The Crucified Life

[stunnedbygrace]

So I guess you could say...I see very vivid extremes. I see outrageous hatred and arrogance and quite often a desire to gain followers to a certain religious ideology and know I'm seeing a wolf, and I see outrageous love, patience, forgiveness, and know I'm seeing a brother.

But as for pleasant and well mannered individuals, I have to be around them for a while before I see that they really don't know God. But I always hope.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I don't know why but I'm very sad right now. I'm going next door to find some chocolate. It has magical properties.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Wow...went next door. By the time I got there, sugar was holding no appeal for me so I got chips, nuts and a Gatorade. 7.25. Card declined because I made a late payment on it early this morning. Not that I didn't have money to pay it, just forgot and was 2 days late.

But they know me there. I'm two shops down from them. So I said I would run and get my other card, but when o got back to shop someone was there to pickup an earlier purchase of a mirror, 2 lamps and a piece of artwork. I went back in to get the last item, and here comes the customer with a bag and says here's your stuff. I say, what stuff? He says, it looks like food? Some guy told me to give it to you.

I asked where he was, but he was gone. So we get last piece in his car, I come back in and begin searching in back for a large mirror to replace the one that sold. When I saw my reflection in it, I realized the man literally thought I was one of the homeless who live in the woods behind the shopping center. Covered head to toe in what looks like black soot from a piece I power sanded, a brown aging glaze all over my hands, in my ripped paint jeans and flip flops. Oh hahaha!!

 

[Nancy]

Yes, its better to embrace truth and walk in it than be deceived. Better to embrace and walk in truth, even if it makes you look bad. Walking in the truth doesn't mean being instantly perfect. It just means admitting the truth.

Wow...went next door. By the time I got there, sugar was holding no appeal for me so I got chips, nuts and a Gatorade. 7.25. Card declined because I made a late payment on it early this morning. Not that I didn't have money to pay it, just forgot and was 2 days late.

But they know me there. I'm two shops down from them. So I said I would run and get my other card, but when o got back to shop someone was there to pickup an earlier purchase of a mirror, 2 lamps and a piece of artwork. I went back in to get the last item, and here comes the customer with a bag and says here's your stuff. I say, what stuff? He says, it looks like food? Some guy told me to give it to you.

I asked where he was, but he was gone. So we get last piece in his car, I come back in and begin searching in back for a large mirror to replace the one that sold. When I saw my reflection in it, I realized the man literally thought I was one of the homeless who live in the woods behind the shopping center. Covered head to toe in what looks like black soot from a piece I power sanded, a brown aging glaze all over my hands, in my ripped paint jeans and flip flops. Oh hahaha!!

Well, there ya have it! If you are having a slow day at your store, just cover yourself with soot and sit on a corner with a can and sunglasses!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I came real close to taking my first ever selfie so you guys could see just how awful I looked but pride got in the way!

 

[Nancy]

I came real close to taking my first ever selfie so you guys could see just how awful I looked but pride got in the way!

Well, I must say that, it would have been more an act of humility had you taken your pic looking like that! Lol

 

[stunnedbygrace]

There are conditions to God's intervention....besides faith. Those conditions are a pure heart (shalem) and clean hands (tamim). (Ps. 24:3,4) In the OT this did not lead to a sacrificial life nor a resurrection life...since Jesus was not yet glorified and so His gift of grace was not yet available to men.

In the NT we have a new level of life...in perfection (teleos). The pre-requisites for entering into teleos are the exact same but these can be obtained through repentance and faith towards God. IOW we come to God in whatever condition so we can be forgiven and enter into His training....through perfection in Christ.

What is this perfection?

Jesus said that we were to be teleos as God is teleos (Mat. 5:48). Teleos the perfection of a return to God's creation in HIS image. But at a higher level. So then to be perfect as God is perfect means we are back to His original image. We throw off the old man...conformed to the devil and this world...and put on the new man...created in the IMAGE of holiness and righteousness.

This is to be without sin...washed in the blood of Christ...clean and pure....without spot or wrinkle. This was Adam's condition BEFORE the fall.

But we can't return to that previous state...without Christ. In fact, we can only BE teleos as we abide in Him. It is never our permanent condition..because it is not US but Christ. It is HIS life not our own. Left to ourselves we return to the Adamic weakness.

So then we can ALL be tranformed into God's image by putting on Christ in that walk. But only through the cross of Christ.

And we are to present EVERY man teleos in Christ (Col. 1:28) So this seemingly impossible standard is to become the norm of the church that is in His name.

When you say: there are conditions to Gods intervention- a pure heart and clean hands - someone will come along and say: but I CANT make my heart pure, I've tried, but the more I try, the worse I see it is!

I know someone will say that because its what I would have said awhile back, when I was struggling so hard with resentments whenever someone was mean to me.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

They will be stopped from reading the rest of your post, in other words. They will just say, nope, tried it, doesn't work, and they will reject what you say without even hearing the rest.

 

[Episkopos]

When you say: there are conditions to Gods intervention- a pure heart and clean hands - someone will come along and say: but I CANT make my heart pure, I've tried, but the more I try, the worse I see it is!

I know someone will say that because its what I would have said awhile back, when I was struggling so hard with resentments whenever someone was mean to me.

