Did God Forsake Jesus?

[Stranger]

GB:
It seems I do not agree with what you have said, and it's hard to understand your writing in its form anyway. You know having scripture alongside your writing as a reference can help great deal

thanks.

Bless you,

APAK

Many write awkwardly to hide their ignorance of the topic under discussion. It is common on forums.

Stranger

 

[Willie T]

Considering that English is usually the second language of most South Africans, I think GB writes admirably. I wonder how many of us can write as well in another language?

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

That was true for Jesus when he felt forsaken and it's true for you when you feel that way too.

If Jesus spoke only the truth, and no lie, then what He had said on the cross must be true. I do not believe we can give grace to what Jesus has said by saying what He was feeling was wrong when He said it too.

If the Lord our Redeemer said this in regards to other people;

Isaiah 54:7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee. 8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the Lord thy Redeemer.

Then He did meant it when said on the cross, but His words are the same as the Father's so I can see the Father saying those words in Isaiah 54:7-8.

Indeed, His saying was prophesied. It was not a spur of the moment saying spoken from the flesh. See this prophesy about Jesus in Psalm 22.

Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 22 - King James Version

 

[Willie T]

If Jesus spoke only the truth, and no lie, then what He had said on the cross must be true. I do not believe we can give grace to what Jesus has said by saying what He was feeling was wrong when He said it too.

If the Lord our Redeemer said this in regards to other people;

Isaiah 54:7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee. 8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the Lord thy Redeemer.

Then He did meant it when said on the cross, but His words are the same as the Father's so I can see the Father saying those words in Isaiah 54:7-8.

Indeed, His saying was prophesied. It was not a spur of the moment saying spoken from the flesh. See this prophesy about Jesus in Psalm 22.

Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 22 - King James Version

People don't seem to understand that Jesus was quoting that 22nd Psalm... and that all those listening knew the continuation of His words. It is worth reading it to see that it ends up with the Psalmist knowing God never left him. (Note verse 24)

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

People don't seem to understand that Jesus was quoting that 22nd Psalm... and that all those listening knew the continuation of His words. It is worth reading it to see that it ends up with the Psalmist knowing God never left him. (Note verse 24)

When it comes to God's word, finality has a way of being applied by men at the expense of His other words.

Was Jesus forsaken at that brief moment on the cross. I believe so because He said so. He cannot lie. BUT that does not mean He was speaking a finality to this event on the cross...obviously.

Having been forsaken on the cross by the Father does not mean the Father has left Him forever. Jesus cried, and He heard. He responded in according to His word.

The forsaking was but for a moment as His word does declare, but the Father did not leave Him forever.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

GB:
It seems I do not agree with what you have said, and it's hard to understand your writing in its form anyway. You know having scripture alongside your writing as a reference can help great deal

Jesus WAS and forever is --- Revelation 1:4, 8; 4:8 Acts 7:9 et al

"The Presence" --- Exodus 33:14,15 Luke 1;76 et al

"GOD with us" --- Matthew 1:23 Deuteronomy 31:23 et al

The ’FULL’ power of GOD --- Ephesians 1:19,20 Matthew 28:18 Romans 1:4 et al

the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit '~performed~' --- Ephesians 1:19,20 Jeremiah 51:20 Luke 1:20 Psalm 65:1 et al

in full and perfect union and oneness --- John 10:30 Genesis 49:5,6, 10 Psalm 86:10-17 Ephesians 4 John 17 Deuteronomy 6:4 Mark 12:29 et al

predestined and ordained for --- Ephesians 1:9-13 Romans 8:29-34 Psalm 81 Acts 17:31 et al

He was as '~comfortable with his Father’s power inside him~' as Man as in Eternity before his Incarnation. Revelation --- Hebrews 7:3 Revelation 1:8 Colossians 1:11-20 et al


He never had to do something '~alone~'; the '~full power~' of the Tri-Une Godhead started and completed Christ's '~mission~', every moment on the cross included and, especially!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

He responded in according to His word.

'~He the Father responded in according to His word.~'

That confirms the perfect faithfulness of God the Father as well as Son. But you mean what you say meant faithfulness from either to another to have been abolished even though but for the short duration of a ‘~brief moment~’. A miss is as good as a mile and unfaithfulness as far from faithfulness as the thoughts of God above the thoughts of men.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Was Jesus forsaken at that brief moment on the cross. I believe so because He said so.

