Did God Forsake Jesus?

[Nancy]

GE:
Here is your post I referred to

Nancy wrote in post Jun 15, 2018#44

Yes Stranger, I agree. I also agree (with an earlier post of yours) that Jesus experienced far more than just physical pain, the separation from the Father and Holy Spirit had (IMHO) to be the reason, and not the physical torture He knew was coming for the "His sweat as it were... drops of blood" in Gethsemane while praying so fervently...He knew He would, for the 1st time ever, be separated from the Father. Just MHO.
-nancy

But as you are saying, It's not a thing...go get some sleep; because this was my reply on this post of yours, Nancy,
Jun 15, 2018#54
GE:
How good then, that we actually agree and say the same thing. Point is, "his flesh saw no corruption in death", OR, in DYING death. '~Recoiled~" Jesus for the blink of an eye, his sweat would have been as were it caused by and the result of '~physical torture~' by man.
Have a day heavy laden with thoughts on these things.

Amen! My thought's and prayers of and to God, and the things of God are heavy laden everyday, and gladly so.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Jesus still shows us the scars on his hands,

Not scars or (open) wounds, but inconspicuous "prints" like marks or folds properly noticeable only if one actually reached and felt it, John 20:25,27.

I have not seen one commentator who noticed Jesus' Divine Omniscience revealed in this Scripture, and none who has seen Thomas' surprising insight.

Thomas is 'better known' as the unbelieving Thomas we are all familiar with. But I say Thomas was the only disciple who at all believed! Rather than the unbelieving Thomas I should say he should be called the inquisitive Thomas. Where was Thomas the first time Jesus appeared to the disciples in the upper room? I think he was studying the Scriptures while the other disciples --literally-- "crammed in" in the upper room for fear of the Jews. Thomas purposely read the Scriptures to find out about, especially, the phenomenon witnessed by so many people when they Crucified Him and drove nails through Jesus' hands and feet. Vaguely Thomas remembered that he heard something like it read in the synagogue on Sabbath Days from Moses and the Psalms and Prophets. If it was true that that was what happened to this Man Jesus from Nazareth...Nazareth...that also rings a bell... well these things all put together, then Jesus has to be The Son of Man the Scriptures witness of!

So that was why Thomas Didimus wasn't with the other disciples eight days back! He was the only "true believer" the only one who dared express his doubts because he had the guts to test his beliefs with Scripture while the others <sat there like wet rained chickens in their fowl coop*> disconsolate and non-plussed. [*Apologies to Karl Barth]

Now what does that say about Jesus' Divine Omniscience revealed in this Scripture? Jesus did not hear Thomas argue, but He challenged Thomas on the exact specifics, that's what!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I agree that no human sacrifice could have been sufficient to meet our need. But it wasn't just a human sacrifice...If it were, the divine part still lived in God as part of the trinity, hence the confusion. It was the Son of God who died. Not just a human body, but a divine personality Who had taken humanity as His own...become one with us in our humanity while retaining His divine nature. God gave His Son. His Son became man. But a divine person died on Calvary. Not just a human person.

Exactly. Amen

 

[Davy]

Lots of people love to deny the truth of this....
Did The Father Forsake Jesus On The Cross? No!
by Steve McVey
For many years I taught the seven sayings of the cross and when I came to the words of Jesus, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" I used the text as evidence that the Father had turned His back on His own Son when Jesus was on the cross. "The Bible is clear that God cannot look upon sin!" I would boldly proclaim. It seemed reasonable to me that God turned away from Jesus. After all, isn't that what Jesus said?

The answer is, "No, that is not what He said. That is what He asked. There's a big difference between making an assertion and asking a question."

"Do you mean Jesus was wrong?" you might ask. My answer is that it was Jesus, the Man who became sin for us. When he absorbed the darkness and weight of the sin of the world into Himself, He had the sense of abandonment by God the Father that sin always brings. Blinded by sin and horrified by its effect on and in Him, the man Jesus cried out of His humanity, "Why have you forsaken me?" In that moment, He identified Himself with every person who has ever felt abandoned by God. He became one who felt isolated, lonely, abandoned, forsaken and hopeless on behalf of you, me, and everybody who would ever feel that way.

The question Jesus spoke was a direct quote from the prophetic Psalm 22, where in the very first verse the psalmist asks, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" It is noteworthy that this is the only time Jesus ever called His Father "God" and not "Father." In that moment,the man Jesus felt forsaken. Having become sin for us, He could not feel or sense or see His Father's embrace at that moment.

