shall judge His people, they are still considered in His words as His people.

In Psalm 89, the prophesy about the New Covenant that in dealing with children of disobedience, the rebellious, His Covenant will not be removed from them even though He shall visit them with stripes. They are His forever, but better to depart from iniquity before the Bridegroom comes. Luke 12:40-49 cites those receiving stripes as still His servants.

Hello JIF...long time no see. Hope you are well!

 

[Hisman]

Hello JIF...long time no see. Hope you are well!

I think you will find his post there was actually posted last summer. :)

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Death is separation from God. Spiritual death is spiritual separation from God. (Is. 59:2) "But your iniquities have separated between you and your God,and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear."

If separation from God were death --your misconception, mark!-- how is God here speaking to THE LIVING?!

Jun 13, 2018#16

'~your iniquities~' - Jesus knew no iniquities and had, no, iniquities! He knew no sin and had, no, sin! Jesus had no sins which "hid God's face from Him, that He would not hear". Nothing could separate God from Christ not even death or grave, yea, nothing could separate God from Christ—NOT EVEN FROM HIS BODY in Life or Death!


Therefore Death did not separate Jesus from his Father or from the Holy Spirit of God. “Him .. Jesus of Nazareth .. delivered according to the determinate Councel and foreknowledge of God .. ye have crucified and slain with wicked hands .. Him hath God raised. Concerning Him, spake David:- I foresaw the LORD always before My Face for He is always on My Right Hand.” This is written of the Son as well as of the Father “because Thou wilt not leave My Soul in hell”—the “hell” of the whole of the Suffering of Jesus in Dying the death of Death the wages of sin for us. “Neither wilt Thou suffer / allow Thine Holy One to see corruption” in any of that wherein God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit IN FULL FELLOWSHIP OF ONE ANOTHER, made atonement and redeemed us. Death separates us from God, but not God from Christ. Jesus pulled down the partition between us and between us and God, so we have to fear nothing because “nothing can separate us from the love of God” through Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour.


Therefore though sin and death do separate us from God, to say that ‘~Death is separation from God~’, is not true:- “For I am persuaded that NEITHER DEATH nor life nor angels nor principalities nor powers nor things present nor things to come nor height (into heaven) nor depth (into hell) nor any other creature shall be able to separate us (or Jesus) from the love of God WHICH IS IN CHRIST JESUS our Lord!”

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

When Adam sinned he immediately died. (Gen. 2:17) "...in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." His spirit was separated from God. His body began dying, and would completely die 930 years later. (Gen. 5:5)

"...in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." He did eat the fruit of sin, that is death, all the days of his life. When Adam sinned he immediately died in Christ. Genesis 1:28c; 2:21; 3:8, 9, 15, 16, 21, 24=2:2,3

Adam's spirit --"the breath of (his, human) life" 2:7-- was neither separated from God nor from himself until the very day that "he - Adam..." --not only <his body>-- 930 years later "...died" Genesis 5:5, and Adam's body would return to dust and his spirit --"the breath of (his, human) life"-- to God.
Adam was nearer to God in death than in life!

And so was Jesus in the very day He died The Crucified : “King” and God The Redeemer of his People .. in the Full Fellowship of the Trinity the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. More absolute Jesus' Death and Triumph in Death over death could not be. Therefore God had to "Raise Christ from the dead Exalting Him and Resting Him His Heavenly Majesty at his own right hand and Give Him to the Church as Head".

 

[Stranger]

You're clueless. You missed the dart board, what any spot on it.
What Jesus suffered—THE DEATH OF DEATH—, suffered He ALIVE, WILLING, OBEDIENT BEFORE AND PLEASING TO THE FATHER; indeed, suffered He WITH the Father AS the Father, IN the Father and suffered the Father, IN HIM!

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

If separation from God were death --your misconception, mark!-- how is God here speaking to THE LIVING?!

Death is separation from God. God can be in your presence but you can still be separated from God. Jesus, God The Son, walked and talked and was crucified by many who were dead to God. They were separated from God.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

"...in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." When Adam sinned he immediately died in Christ. Genesis 1:28c; 2:21; 3:8, 9, 15, 16, 21, 24=2:2,3

Adam's spirit --"the breath of (his, human) life" 2:7-- was neither separated from God nor from himself until the very day that "he - Adam..." --not only <his body>-- 930 years later "...died" Genesis 5:5, and Adam's body would return to dust and his spirit --"the breath of (his, human) life"-- to God.
Adam was nearer to God in death than in life!