Jesus did not '~say so~'. Wrong translations do; but not the Greek, as shown more than once on christianityboard, but as many times simply disdained.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

'~He the Father responded in according to His word.~'

That confirms the perfect faithfulness of God the Father as well as Son. But you mean what you say meant faithfulness from either to another to have been abolished even though but for a short duration. A miss is as good as a mile and unfaithfulness as far from faithfulness as the thoughts of God above the thoughts of men.

In Psalm 89, there is a prophesy about the New Covenant. God can show wrath on the children of disobedience But still they are His children.

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Jesus did not '~say so~'. Wrong translations do; but not the Greek, as shown more than once on christianityboard, but as many times simply disdained.

Was Jesus putting on an act on the cross? I believe His ordeal was real, but it was temporary.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

In Psalm 89, there is a prophesy about the New Covenant. God can show wrath on the children of disobedience But still they are His children.

Would you bargain on it? I thought when pappa Dagon is your pappa, you are pappa Dagon's child?

 

[Enoch111]

God can show wrath on the children of disobedience But still they are His children.

In what sense? Children of God cannot be identical to children of disobedience.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Was Jesus putting on an act on the cross? I believe His ordeal was real, but it was temporary.

His ordeal was no game, but his eternal love's suffering in the reality of his temporality.

I must better not philosophise. I am very bad at it.

 

[Stranger]

People don't seem to understand that Jesus was quoting that 22nd Psalm... and that all those listening knew the continuation of His words. It is worth reading it to see that it ends up with the Psalmist knowing God never left him. (Note verse 24)

People don't seem to understand that Jesus Christ knew He had been forsaken and experienced it. For the first time in all eternity, there was separation between the Father and Son. At the end, yes that relationship was restored, but it was first separated due to the sin of the world being placed on Christ.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

In what sense? Children of God cannot be identical to children of disobedience.

i dunno, the Sons of God came in to the daughters of men, right

 

[Enoch111]

i dunno, the Sons of God came in to the daughters of men, right

Totally unrelated.

But these "sons of God" were "the angels that sinned" or "the angels which kept not their first estate", and because of their wickedness are now imprisoned in Tartarus.

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell [Greek ταρταρόω = Tartarus], and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment... (2 Pet 2:4)

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. (Jude 1:6)

 

[APAK]

Jesus WAS and forever is --- Revelation 1:4, 8; 4:8 Acts 7:9 et al

"The Presence" --- Exodus 33:14,15 Luke 1;76 et al

"GOD with us" --- Matthew 1:23 Deuteronomy 31:23 et al

The ’FULL’ power of GOD --- Ephesians 1:19,20 Matthew 28:18 Romans 1:4 et al

the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit '~performed~' --- Ephesians 1:19,20 Jeremiah 51:20 Luke 1:20 Psalm 65:1 et al

in full and perfect union and oneness --- John 10:30 Genesis 49:5,6, 10 Psalm 86:10-17 Ephesians 4 John 17 Deuteronomy 6:4 Mark 12:29 et al

predestined and ordained for --- Ephesians 1:9-13 Romans 8:29-34 Psalm 81 Acts 17:31 et al

He was as '~comfortable with his Father’s power inside him~' as Man as in Eternity before his Incarnation. Revelation --- Hebrews 7:3 Revelation 1:8 Colossians 1:11-20 et al


He never had to do something '~alone~'; the '~full power~' of the Tri-une Godhead started and completed Christ's '~mission~', every moment on the cross included and, especially!

GE of SA, let me get back with you and thanks......APAK

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

In what sense? Children of God cannot be identical to children of disobedience.

Shall God judge His people for sinning willfully after having received knowledge of the truth that there is no more sacrifice for sins and yet continue to work as if they still need to receive that one time sacrifice for sins presently again in the Mass or in an unBiblical communion? Would He not be wroth with those that treat the blood of the New Covenant to be on par with the blood of goats and bulls as if the first time was not good enough to have saved His people when they had received Him at their salvation by believing in Him?

And yet as God shall judge His people, they are still considered in His words as His people.

In Psalm 89, the prophesy about the New Covenant that in dealing with children of disobedience, the rebellious, His Covenant will not be removed from them even though He shall visit them with stripes. They are His forever, but better to depart from iniquity before the Bridegroom comes. Luke 12:40-49 cites those receiving stripes as still His servants.

 

[APAK]

@GerhardEbersoehn ..back again and hello again..

(Rev 1:4) John to the seven churches that are in Asia. Grace to you and peace, from Him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits that are before His throne.
(Rev 1:5) And from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him that loves us and freed us from our sins by his blood,
(Rev 1:8) I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty. (ALL NEV)

Verse 4 is God Almighty. Verse 5 is about Jesus Christ, and Verse 8 is also about God Almighty.

