Russia, Iran, Sudan, & Libya ...

[Davy]

Some people think that there is only one battle, but Daniel 11:40-44 along with Rev. 13 & Rev. 17 depict TWO battles, -- one which brings the U.N. into the center stage; and the second one which destroys a significant portion of humanity at the Second Coming.​

Dan 11:45
45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
KJV

That verse part in bold, which is after those battles you speak of in the previous verses, reveals his final state in power in Jerusalem before his destruction. And how he comes to an end isn't described there. That in bold is about his setting himself up in Jerusalem in place of God, and is thus great tribulation timing. These Dan.11 events follow the events of Antiochus IV in history, back in 165 B.C. He died of an illness, not by any man's hand. Those events only serve as a TYPE for the final Antichrist to come which our Lord Jesus forewarned of.

I have no clue why when GOD uses men as his instruments, -- IT WASN'T GOD. When the Balfour Declaration was enacted; when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor; when Midway was attacked; when the Allies stormed the beaches of Normandy; when the U.S. dropped two atomic bombs; when Israel Became a State; when Israel fought a Six-Day-War; there were SO MANY IMPOSSIBILITIES that we MUST recognize that GOD was taking an ACTIVE role.​

Yes, we should expect unforeseen circumstances to prevail during battles in which GOD's chosen are victorious in those endeavors. And it WILL be because of GOD's divine interventions in the efforts of men.​

You are inserting your OWN thinking into the Scripture which does not say that.

Ezek 39:6-7
6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

7 So will I make My holy name known in the midst of My people Israel; and I will not let them pollute My holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.
KJV

Ezek 39:21
21 And I will set My glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see My judgment that I have executed, and My hand that I have laid upon them.
KJV

Ezek 39:22
22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.
KJV

Ezek 39:29
29 Neither will I hide My face any more from them: for I have poured out My spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
KJV

It's that event on the final day of this present world, that will change all into the world to come when God will no longer be hidden. Even the atheist will then know Who the True GOD is. And God is going to pour out His consuming fire upon those heathen nations to show them Who The GOD is. This is different than God simply giving Israel victory in battle. This battle in Ezekiel 39 is going to be between GOD Himself and His enemies on earth, and they will know it will be by His hand, and not by ours. If God gave us to defeat the enemy by our hand, then His enemies would not think their defeat was from Him, but only by us. This coming defeat of the armies out of the northern country is going to be by Him, and they will know it.

This is pure silliness, idle speculation, blind guessing, overactive imagination, -- pick any one or more! :)​

It is not pur silliness, nor idle speculation...

Russian nuclear bombers fly near Alaska, U.S. jets follow


Just because the news sources you use haven't reported things like the above doesn't mean they aren't happening. Russia is a threat on Alaska's borders.

 

[Bobby Jo]

@Davy said:
... These Dan.11 events follow the events of Antiochus IV in history, back in 165 B.C. ... [/quote]​

Perhaps you are willing to defy the angel's specific instructions in Daniel 12:4 & 9, but you do so at your own peril. And in the process, you and your commentators Distort History, Defy Scripture, and Contradict GOD's Word. -- But don't worry, I'm quite certain that HE doesn't mind ...

Bobby Jo said:
Yes, we should expect unforeseen circumstances to prevail during battles in which GOD's chosen are victorious in those endeavors. And it WILL be because of GOD's divine interventions in the efforts of men.
@Davy said:
You are inserting your OWN thinking into the Scripture which does not say that.​

Perhaps you are not familiar with:

Deuteronomy 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.​

Thus what Scripture presents, HISTORY defends! :)

@Davy said:
This battle in Ezekiel 39 is going to be between GOD Himself and His enemies on earth, ...​

Yeah, you're right. There will only be the attackers, and NO DEFENDERS, because they'll be off on another mountain top seated on a zero-gravity-reclining chair, sipping lemonade, and watching the events unfold. GOD built the ARK, and Noah and his sons simply watched. The prophets watched a lot of TV, and Jesus slept comfortably most of his ministry -- BECAUSE GOD TOOK CARE OF EVERYTHING.

