1 Corinthians 2 is so abused

[VictoryinJesus]

I never told anybody I could “feel the HS in their post”. You might want to look at that one again. The rest of this is you creating a narrative that makes you happy. Whatever. The truth of the word can’t change people dug in that deep.

Went back to look and you are right. It was someone different and not you. I’m sorry. I read it and thought it seemed like a different person but somehow associated it with your screen name. It confused me because it didn’t seem like anything you would say.

One reason I keep going back and forth with you is because I have to admit I’m wondering if you have valid points that maybe I need to consider. Not denying the word is powerful so I’m considering does he have a point. Not denying that when the day gets unbearable it is hearing God’s word that gives strength. Only questioning how even in the OT God told them to go get them a new heart and a new spirit. It wasn’t possible for man to do what only God could do. But you are saying now it is possible for man by reading his bible when their reading the OT could not give them Life. Only God could. Yes, I only go on with you because you may be right in some ways. But not once have I read you credit the miraculous to God’s power even the ability of To love another. Instead it is us. Unless I’ve misunderstood your post.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

This is good to a point, but does not include "all truth" via the Holy Spirit promised as by Christ. The common argument to this is that "all truth" was limited to and given only to the apostles, and that it is "all" now written in the bible. Except that what is written in the New Testament does not give answers to "all truth."

Thus, the "all is written in the Bible" explanation is grossly in error. What is missing, is not an explanation of how to attain "all truth" through what is written...but rather, how to attain "all truth" through the means described in the written word via the Holy Spirit alone. This transition and explanation began when Jesus Himself (the Word) departed from the written word to say, "My words are spirit", followed by His promise - not to send more written words - but to send "another" [Helper] other than the written word.

This transition is literally what was to occur when Jesus said, "follow Me." In other words, He was not saying, "Follow me as a man follows a man, but follow Me as I go to our Father in heaven, whom "is spirit."

But like Israel wanting to return to Egypt rather than entering the promised land, for the most part men have not followed Jesus in the way He went, but have returned to the Egypt of the written word and the former things of religious men. And this they did, even after being counseled by Paul to "leave behind the elementary principles of Christ."

False...only the Apostles were guided into all truth.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

You will wear yourself out long before he will.

Calvinists and Ceasationists are always "on a mission" ...don't waste you breath.
They are rooted in believing what they do.

But you call...but opt out if you find yourself getting frustrated.

Bless you...Helen

Yes those pesky Calvinists, always sticking to what the bible actually says, instead of what we feel it should say.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

On the contrary, Jesus said this:
John 14[23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

John 16[13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
.
The only way to have the mind of Christ, is to be born again of His Holy Spirit. Which is what the two verse I quoted reveal.

Wrong...you missed it completely.

 

[CNKW3]

Went back to look and you are right. It was someone different and not you. I’m sorry. I read it and thought it seemed like a different person but somehow associated it with your screen name. It confused me because it didn’t seem like anything you would say.

One reason I keep going back and forth with you is because I have to admit I’m wondering if you have valid points that maybe I need to consider. Not denying the word is powerful so I’m considering does he have a point. Not denying that when the day gets unbearable it is hearing God’s word that gives strength. Only questioning how even in the OT God told them to go get them a new heart and a new spirit. It wasn’t possible for man to do what only God could do. But you are saying now it is possible for man by reading his bible when their reading the OT could not give them Life. Only God could. Yes, I only go on with you because you may be right in some ways. But not once have I read you credit the miraculous to God’s power even the ability of To love another. Instead it is us. Unless I’ve misunderstood your post.

I appreciate our discussion.
I think you would agree that God, in the Old Testament worked through the nation of Israel and not the gentile nations. This doesn’t mean he didn’t care about them it was just a part of the plan to bring Christ into the world. So, how did Nineveh repent? Jesus, in Mt said they repented at the preaching of Jonah. The HS didn’t work directly through those in Nineveh. The book of Ephesians said they had no hope and were without God in the world. How can someone without God repent?
The word of God was brought to them. They believed and repented. God sent prophet after prophet to get Israel to repent. He did not send a direct operation of the Spirit. The Spirit directly worked through the messenger. The man that you seem to think is incapable. They preached and they preached even when they knew there message would be rejected. Read Isa 6:8-11
It is the word of God that has ALWAYS had the power. When the rich man in Lk 16 told Abraham to send someone back to his family to warn them; how did Abraham respond? He said....they have Moses and the prophets (meaning they have the word of God) if they won’t hear them then they won’t believe even if one is raised from the dead.
Where did Abraham say the power was? In the miraculous working of the Spirit or the words written in a book by inspired men of God?