The gospels don't record an answer to His question, but Psalm 22 does. In response to the first verse where the psalmist cries out the prophetic words, "Why have you forsaken me?" there is an answer in verse 24. Here's the answer to the question of Jesus, the question of the psalmist and the question of every person who has ever felt abandoned by the Father: For he (God the Father) has not despised or disdained the suffering of the afflicted one; he has not hidden his face from him but has listened to his cry for help.

Sin may deafen our ears to the answer, but the reality is that the Father has never and will never despise, disdain or turn His face away from us, forsaking us. He has heard our cry for help!

God the Father forsaking His own Son? Impossible! God the Father was "in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself!" (2 Corinthians 5:19) Jesus didn't feel it at the time. It seemed like the Father had forsaken Him, but He hadn't! Nor will He ever forsake you.

But what about the "God cannot look upon sin" part? Doesn't the Bible say that? Well, it does but we need to put that comment in context. It was Habakkuk the prophet who said that as he watched evil people seemingly getting away with their sins. Here's the whole quote in context:

Your eyes are too pure to look on evil; you cannot tolerate wrong. Why then do you tolerate the treacherous? Why are you silent while the wicked swallow up those more righteous than themselves? Habakkuk 1:13

To paraphrase him, Habakkuk said, "Your eyes are too pure to look on evil and you can't tolerate wrong so why are you?" In other words, it made no sense to Habakkuk that God was looking on sin when Habakkuk believed that wasn't possible. He was smearing the face of God with the guilt and shame of humanity the same way Adam had done when he hid himself in the Garden of Eden because He thought God wouldn't want to look at him after he sinned. Adam was wrong. God came for His walk that day just as He had every day. And Habakkuk was wrong too.

The fact is that God can look upon sin. Some people act as if the relationship of God the Father to sin is like Superman's aversion to kryptonite. They act as if God is afraid of sin, but nothing could be further from the truth. In Christ Jesus, sin has been destroyed - finished- end of story. (See Daniel 9:24) Through the finished work of the cross, sin has been defeated! God hates sin because of what it does to us, not because it does anything to Him.

So, on the cross Jesus took the sin of the world upon Himself. As a man who became sin for us (so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him), He felt forsaken, but He was not. The Father did hear His cry and, as the empty tomb three days later proves, did not forsake Him. The question of Jesus the man was: "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" The answer from God the Father was: "I haven't! I've not despised, disdained nor forsaken you. I'm here with you, in this moment, carrying you through this death to the glorious resurrection on the other side."

That was true for Jesus when he felt forsaken and it's true for you when you feel that way too.

But the real... reason our Lord Jesus quoted from David in Psalms 22:1 was because our Lord was TEACHING, even while He was on the cross.

For our Lord Jesus to quote that from Psalms 22, a Scripture given through David about 1,000 years prior to Christ's crucifixion, it was pointing out to those present that This is He, The Christ, as God prophesied through David.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

How so? If Jesus is not God, He could not possibly be the Lamb of God to take away the sin of the world. While He was born a sinless Man, He is fully God, as we see here (Isa 9:6):

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Thus we read in Acts 20:28: Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

There is only one who shed His blood and is also God. Jesus.

I agree with you. How is the only way I can agree with you? IN THE FAITH of Jesus Christ WHO "POURED OUT HIS SOUL" -- his LIFE in the fullness thereof being "GOD with us" "the ALL in all fulfilling FULLNESS OF GOD". In his Life is the blood that cleanses from sin, in his SOUL the Water of Life that He washed us in of our sin.
Until you QUOTE Scripture stating Jesus shod - bled human - animal blood like the blood the passover lamb bled, every effort you make to get blood out of Jesus' alive veins, is AS FUTILE AS ALL THE ATTEMPTS THOSE WHO CRUCIFIED JESUS ATTEMPTED, and should be reason for you to read Hebrews 6 again.

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, to all.

Addressing the OP, and not having read all of the post.
The question is asked, did God forsake the son on the cross. answer, NO. as a matter of fact, when Jesus said that it is finished, yes, on Sin in the world, but the glory and, the wonderful work of God just began. after preaching to the spirits in prison, then the day of Pentecost. this was not a end, but the begining of something wonderful.

the Op hit at it and a few other, but consider this. as said, "God cannot look upon sin",
this is bared out in Isa chapter 59, read this chapter real good. the word forsaking, (forsook), means to abandon, desert, leave. or note this "sacrificed". the present of the Father in that body, ( came out of the son, because, 2 Corinthians 5:19a "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them".), because his "WORK" was "FINISHED". now the sins of the whole world will be laid on him, (Jesus the diversity, the "SON", the G2758 κενόω kenoo of God himself).