Luke 22:35 And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no purse or bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” 36 He said to them, “But now, let him who has a purse take it, and likewise a bag. And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one.​

The GOOD NEWS is that you don't have to do ANYTHING. It will ALL be taken care of by GOD. -- Just sit back and relax.


Good Luck,
Bobby Jo

 

[Davy]

​

Perhaps you are willing to defy the angel's specific instructions in Daniel 12:4 & 9, but you do so at your own peril. And in the process, you and your commentators Distort History, Defy Scripture, and Contradict GOD's Word. -- But don't worry, I'm quite certain that HE doesn't mind ...

Maybe you ought to just quit making up stuff I didn't do, like defying angel's instructions and such.

It is YOUR theory that I am defying, simply because I'm following Scripture. You are not, and the reason is because you're focusing in one little area of the Book of Daniel while forgetting the rest of it, and other Books in God's Word. It's like you have these horse blinders on when you study a passage, which makes you forget other Scripture that gives more info.

 

[Bobby Jo]

Maybe you ought to just quit making up stuff I didn't do, like defying angel's instructions and such. ...

Dan. 12
4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end. ​

Your assertions defy SCRIPTURE, but I'm quite confident that Jesus would never say to YOU: "Depart from me, I knew you not."


Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

... It's like you have these horse blinders on when you study a passage, which makes you forget other Scripture that gives more info.

So now let's take care of "Davy" and his ill advised assertion!

You ascribe that Chapter 11 depicts Antiochus Epiphanes, so let's see whether we can find what you claim!

Daniel 11:2 “And now I will show you the truth. Behold, three more kings shall arise in Persia; and a fourth shall be far richer than all of them; and when he has become strong through his riches, he shall stir up all against the kingdom of Greece.​

First we must understand that the Medo/Persian historical records are complete. They show the following sequence of Rulers for that Empire:

World History[1] [2]

BC
539 - 530 Cyrus the Great
530 - 522 Cambyses
522 - 486 Darius I (Hystaspes)
486 - 465 Xerxes
465 - 423 Artaxerxes I
423 Xerxes II - few weeks
423 Sogdianus - six months
423 - 404 Darius II
404 - 359 Artaxerxes II
359 - 338 Artaxerxes III (Ochus)
338 Arses
338 - 330 Darius III (Codomanus)


[1] Huot, Jean-Louis, Persia I - From the Origins to the Achaemenids, World Publishing Co., NY, 1965-67, pp. 12, 153-156
[2] Durant, Will, “Story of Civilization: Part I,” Simon and Schuster, NY, 1954, pp 353-354, 381-382​

So exactly who are the "three more ... and a fourth" which "shall stir up all against the kingdom of Greece"?



Bobby Jo

 

[Davy]

Dan. 12
4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end. ​

Your assertions defy SCRIPTURE, but I'm quite confident that Jesus would never say to YOU: "Depart from me, I knew you not."


Bobby Jo

What I said defies nothing but you.

And that because you are not staying in all of God's Word like you claim. You instead strain at a gnat in Daniel 11, and have created your own timelines of kingdoms that do not agree with Revelation.

Rev 13:4-8
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
KJV

When that above happens, it will be that final verse of Daniel 11. It will be when the final Antichrist will have arrived on the scene and takes over ALL nations and armies on the earth. That is why it will then be asked, "Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?"

This is why Apostle Paul in 1 Thess.5 showed for the very end, it will be a time of peace and safety just prior to the "day of the Lord" destruction from The Almighty.

 

[Davy]

So now let's take care of "Davy" and his ill advised assertion!

You ascribe that Chapter 11 depicts Antiochus Epiphanes, so let's see whether we can find what you claim!