And so was Jesus in the very day He died The Crucified : “King” and God The Redeemer of his People .. in the Full Fellowship of the Trinity the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. More absolute Jesus Death and Triumph in Death over death could not be.

No. When Adam sinned he didn't die in Christ. You are very confused.

Stranger

 

[APAK]

You're clueless. You missed the dart board, what any spot on it.
What Jesus suffered—THE DEATH OF DEATH—, suffered He ALIVE, WILLING, OBEDIENT BEFORE AND PLEASING TO THE FATHER; indeed, suffered He WITH the Father AS the Father, IN the Father and suffered the Father, IN HIM!

GE..your answer is similar to most Trinitarians...confusing and untrue...because this is one of several areas of scripture where the Trinity model breaks down completely. The Father did not forsake Jesus. He did separate himself from his Son temporarily though.

As Stranger said...Jesus' spirit was separated from his Father as Jesus HAD to die as one under the Law in Hades. Incidentally Hades is considered a place of the Father's domain after death; as is Paradise. All spirits are in the Father's keeping after death.

His Father reunited him with himself in his resurrection...to immortality for the first time in his existence.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

GE..your answer is similar to most Trinitarians...confusing and untrue...because this is one of several areas of scripture where the Trinity model breaks down completely. The Father did not forsake Jesus. He did separate himself from his Son temporarily though.

As Stranger said...Jesus' spirit was separated from his Father as Jesus HAD to die as one under the Law in Hades. Incidentally Hades is considered a place of the Father's domain after death; as is Paradise. All spirits are in the Father's keeping after death.

His Father reunited him with himself in his resurrection...to immortality for the first time in his existence.

Bless you,

APAK

I lack the decency and craftsmanship in fact christian virtue of patience to waste my time on your c.r.a.p., CRAP!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

Stranger

Just as well.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I said what (2 Cor. 5:21) said. " For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin;" Christ became sin on the Cross and was judged by God. Thus He was forsaken by God when the Sin of the world was laid upon Him.

You wrote, <~the separation of the Father from the God/Man, Jesus Christ, Who now became sin for us. This is what Jesus recoiled at in the Garden.~>
You did NOT write or say <~what (2 Cor. 5:21) said. "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin"~> NOTE: from which will of God Jesus never <recoiled from>, but ONE WITH THE FATHER WILLED AND WROUGHT!

You said what you wrote and here REPEAT: <~Christ became sin...~>. The problem is with you, that you are unable to see the difference between what you say and what Scripture says.

God "made Him sin for us" and judged Him as having been "made sin for us" by God; not as one who <~became sin~> incarnate inherent in the Person of the Son of God, which would be blasphemy and would make Jesus the personification of sin which the devil is.

 

[Stranger]

You wrote, <~the separation of the Father from the God/Man, Jesus Christ, Who now became sin for us. This is what Jesus recoiled at in the Garden.~>
You did NOT write or say <~what (2 Cor. 5:21) said. "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin"~> NOTE: from which will of God Jesus never <recoiled from>, but ONE WITH THE FATHER WILLED AND WROUGHT!

You said what you wrote and here REPEAT: <~Christ became sin...~>. The problem is with you, that you are unable to see the difference between what you say and what Scripture says.

God "made Him sin for us" and judged Him as having been "made sin for us" by God; not as one who <~became sin~> incarnate inherent in the Person of the Son of God, which would be blasphemy and would make Jesus the personification of sin which the devil is.

Christ became sin. Christ said why hast thou forsaken me. I have said what Scripture says.

Stranger

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Well, just pretend that (2 Cor. 5:21) is not the Word of God. It is just a mans error. Get your marker and blot it out.

I did not present a false picture. I presented the real picture which was in contrast to what you presented.

(Luke 22:39-44) "And he came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him. And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation. And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down and prayed, Saying, Father if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

"And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. "

(Matt. 26:36-38) "Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder. And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy. Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me."

(Heb. 5:7) "Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death and was heard in that he feared."

Jesus Christ went to the Cross faithfully and soberly, but with much dread. Not 'eagerly' as you want to present. I believe that in Jesus whole life here on this earth, He dreaded that day and it was always on His mind.