This word forsook is interesting. Forsook , or forsaking is the act of, or the allowing of one to be sacrifice. Note, to clearly see this, another word, or some synonyms words for forsook as said are, renounced, relinquished, “sacrificed”. Sacrificed is the word we are looking for. For the Lord God did provide for himself a sacrifice, (a lamb). Genesis 22:8 "And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together”. And who is this LAMB?, God, himself diversified in flesh. John 1:29 "The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world". John 1:35 "Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples; 36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!"
and this is bared out in Hebrews 9:26. "For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself”. Also again, proof of Jesus preexistence. God cannot dwell in an unclean place, and the scripture is clear, God will never forsake you, nor leave you, read Hebrews 13:15. and reading the whole chapter of Isa, the entire book is worth reading, but Jesus the lamb of God, was made/design to suffer, even the death of the cross. Philippians 2:5 " Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross".

upon that death, it released, or relinquished, (that's what forsook means), the full power and attributes of God in human form. Glory to Jesus. No more blood to hinder the Power of God. now the same eternal Spirit, that is, and was, is now to come, the Holy Spiritis in full power in a BODY. Jesus is Spirit in Glorified form. now Jesus/God/Spirit is fully diverse in heaven as well as on earth, (the model prayer "thy Kingdom con, as in heaven as on earth"). 1 Corinthians 12:4 "Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit". in his final administration, this process of forsooking was to give us the same power he had, WITHOUT MEASURE. John 14:12 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father". that's why we have the ministering Gifts which was poured out on Pentecost. all because of his, "forsaking", which is a GOOD THING. as the apostlr Peter said, Acts 2:32 "This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear". which takes us to the last dispensation of GRACE. the preaching of the Gospel. the ongoing work of the ministry, world redemption. Ephesians 4:11 "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ. 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ".

there is more to this "forsaking" of the Son on the cross, but that's for more topic to cover.

PICJAG.

 

[Enoch111]

Addressing the OP, and not having read all of the post.
The question is asked, did God forsake the son on the cross. answer, NO.

How can the answer be "NO" when Jesus said it is "YES"? Are you wiser than Him, or do you understand the cross better than Christ?

It is simply amazing how people can blatantly deny things which are affirmed in the Bible as though they are smarter than God.

Had the Father not forsaken the Son during those three dark hours, Christ would not have asked in anguish "Why hast thou forsaken me"? Both in the Hebrew and the Aramaic, that word means abandoned or deserted or forsaken.

 

[101G]

How can the answer be "NO" when Jesus said it is "YES"? Are you wiser than Him, or do you understand the cross better than Christ?

It is simply amazing how people can blatantly deny things which are affirmed in the Bible as though they are smarter than God.

Had the Father not forsaken the Son during those three dark hours, Christ would not have asked in anguish "Why hast thou forsaken me"? Both in the Hebrew and the Aramaic, that word means abandoned or deserted or forsaken.

did you read my response carefully? I guess no.

PICJAG

 

[Davy]

Ah... some here are telling on themselves!

GOD cannot forsake Himself.

Jesus was quoting from Psalms 22, a prophecy about His crucifixion God gave through His servant David about 1,000 years before. Jesus was giving proof that He is The Christ, even while on His cross.

It is Humanist Philosophy to go into all sorts of tirades of Jesus' seemingly weakness while on the cross. Did He suffer on the cross? Yes, His flesh did. But He never was in a moment of spiritual weakness that would point to blasphemy, as if The Father had rejected Him at His death. Jesus knew what He had come to do, and was prepared for it.

But a bunch of milly-mouthed haters who love... to mock our Lord Jesus, will spread lies among Christ's body just to trick the gullible preachers into preaching Jesus is Weak false messages among the Church! God rebuke them!

 

[APAK]

And so when out Lord died on the cross, and was raised to immoral life by his Father, do Trinitarians still hang on to their bedrock belief that Jesus was born and died as
the incarnate of God Almighty. And because of hypostatic union he still has dual natures. Scripture clearly says Jesus was born by his Father as a human being, the 2nd and Last Adam. He died as a human being and his Father raised him to glory as foretold and promised. I hope folks do not believe Jesus has dual natures when he was born and today. Two natures means two spirits. I hope my Lord has one nature! Did Jesus somehow hide one of his spirits whilst on earth and today...sounds pretty chaotic...