Daniel 11:2 “And now I will show you the truth. Behold, three more kings shall arise in Persia; and a fourth shall be far richer than all of them; and when he has become strong through his riches, he shall stir up all against the kingdom of Greece.​

First we must understand that the Medo/Persian historical records are complete. They show the following sequence of Rulers for that Empire:

World History[1] [2]

BC
539 - 530 Cyrus the Great
530 - 522 Cambyses
522 - 486 Darius I (Hystaspes)
486 - 465 Xerxes
465 - 423 Artaxerxes I
423 Xerxes II - few weeks
423 Sogdianus - six months
423 - 404 Darius II
404 - 359 Artaxerxes II
359 - 338 Artaxerxes III (Ochus)
338 Arses
338 - 330 Darius III (Codomanus)


[1] Huot, Jean-Louis, Persia I - From the Origins to the Achaemenids, World Publishing Co., NY, 1965-67, pp. 12, 153-156
[2] Durant, Will, “Story of Civilization: Part I,” Simon and Schuster, NY, 1954, pp 353-354, 381-382​

So exactly who are the "three more ... and a fourth" which "shall stir up all against the kingdom of Greece"?


Bobby Jo

The relation of Dan.11 to Antiochus Epiphanes, and the workings of the final Antichrist for the end of this world, aligns with the "vile person" in Daniel 11. The "king of the south" (Philometor) was defeated before the time of Antiochus' taking Jerusalem and placing of the abomination in the temple in Jerusalem (1 Macc. 1:19-20).

1 Maccabees 1
41 Moreover king Antiochus wrote to his whole kingdom, that all should be one people,
42 And every one should leave his laws: so all the heathen agreed according to the commandment of the king.
43 Yea, many also of the Israelites consented to his religion, and sacrificed unto idols, and profaned the sabbath.
44 For the king had sent letters by messengers unto Jerusalem and the cities of Juda that they should follow the strange laws of the land,
45 And forbid burnt offerings, and sacrifice, and drink offerings, in the temple; and that they should profane the sabbaths and festival days:
46 And pollute the sanctuary and holy people:
47 Set up altars, and groves, and chapels of idols, and sacrifice swine's flesh, and unclean beasts:
48 That they should also leave their children uncircumcised, and make their souls abominable with all manner of uncleanness and profanation:
49 To the end they might forget the law, and change all the ordinances.
50 And whosoever would not do according to the commandment of the king, he said, he should die.
51 In the selfsame manner wrote he to his whole kingdom, and appointed overseers over all the people, commanding the cities of Juda to sacrifice, city by city.
52 Then many of the people were gathered unto them, to wit every one that forsook the law; and so they committed evils in the land;
53 And drove the Israelites into secret places, even wheresoever they could flee for succour.
54 Now the fifteenth day of the month Casleu, in the hundred forty and fifth year, they set up the abomination of desolation upon the altar, and builded idol altars throughout the cities of Juda on every side;
55 And burnt incense at the doors of their houses, and in the streets.
56 And when they had rent in pieces the books of the law which they found, they burnt them with fire.
57 And whosoever was found with any the book of the testament, or if any committed to the law, the king's commandment was, that they should put him to death.
58 Thus did they by their authority unto the Israelites every month, to as many as were found in the cities.
59 Now the five and twentieth day of the month they did sacrifice upon the idol altar, which was upon the altar of God.

 

[Bobby Jo]

Bobby Jo said:​

So exactly who are the "three more ... and a fourth" which "shall stir up all against the kingdom of Greece"?

World History[1] [2]
BC
539 - 530 Cyrus the Great
530 - 522 Cambyses
522 - 486 Darius I (Hystaspes)
486 - 465 Xerxes
465 - 423 Artaxerxes I
423 Xerxes II - few weeks
423 Sogdianus - six months
423 - 404 Darius II
404 - 359 Artaxerxes II
359 - 338 Artaxerxes III (Ochus)
338 Arses
338 - 330 Darius III (Codomanus)


[1] Huot, Jean-Louis, Persia I - From the Origins to the Achaemenids, World Publishing Co., NY, 1965-67, pp. 12, 153-156
[2] Durant, Will, “Story of Civilization: Part I,” Simon and Schuster, NY, 1954, pp 353-354, 381-382​

@Davy said: ... ​

I see you chose to jump to a premise, rather than arrive at a premise. And that's because you CAN'T ARRIVE TO YOUR PREMISE.