(Rev 4:8) And the four living creatures each had six wings, full of eyes round about and within; and they have no rest day and night, saying: Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God, the Almighty, who was and who is and who is to come.(NEV)

This is God Almighty

(Act 7:9) And the patriarchs, moved with jealousy against Joseph, sold him into Egypt; but God was with him,(NEV)

This is God Almighty

(Exo 33:14) He said, My presence will go with you, and I will give you rest.
(Exo 33:15) He said to Him, If Your presence doesn’t go with me, don’t carry us up from here.(ALL NEV)

This is God Almighty

(Luk 1:76) Yes, and you, child, shall be called the prophet of the Most High. For you shall go before the presence of the Lord to make ready His ways,(NEV)

This John the Baptist

(Mat 1:23) The virgin shall be with child and shall give birth to a son; and they shall call his name Immanuel, which means God with us. (NEV)

God spirit was with us Immanuel, in His son, as 2 Cor. 5:19 indicates: “That God was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself.”

It is important to read exactly what was written: God was in Christ, not God was Christ.

Are we to believe then that Elijah was “God Jehovah,” or that Bithiah, a daughter of Pharaoh, was the sister of Jesus because her name is “daughter of Jehovah?”

God was in Jesus at his birth and then more powerfully after his baptism as the Christ to the cross, and involved in his resurrection.

As the Son of God and as the image of God, God is with us in Jesus, but the name does not make Jesus God.


(Deu 31:23) He commissioned Joshua the son of Nun and said, Be strong and courageous, for you shall bring the children of Israel into the land which I swore to them, and I will be with you. (NEV)

This Joshua the son of Nun

(Eph 1:19) and what the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to that working of the strength of His might
(Eph 1:20) which He wrought in Christ, when He raised him from the dead and had him sit at His right hand in heaven, (ALL NEV)

This is the power of the Almighty God in action, within Jesus, the son of God. Or can be expanded to say it is God’s spirit in action who is also the Father of Jesus and believers. There is no Jesus is action here. The son was the recipient of this action by his Father.

Can you explain what you mean by the son performed in Ephesians 1:19-20? What did he do/action?

(Jer 51:19) The portion of Jacob is not like these; for He is the former of all things; and Jacob is the tribe of His inheritance: Yahweh of Armies is His name.
(Jer 51:20) You are my battle axe and weapons of war: and with you will I break in pieces the nations; and with you will I destroy kingdoms;(NEV)

Israel is the battle axe of God. What does this have to do with the son of God?

(Mat 28:18) And Jesus came to them and spoke to them, saying: All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth.(NEV)

You bet Jesus was given the power of God (within him) and authority to use it. He would commence when he ascended to heaven with immortality from God.

(Rom 1:3)" concerning His Son, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, "
(Rom 1:4)" who was declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord, " (ALL NEV)

Yes, Jesus born as a human being was given the power of his Father ,and now because of his resurrection from the dead he is called our Lord.

(Luk 1:20) And you shall be dumb and not able to speak until the day that these things shall come to pass, because you did not believe my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season. (NEV)

The angel is speaking as a representative of God. Why did you present Luke 1:20, for what? What has to do with the son of God.

(Psa 65:1) Praise waits for You, God, in Zion. To You shall vows be performed.

This is about God Almighty, nothing to do with Jesus.

(Joh 10:30) I and the Father are one.(NEV)

Short version: Jesus and his Father worked together in one purpose as his Father’s spirit in power was dwelling inside Jesus, the human being. This is not any hypostasis theory happening here, or dual nature in effect. It is only Jesus with only one possible nature – human nature.

I think I’ll stop here. I could answer or explain the rest of the verses you pose, although I get a little tired of doing all the explaining and homework for everyone with the same amount of effort done in return.

If you really believe in the trinity model you would do more that just throw out a bunch of misused verses for your defense. I reckon you really do not have one because you cannot explain your view in any clarity.

Nevertheless, I at least responded to your post.


Bless you,



APAK

 

[Enoch111]

As the Son of God and as the image of God, God is with us in Jesus, but the name does not make Jesus God.

How so? If Jesus is not God, He could not possibly be the Lamb of God to take away the sin of the world. While He was born a sinless Man, He is fully God, as we see here (Isa 9:6):

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Thus we read in Acts 20:28: Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

There is only one who shed His blood and is also God. Jesus.