We have one God the Father who is the Spirit and One human Jesus, the Son of the Father and our Lord Savior. Amen

Blessings,

APAK

 

[101G]

And so when out Lord died on the cross, and was raised to immoral life by his Father, do Trinitarians still hang on to their bedrock belief that Jesus was born and died as
the incarnate of God Almighty. And because of hypostatic union he still has dual natures. Scripture clearly says Jesus was born by his Father as a human being, the 2nd and Last Adam. He died as a human being and his Father raised him to glory as foretold and promised. I hope folks do not believe Jesus has dual natures when he was born and today. Two natures means two spirits. I hope my Lord has one nature! Did Jesus somehow hide one of his spirits whilst on earth and today...sounds pretty chaotic...

We have one God the Father who is the Spirit and One human Jesus, the Son of the Father and our Lord Savior. Amen

Blessings,

APAK

First thanks for the post. this is where "diversity" shine at. Jesus spirit, and that's with the small case "s" in spirit was a equal shared "Spirit" that was G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') when he was found in flesh. as a man, being the example for us, he was filled with his own Spirit, to show us the way, and do his work of reconciliation. 2 Corinthians 5:19 "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation". God the Holy Spirit was in "Christ", just as he, the Holy Spirit, is in us today, and we're "spirits". so having the "Spirit dwell in our bodies with us is nothing new.

and it was Jesus himself who raised his own body from the dead. supportive scripture, John 2:19 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
John 2:20 "Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
John 2:21 "But he spake of the temple of his body".

PICJAG.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Had the Father not forsaken the Son during those three dark hours, Christ would not have asked in anguish "Why hast thou forsaken me"? Both in the Hebrew and the Aramaic, that word means abandoned or deserted or forsaken.

Regardless now the correctness of the translation, Jesus did not <during those three dark hours> ask, "Why hast thou forsaken me?", but...
Mark 15:34,35 "At the ninth hour"
Matthew 27:46,47 "about the ninth hour"
John 19:28 "After this", the whole duration of having suffered dying,
"Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished", and
"cried out, I thirst"
Luke 23:47 "when the centurion SAW what was done", and
"Jesus had cried with a loud voice, and said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit; and having said thus, gave up the ghost", when the darkness was past.

 

[Wafer]

The problem here is first a translation error, and second everybody is making up stuff trying to pretend they know something when they don't.

Matthew 27:46 King James Version (KJV)
46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

The translators obviously had a problem, that is why they left the original words in there. There is no such word as "lama". There is a word "limna" which is a victory cry meaning approximately "For this cause." Sabachthani is an unusual form of a Hebrew word, Strong's H7604, usually translated left or spared or remained.

1 Kings 19:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 Yet I have left [H7604] me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.

There are some people in the world who are native speakers of Estrangelo Aramaic, commonly called "biblical Hebrew" and that is what they tell us. I got this information from Bishop K. C. Pillai. His books are available at amazon.com.

 

[Episkopos]

The problem here is first a translation error, and second everybody is making up stuff trying to pretend they know something when they don't.

Matthew 27:46 King James Version (KJV)
46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

The translators obviously had a problem, that is why they left the original words in there. There is no such word as "lama". There is a word "limna" which is a victory cry meaning approximately "For this cause." Sabachthani is an unusual form of a Hebrew word, Strong's H7604, usually translated left or spared or remained.

1 Kings 19:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 Yet I have left [H7604] me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.

There are some people in the world who are native speakers of Estrangelo Aramaic, commonly called "biblical Hebrew" and that is what they tell us. I got this information from Bishop K. C. Pillai. His books are available at amazon.com.

To the OP....I think we abandoned Jesus. To the quote above...that Aramaic crowds are always pushing their Peshitta. They go too far in their claims.

People who know Hebrew realize that Eli Eli lamah sabachthani...is indeed Hebrew. If it was Aramaic it would begin as " alahi, alahi, lemanah..."

What Jesus said on the cross was NOT Psalm 22:1...but a hybrid of that verse with a reference in Gen. 22...with the Hebrew word for "thicket".
In the Mss the word is "sevach" (thicket) In verb form (to entangle) it is sabach....making Jesus' statement "My God My God why have you entangled Me?"

For those who wish to remark on things that cannot be just coincidence...Jesus wore a crown of thorns as if He was the ram caught in the thicket. This goes to confirm His reference.

It takes a divine touch to wrap up 2 prophecies in one statement...and one event.

People are free to accept this or reject it.... like any other of the deeper truths hidden in the bible.

You can verify the Hebrew verb "entangle" (sabach) using a modern Hebrew dictionary...which I have.

 

[Wafer]

To the OP....I think we abandoned Jesus. To the quote above...that Aramaic crowds are always pushing their Peshitta. They go too far in their claims.

People who know Hebrew realize that in Eli Eli lamah sabachthani...is indeed Hebrew. If it was Aramaic it would begin as " alahi, alahi, lemanah..."