That's what happens with False doctrines! :)
Bobby Jo

 

[Davy]

Bobby Jo said:​

So exactly who are the "three more ... and a fourth" which "shall stir up all against the kingdom of Greece"?

World History[1] [2]
BC
539 - 530 Cyrus the Great
530 - 522 Cambyses
522 - 486 Darius I (Hystaspes)
486 - 465 Xerxes
465 - 423 Artaxerxes I
423 Xerxes II - few weeks
423 Sogdianus - six months
423 - 404 Darius II
404 - 359 Artaxerxes II
359 - 338 Artaxerxes III (Ochus)
338 Arses
338 - 330 Darius III (Codomanus)


[1] Huot, Jean-Louis, Persia I - From the Origins to the Achaemenids, World Publishing Co., NY, 1965-67, pp. 12, 153-156
[2] Durant, Will, “Story of Civilization: Part I,” Simon and Schuster, NY, 1954, pp 353-354, 381-382​

@Davy said: ... ​

I see you chose to jump to a premise, rather than arrive at a premise. And that's because you CAN'T ARRIVE TO YOUR PREMISE.

That's what happens with False doctrines! :)
Bobby Jo

The history you are trying to implant into Daniel 11 is not the history of Antiochus Epiphanes who to date served as the closest fulfillment of the "vile person" in Daniel 11. The "vile person" example is the role to watch for the end with the coming Antichrist in our near future, sitting in a temple in Jerusalem proclaiming himself as God, like Apostle Paul taught in 2 Thess.2.

 

[Bobby Jo]

The history you are trying to implant into Daniel 11 ...

... starts at 11:2. If you want to get to 11:21 you have to go through verses 2 through 20, and your FALSE doctrine can't even get through verse 2, much less the additional 18 verses:

So exactly who are the "three more ... and a fourth" which "shall stir up all against the kingdom of Greece"?

World History[1] [2]
BC
539 - 530 Cyrus the Great
530 - 522 Cambyses
522 - 486 Darius I (Hystaspes)
486 - 465 Xerxes
465 - 423 Artaxerxes I
423 Xerxes II - few weeks
423 Sogdianus - six months
423 - 404 Darius II
404 - 359 Artaxerxes II
359 - 338 Artaxerxes III (Ochus)
338 Arses
338 - 330 Darius III (Codomanus)​

[1] Huot, Jean-Louis, Persia I - From the Origins to the Achaemenids, World Publishing Co., NY, 1965-67, pp. 12, 153-156
[2] Durant, Will, “Story of Civilization: Part I,” Simon and Schuster, NY, 1954, pp 353-354, 381-382​

History is simple,
Bobby Jo

 

[Davy]

... starts at 11:2. If you want to get to 11:21 you have to go through verses 2 through 20, and your FALSE doctrine can't even get through verse 2, much less the additional 18 verses:

So exactly who are the "three more ... and a fourth" which "shall stir up all against the kingdom of Greece"?

World History[1] [2]
BC
539 - 530 Cyrus the Great
530 - 522 Cambyses
522 - 486 Darius I (Hystaspes)
486 - 465 Xerxes
465 - 423 Artaxerxes I
423 Xerxes II - few weeks
423 Sogdianus - six months
423 - 404 Darius II
404 - 359 Artaxerxes II
359 - 338 Artaxerxes III (Ochus)
338 Arses
338 - 330 Darius III (Codomanus)​

[1] Huot, Jean-Louis, Persia I - From the Origins to the Achaemenids, World Publishing Co., NY, 1965-67, pp. 12, 153-156
[2] Durant, Will, “Story of Civilization: Part I,” Simon and Schuster, NY, 1954, pp 353-354, 381-382​

History is simple,
Bobby Jo

The events about the "vile person" in Daniel 11 starts at Daniel 11:21, not Dan.11:2. That's why your feigned history is an implant attempt.