Thank you and my apology; I much better appreciate this post. Jesus dreaded --yes He "dreaded / suffered anxiety even unto death", you are right. But He never <recoiled> from that which He <dreaded>. The more Jesus <dreaded>, the more "DESIRED" He "to eat" the bread of sorrow and entreated He the Father to let Him empty the cup of His Eternal Purpose and Design. That Christ 'dreaded', and that He "greatly desired" / was "eager" to do Thy Will, o God, are complementary truths, not exclusive contradictions.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Giday mate. I don't find myself in agreement with you that often, and there is a small detail here I could debate, but overall, I agree with the above, and subsequent post further down. If Jesus wasn't fully and completely separated from His Father, that is fully and completely die just as the sinner must die and experience that same separation if he refuses the mercy of God offered through the blood of Christ, if the Son was not a full propitiation, taking all the penalty, paying the full ransom, then we are still miserably and utterly lost.

To <die just as the sinner> dies and be <a full propitiation .. paying the full ransom>, is impossible for anyone just a sinner. Only One Fully God can pay the full ransom the full propitiation for the <miserably and utterly lost>. Not so?

You agree?

Then how could Jesus be the <full propitiation> or <pay the full ransom> if He was not nor died The Only One Fully God IN THE FULL FELLOWSHIP OF GOD TRI-UNE the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit? How could Jesus who did the dying and paying with his own Life not be Fully God Offering Himself the Sacrifice for <full propitiation .. the full ransom> for our lost and sold under sin souls?! Jesus DIED fully God in Full Fellowship of Father Son and Holy Spirit or an impostor, someone just a sinner like all of us, faked our atonement with : GOD!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

GerhardEbersoehn said: "The CAUSE of his "sweat" was not '~physical torture~' by man, but the intense and acute Divine awareness and abhorrence of his "SOUL" for the sins, of man."

This is what I wrote- "Jesus experienced far more than just physical pain, the separation from the Father and Holy Spirit had (IMHO) to be the reason, and not the physical torture He knew was coming..."
So, I never said the cause of His sweat was due to physical torture...pretty much the opposite,

I KNOW He was not afraid of what man could do to Him.
Have a nice day.

Thank you indeed. I did not feel comfortable with my post, I must say, maybe I was sleepy or tired, I cannot remember. No excuses though. But I just saw where I sort of lost track. I should not have said, "The CAUSE of his "sweat" was not '~physical torture~' by man, but the intense and acute Divine awareness and abhorrence of his "SOUL" for the sins, of man."

“…was not '~physical torture~' by man~--, there’s my fault!

I should have written, "The CAUSE of his "sweat" was not '~separation from God~' by God, but the intense and acute Divine awareness and abhorrence of his "SOUL" for the sins, of man." Virtually the opposite of what I wrote!

So thank you; I herewith do the necessary improvement.

 

[Nancy]

Thank you indeed. I did not feel comfortable with my post, I must say, maybe I was sleepy or tired, I cannot remember. No excuses though. But I just saw where I sort of lost track. I should not have said, "The CAUSE of his "sweat" was not '~physical torture~' by man, but the intense and acute Divine awareness and abhorrence of his "SOUL" for the sins, of man."

“…was not '~physical torture~' by man~--, there’s my fault!

I should have written, "The CAUSE of his "sweat" was not '~separation from God~' by God, but the intense and acute Divine awareness and abhorrence of his "SOUL" for the sins, of man." Virtually the opposite of what I wrote!

So thank you; I herewith do the necessary improvement.

I kind of thought it was just a miss-interp. We all do it...I even sometimes reply to the wrong post as well.
It's not a thing...go get some sleep, lol! ♥

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

GE:
Here is your post I referred to

Nancy wrote in post Jun 15, 2018#44

Yes Stranger, I agree. I also agree (with an earlier post of yours) that Jesus experienced far more than just physical pain, the separation from the Father and Holy Spirit had (IMHO) to be the reason, and not the physical torture He knew was coming for the "His sweat as it were... drops of blood" in Gethsemane while praying so fervently...He knew He would, for the 1st time ever, be separated from the Father. Just MHO.
-nancy

But as you are saying, It's not a thing...go get some sleep; because this was my reply on this post of yours, Nancy,
Jun 15, 2018#54
GE:
How good then, that we actually agree and say the same thing. Point is, "his flesh saw no corruption in death", OR, in DYING death. '~Recoiled~" Jesus for the blink of an eye, his sweat would have been as were it caused by and the result of '~physical torture~' by man.
Have a day heavy laden with thoughts on these things.