What Jesus said on the cross was NOT Psalm 22:1...but a hybrid of that verse with a reference in Gen. 22...with the Hebrew word for "thicket".
In the Mss the word is "sevach" (thicket) In verb form (to entangle) it is sabach....making Jesus' statement "My God My God why have you entangled Me?"

For those who wish to remark on things that cannot be just coincidence...Jesus wore a crown of thorns as if He was the ram caught in the thicket. This goes to confirm His reference.

It takes a divine touch to wrap up 2 prophecies in one statement...and one event.

People are free to accept this or reject it.... like any other of the deeper truths hidden in the bible.

You can verify the Hebrew verb "entangle" (sabach) using a modern Hebrew dictionary...which I have.

An actual attempt to relate the verse to documented material. That's wonderful!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

The problem here is first a translation error, and second everybody is making up stuff trying to pretend they know something when they don't.

Matthew 27:46 King James Version (KJV)
46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

The translators obviously had a problem, that is why they left the original words in there. There is no such word as "lama". There is a word "limna" which is a victory cry meaning approximately "For this cause." Sabachthani is an unusual form of a Hebrew word, Strong's H7604, usually translated left or spared or remained.

1 Kings 19:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 Yet I have left [H7604] me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.

There are some people in the world who are native speakers of Estrangelo Aramaic, commonly called "biblical Hebrew" and that is what they tell us. I got this information from Bishop K. C. Pillai. His books are available at amazon.com.

Beautiful! Thank you. It is seldom one sees such original and refreshing information on the net. I find your post very helpful and reconcilable with my own conclusions. God bless

John 18:24
ἀπέστειλεν οὖν αὐτὸν ὁ Ἄννας δεδεμένον πρὸς Καϊάφαν τὸν ἀρχιερέα.
Now Annas had sent him bound unto Caiaphas the high priest.

“Thou wilt not leave-alone my soul in hell!” WHERE JESUS GAINED VICTORY! “The Lord is a Man of War, the Lord triumphed greatly.”

Romans 9:28-30 “The Living God will finish .. the Lord will make a short work upon the earth .. The Lord of Sabaoth had left=sent us a Seed .. a Remnant (Christ the Seed) shall be saved”—Jesus’ situation and circumstance as well as prospect at that moment in time on the cross God “left”/“sanctified”/“separated” Him “into” and “for” – ‘εἰς τί’, was everything but ‘forsaken’ in the every day sense of it!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Jesus spirit, and that's with the small case "s" in spirit was a equal shared "Spirit" that was G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') when he was found in flesh. as a man, being the example for us, he was filled with his own Spirit, to show us the way, and do his work of reconciliation. 2 Corinthians 5:19 "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation". God the Holy Spirit was in "Christ",

This is truth. Because the Father did not ‘forsake’ the Son ever, not even for one moment! I am sure though that what I omitted from your post was unasked for, over-emphasis on the subjective mentality.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Suneses:
Jun 13, 2018#10
Jun 13, 2018#29
Suneses: Peshitta Aramaic, Eli, Eli, lemana shabakthani “My God, My God, for this I was spared - this was my destiny”. All eastern Bibles have “for this purpose I was spared” while the Occidental translations read “why hast thou forsaken me”: Could this be where fake news originated?
Christiaan Gerhardus Ebersöhn 1 min ·

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Christiaan Gerhardus Ebersöhn

Where have all the theologians gone? Like the foxes they are, into their holes for fear?
No, there just aren't any!
Or they are dumb, blind and lame.

 

[bbyrd009]

To the OP....I think we abandoned Jesus. To the quote above...that Aramaic crowds are always pushing their Peshitta. They go too far in their claims.

People who know Hebrew realize that Eli Eli lamah sabachthani...is indeed Hebrew. If it was Aramaic it would begin as " alahi, alahi, lemanah..."

What Jesus said on the cross was NOT Psalm 22:1...but a hybrid of that verse with a reference in Gen. 22...with the Hebrew word for "thicket".
In the Mss the word is "sevach" (thicket) In verb form (to entangle) it is sabach....making Jesus' statement "My God My God why have you entangled Me?"

For those who wish to remark on things that cannot be just coincidence...Jesus wore a crown of thorns as if He was the ram caught in the thicket. This goes to confirm His reference.

It takes a divine touch to wrap up 2 prophecies in one statement...and one event.

People are free to accept this or reject it.... like any other of the deeper truths hidden in the bible.

You can verify the Hebrew verb "entangle" (sabach) using a modern Hebrew dictionary...which I have.

nice imo Epi, Abarim gets there too, with some flourishes even, might be in "Hedge" or "thorn," forget which