 

[Bobby Jo]

The events about the "vile person" in Daniel 11 starts at Daniel 11:21 ...

If you want to get to 11:21 you have to go through verses 2 through 20, and your FALSE doctrine can't even get through verse 2, much less the additional 18 verses:​

So exactly who are the "three more ... and a fourth" which "shall stir up all against the kingdom of Greece"?

World History[1] [2]
BC
539 - 530 Cyrus the Great
530 - 522 Cambyses
522 - 486 Darius I (Hystaspes)
486 - 465 Xerxes
465 - 423 Artaxerxes I
423 Xerxes II - few weeks
423 Sogdianus - six months
423 - 404 Darius II
404 - 359 Artaxerxes II
359 - 338 Artaxerxes III (Ochus)
338 Arses
338 - 330 Darius III (Codomanus)​

[1] Huot, Jean-Louis, Persia I - From the Origins to the Achaemenids, World Publishing Co., NY, 1965-67, pp. 12, 153-156
[2] Durant, Will, “Story of Civilization: Part I,” Simon and Schuster, NY, 1954, pp 353-354, 381-382​

Your doctrine forces you to be intellectually dishonest, but you're not alone. There are multitudes of people who claim "Christianity" but do not live up to it's requirements. :)

Bobby Jo

 

[Davy]

If you want to get to 11:21 you have to go through verses 2 through 20, and your FALSE doctrine can't even get through verse 2, much less the additional 18 verses:​

So exactly who are the "three more ... and a fourth" which "shall stir up all against the kingdom of Greece"?

World History[1] [2]
BC
539 - 530 Cyrus the Great
530 - 522 Cambyses
522 - 486 Darius I (Hystaspes)
486 - 465 Xerxes
465 - 423 Artaxerxes I
423 Xerxes II - few weeks
423 Sogdianus - six months
423 - 404 Darius II
404 - 359 Artaxerxes II
359 - 338 Artaxerxes III (Ochus)
338 Arses
338 - 330 Darius III (Codomanus)​

[1] Huot, Jean-Louis, Persia I - From the Origins to the Achaemenids, World Publishing Co., NY, 1965-67, pp. 12, 153-156
[2] Durant, Will, “Story of Civilization: Part I,” Simon and Schuster, NY, 1954, pp 353-354, 381-382​

Your doctrine forces you to be intellectually dishonest, but you're not alone. There are multitudes of people who claim "Christianity" but do not live up to it's requirements. :)

Bobby Jo

The "vile person" is what fits as a TYPE for the final Antichrist to come at the end of this world. What you are interjecting was history before Antiochus conquering Jerusalem, and does not fit even what the historical Antiochus did.

 

[Bobby Jo]

The "vile person" is what fits as a TYPE for the final Antichrist to come at the end of this world. What you are interjecting was history before Antiochus conquering Jerusalem, and does not fit even what the historical Antiochus did.

It's ok if you can't arrive to 11:21. A LOT of people use the Bible as though it were a buffet line, picking and choosing which items they want and disregarding the rest. And where most people like keeping things in CONTEXT, you're not alone when you take things OUT OF CONTEXT. Dishonest people do it all the time. -- Just watch CNN for a few minutes, and I'm sure you'll feel better about your own intellectual dishonesty.


Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

So now in the NEWS we see hard evidence of no t only an Iranian gun boat pulled alongside an oil tanker, -- but they're pulling off a magnetic mine that failed to detonate. How funny is THAT?!?

But where are the Forum self professed "prophecy experts"? We're running head-long toward Ezekie 38 & 39, and Dan. 11:40-44, but the "experts" are oblivious? I thought THEY were the EXPERTS!

WHERE ARE THEY?!?
Bobby Jo

 

[Enoch111]

WHERE ARE THEY?!?