 

[101G]

The promise to send the comforter or helper was made only to the apostles. That promise was fulfilled.

we must disagree with that assessment. scripture, Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:39 "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call".

question, "is the Lord calling people unto himself today?" yes so the Holy Ghost is for us even today.

PICJAG.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

It is the word of God that has ALWAYS had the power. When the rich man in Lk 16 told Abraham to send someone back to his family to warn them; how did Abraham respond? He said....they have Moses and the prophets (meaning they have the word of God) if they won’t hear them then they won’t believe even if one is raised from the dead.

The rich man asked for Lazarus specifically to be sent: Lazarus is a given name and surname. It is derived from the Hebrew אלעזר, Elʿāzār (Eleazar) meaning "God has helped".


Mark 10:21-27
[21] Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. [22] And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions. [23] And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! [24] And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God! [25] It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. [26] And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved? [27] And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

Jesus loved him is vital (IMO).

 

[CNKW3]

we must disagree with that assessment. scripture, Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:39 "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call".

question, "is the Lord calling people unto himself today?" yes so the Holy Ghost is for us even today.

PICJAG.

Peter said....and ye shall receive THE GIFT OF the HS. He did not say that they would receive the HS. The gift of the HS could be a number of things.

 

[101G]

Peter said....and ye shall receive THE GIFT OF the HS. He did not say that they would receive the HS. The gift of the HS could be a number of things.

first thanks for the reply, second the Gift is him

PICJAG.

 

[CNKW3]

The rich man asked for Lazarus specifically to be sent: Lazarus is a given name and surname. It is derived from the Hebrew אלעזר, Elʿāzār (Eleazar) meaning "God has helped".


Mark 10:21-27
[21] Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. [22] And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions. [23] And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! [24] And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God! [25] It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. [26] And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved? [27] And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

Jesus loved him is vital (IMO).

I’m not quite sure what this all means. We all know God is love. But the Bible also says that God is a consuming fire. Do we not want to consider that side of God as well? Or is it just always love.

 

[CNKW3]

first thanks for the reply, second the Gift is him

PICJAG.

There is no way you can come to that conclusion by just reading those 2 verses. It’s not in there. I’ll prove it. In acts 8 we see the Samaritans believed and were baptized just like those in acts 2 but they did not receive the Spirit...8:16
Either Peter was lying or it means something else.

 

[101G]

I’m not quite sure what this all means. We all know God is love. But the Bible also says that God is a consuming fire. Do we not want to consider that side of God as well? Or is it just always love.

not saying any is right or wrong, but riches is not it, but LOVE, and the name which the jews knew, because as VJ said, stem from Abraham and his servan of Damascus. Genesis 15:2 "And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house [is] this Eliezer of Damascus?
Genesis 15:3 "And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir".

the Jews knew the power of inheritance, but God is of LOVE.

PICJAG

 

[Davy]

Peter said....and ye shall receive THE GIFT OF the HS. He did not say that they would receive the HS. The gift of the HS could be a number of things.

Well, yeah... the gift of The Holy Spirit involves the gifts Paul taught in 1 Cor.12. He does not usually give every believer all of those, nor the same gifts. I believe all gifts of the Holy Spirit manifested through Christ's disciples who first were to spread The Gospel.

 

[101G]

in acts 2 but they did not receive the Spirit...8:16

Acts 2:1 "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Acts 2:2 "And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Acts 2:3 "And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

it was the Spirit in them who is the Gift.

I'm going to be out for a while, but will pick this back up whe I return.

PICJAG.

 

[Taken]

This is funny.

Ok, so you are amused.

I’ve said two or three different things and everyone of them you say...”that’s not e..didn’t say that”.

Correct...you said.
If you want to address what I said, then QUOTE my words, instead of addressing your disagreement with what You are saying.

[/QUOTE] Then why don’t you spell it out so someone as slow as me can know. [/QUOTE]

I do not disagree with Scripture.
I have disagreed with some things you say the scripture means.

Does the Spirit work directly through you or in some other Way?

Per me specific...
The Holy Spirit is IN me.
The Holy Spirit is WITH me.
I am IN my own QUICKENED spirit, WITH the HS.
My SOUL is Restored.
My Body is Crucified.
Christ lives IN me.
I am prepared to be resurrected and REDEEMED by the Lord, on the Day He chooses.
I am prepared to receive Gods Understanding of His Word and DO Works According to His Understanding.
Works I accomplish THAT ARE acceptable to God; result in Glorifying His Great Name.
Works I do that Do Not Glorify God, Shall be burned.
I am Converted IN Christ.
I am IN STANDING with Thee Lord God Almighty.