They are waiting to get some advice from the expert who specializes in insulting and derogatory remarks (BJ).

 

[Bobby Jo]

They are waiting to get some advice from the expert who specializes in insulting and derogatory remarks (BJ).

Rather than participation we get prevarication, but it won't change the world's march toward self-annihilation or some Poster's march toward self delusion. :)


To All,

A regional war in the Middle East won't be pretty. Back in August of 1990 the U.S. started sending men and material to Saudi Arabia in preparation for the extrication of Iraq from Kuwait. It took us SIX MONTHS to sufficiently prepare for a 100 hour war.

Today we have some limited materials in Saudi Arabia and vicinities for combat, but not nearly enough for a war with Iran, and much less when Russia joins in. Our military could suffer a hasty retreat or Dunkirk type of evacuation. It won't be pretty for us, and China will have to step forward to clean up the mess.

This won't bode well for a President that is expected to win re-election.


Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

Not quite yet. A strike was almost launched, but it appears we still need the provocateur (?Iran?/?Russia?) to attack an "unwalled" victim. Certainly there are three good candidates -- Ukraine, Syria, & Iraq; and maybe a fourth -- Kuwait.

I expect things to transpire his summer, and it won't turn out well for the U.S. and her allies.
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

Daniel 11:41 He [Russia] shall come into the glorious land. And tens of thousands shall fall, but these shall be delivered out of his hand: Edom and Moab and the main part of the Ammonites. 42 He shall stretch out his hand against the countries, and the land of Egypt shall not escape. 43 He shall become ruler of the treasures of gold and of silver, and all the precious things of Egypt; and the Libyans and the Ethiopians [Sudanese] shall follow in his train.​

The modern history list of Iran's attacks against U.S. Troops and interests would span four decades take pages to document. But is there any Scripturally based evidence of Iran's participation? Daniel 11 didn't cite Iran (Persia), but how about Ezekiel?

Ezekiel 38 3 ... Behold, I am against you, O Gog [Russia], chief prince of Meshech and Tubal; 4 and I will turn you about, and put hooks into your jaws, and I will bring you forth, and all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed in full armor, a great company, all of them with buckler and shield, wielding swords; 5 Persia [Iran], Cush, and Put are with them, all of them with shield and helmet; 6 Gomer and all his hordes; Beth-togar′mah from the uttermost parts of the north with all his hordes—many peoples are with you.​

There's "Persia"/Iran.

So when you see events culminating in the Middle East, always look for Russia and her allies to be fulminating trouble which will bring about a regional war which will escalate to include the use of tactical nuclear weapons. Expect the decimation of the Soviet block, which the U.N. will "heal":

Rev. 13:3 One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and the whole earth followed the beast with wonder.​

Bobby Jo

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Rather than participation we get prevarication, but it won't change the world's march toward self-annihilation or some Poster's march toward self delusion. :)


To All,

A regional war in the Middle East won't be pretty. Back in August of 1990 the U.S. started sending men and material to Saudi Arabia in preparation for the extrication of Iraq from Kuwait. It took us SIX MONTHS to sufficiently prepare for a 100 hour war.

Today we have some limited materials in Saudi Arabia and vicinities for combat, but not nearly enough for a war with Iran, and much less when Russia joins in. Our military could suffer a hasty retreat or Dunkirk type of evacuation. It won't be pretty for us, and China will have to step forward to clean up the mess.

This won't bode well for a President that is expected to win re-election.


Bobby Jo

USA could not afford such a war now, it's bankrupt as it can't even service the debt it has squandered.

That Traitor Obama gave how much cash to Iran to help destroy the USA. how did he get away with that :. it's a joke ! right, no one could be so stupid.

Wake up USA you have been and are being lead down the drain, not to mention half of the Nation want to become communist because they think the world is a fee for all and that they can just sit on their arse and get handed everything like they do now. they are going to be in for a huge shock to find that such equality only comes when all are equal nothings starving in squaller and totally dictated to. no one has a voice under communism because if you try, you will be killed.