And I do not Believe WHAT Applies to me...
Also applies to Every General...
...you, they, them, he, she, etc. mentioned in Scripture.

Anyone coming TO the Lord is one Thing.
Staying and Vowing a heartfelt Confession is quite Another Thing.

The Holy Spirit BEGINS giving MEASURES OF FAITH to a man whose own effort is to Hear the Word.

FAITH (from God)Increases "IF" the man Continues"

FAITH (from God) ceases "IF" the man DIS-continues.

The Big Picture/ Goal /Reward is for a man to Continue Following, receiving FAITH, making a Vow of Commitment......
And receiving the Gift (from God) OF:
FAITH........FLLNESS.
That IS FOREVER KEPT unto the man...
BY the Indwelling POWER of God.

So, can (obscure he, she, them, they, etc)
receive FAITH, and fall AWAY? Yes.

However a specific person, who has heartfully committed and received Faith....FULLNeSS, can never Fall Away.

When Paul or anyone says...."YOU"...blah, blah, blah....and the specific "YOU" is not identified....While what Paul is saying is true....it does not men it APPLIES to "EVERYONE".

What Applies to a JEW, may not Apply to a Converted Gentile. And what Applies a Converted Gentile may not Apply to a non-Converted Gentile.

No I do not Believe READING Scriptures, is that which GIVES man Gods Understanding.
I believe thee Lord God Himself Gives CERTAIN men His Understanding OF HIS own Word.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[CNKW3]

Well, yeah... the gift of The Holy Spirit involves the gifts Paul taught in 1 Cor.12. He does not usually give every believer all of those, nor the same gifts. I believe all gifts of the Holy Spirit manifested through Christ's disciples who first were to spread The Gospel.

Those in Corinth received those gifts through the laying on of an apostles hands. They did not get them directly as the apostles did on Pentecost. And since there are no more living apostles we don’t receive any of them.

 

[Davy]

Those in Corinth received those gifts through the laying on of an apostles hands. They did not get them directly as the apostles did on Pentecost. And since there are no more living apostles we don’t receive any of them.

Of course what you're saying, that we no longer receive The Holy Spirit, is a terrible falsehood.

There is not one single believer on Christ Jesus that has been baptized that can even understand God's Holy Writ without the help of The Holy Spirit.

What you're teaching is so far off from what God's Word reveals that it makes me doubt your sincerity.

John 14:26
26 But the Comforter, Which is the Holy Ghost, Whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
KJV

1 John 2:27
27 But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.
KJV


1 Cor 2:10-16
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that He may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
KJV

 

[CNKW3]

No I do not Believe READING Scriptures, is that which GIVES man Gods Understanding.
I believe thee Lord God Himself Gives CERTAIN men His Understanding OF HIS own Word.

Glory to God,
Taken

All of that to get to this.
I’ve been right all along.
You state above that (let me use your words as you say) “God himself gives (this would be direct operation apart from the word since you already said reading scripture won’t do it) certain (Calvinist?) men his understanding of his own word”.
You believe in the direct operation of the Spirit a part from the word. This is what I have been saying all along but you just wanted to be difficult I guess.

 

[CNKW3]

Of course what you're saying, that we no longer receive The Holy Spirit, is a terrible falsehood.

There is not one single believer on Christ Jesus that has been baptized that can even understand God's Holy Writ without the help of The Holy Spirit.

the HS has never worked on me directly, but I think I can show a reasonable amount of biblical understanding.

What you're teaching is so far off from what God's Word reveals that it makes me doubt your sincerity.

John 14:26
26 But the Comforter, Which is the Holy Ghost, Whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
KJV

Jn 14 was not spoken directly to you. You do not have miraculous remembrance and you know it.

1 John 2:27
27 But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.
KJV

Again, writing to brethren in 1st century that had the miraculous gifts of the HS. That is the anointing that they had. You don’t have it. Our anointing today comes through our study of the word.
Do you realize what you are telling everybody? Hey...you don’t have to read and study just wait on the Spirit to give you understanding. First, this is the reason for such poor bible knowledge. People have been told you can’t understand it. Also, this is why nobody knows what they are talking about when it comes to the Bible.

1 Cor 2:10-16
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that He may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
KJV

1 Cor 2 is soooo abused.

 

[CoreIssue]

The spiritual man is one more dominated by their born-again new nature.

Natural man is one dominated by the old flesh nature.

Those who were not born again are all old nature.