We are learning to be righteous in our own lives. The time IN the Spirit helps us to have the courage and potential to do well when the Spirit is not in control. IOW we begin to act as Jesus even when we are not IN the Spirit. So we become dyed in the wool servants of God and righteousness.

This is about maturity according to purity.

So then our hearts are purified because of His life that previously flowed through us...smoothing the roughness of our previously stony hearts...making us clean and spoiling us for this world. Clean hands means we do all with innocent motives...always for the good of others and not ourselves. To be as a child in motives. The pure heart is our service before God and the clean hands are in service to others.

When we live from a circumcised heart we tend to behave like the OT saints. By faith and trust in God.

It's like taking a cookie and breaking it in half then pushing it back together and putting it back in the jar. It looks like any other cookie...but it isn't because it has been broken.

The longer we are in the Lord...the more we should be conforming to the image of Christ in our lives. The more our hearts should be pure and our hands should be clean. Of course we don't begin that way!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And now I am laughing. Me, who can in no way be tight and concise in my speech, am wanting YOU to do what I can't.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

We are learning to be righteous in our own lives. The time IN the Spirit helps us to have the courage and potential to do well when the Spirit is not in control. IOW we begin to act as Jesus even when we are not IN the Spirit. So we become dyed in the wool servants of God and righteousness.

This is about maturity according to purity.

So then our hearts are purified because of His life that previously flowed through us...smoothing the roughness of our previously stony hearts...making us clean and spoiling us for this world. Clean hands means we do all with innocent motives...always for the good of others and not ourselves. To be as a child in motives.

When we live from a circumcised heart we tend to behave like the OT saints. By faith and trust in God.

It's like taking a cookie and breaking it in half then pushing it back together and putting it back in the jar. It looks like any other cookie...but it isn't because it has been broken.

The longer we are in the Lord...the more we should be conforming to the image of Christ in our lives. The more our hearts should be pure and our hands should be clean. Of course we don't begin that way!

Okay, I'm getting picky here. I think you've skipped some...step? So I'm getting picky for whoever might be there currently.

Those times when we are close to Him don't just turn into: we then begin acting as Him. At first, we just begin to see that we ARENT acting like Him. But when He gives us to see this, we get very hungry for righteousness in our selves, in our heart. We become very hungry and dissatisfied.

But this is a gift and an extreme amount of grace! Where before we couldn't see our true self, we begin to see it now.

There is danger in going the wrong way here for some amount of time. The wrong way is to simply resolve to do better and be better. That's the mistake of the foolish galatians, trying to finish by our strength and resolve what was begun in the Spirit.

The correct response is to experience that hunger and thirst for righteousness when we see what we lack and to say: oh Lord, have mercy on me, please help me!

 

[Episkopos]

Okay, I'm getting picky here. I think you've skipped some...step? So I'm getting picky for whoever might be there currently.

Those times when we are close to Him don't just turn into: we then begin acting as Him. At first, we just begin to see that we ARENT acting like Him. But when He gives us to see this, we get very hungry for righteousness in our selves, in our heart. We become very hungry and dissatisfied.

But this is a gift and an extreme amount of grace! Where before we couldn't see our true self, we begin to see it now.

There is danger in going the wrong way here for some amount of time. The wrong way is to simply resolve to do better and be better. That's the mistake of the foolish galatians, trying to finish by our strength and resolve what was begun in the Spirit.

The correct response is to experience that hunger and thirst for righteousness when we see what we lack and to say: oh Lord, have mercy on me, please help me!

Our effort is always to enter into the close fellowship with God. The righteousness we are learning is quite automatic. We have been changed because we have been with Jesus.

No, not trying to perfect ourselves by laws and techniques. Our righteousness is as an afterglow of His righteousness through us.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I don't exactly think it's automatic...it wasn't for me (but maybe that's because I refused to believe and have the obedience of trust for so long about temporal provision). If you look at the sermon on the mount, it is an...outline of "from glory to glory." It might not be a strict linear outline for everyone, but its pretty close. We might go back and forth in it rather than step one, step two, step three, but it's from glory to glory.

 

[Episkopos]

I don't exactly think it's automatic...it wasn't for me (but maybe that's because I refused to believe and have the obedience of trust for so long about temporal provision). If you look at the sermon on the mount, it is an...outline of "from glory to glory." It might not be a strict linear outline for everyone, but its pretty close. We might go back and forth in it rather than step one, step two, step three, but it's from glory to glory.

How about...it becomes automatic through a lot of practice and trials!

It's like playing a musical instrument. At one point your musical sensibilities become highly tuned...without effort. But behind that seeming ease is a LOT of experience and practice.

 

[brakelite]

How long can we tolerate living sacrificially?

Hi. Only read the first post so far, and this took my attention. We would not last very long at all living sacrificially if that were our focus. However, if our focus were on the Creator of the risen reborn creature, and we feed only that creature, the carnal man buried in the ground would starve to death by default.

 

[brakelite]

Gal. 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

A crucial verse.....with an ambiguity. The translation of this verse implies that WE are to do the crucifying. But that's not how the Greek goes....which says...They that are Christ's the flesh crucified.

The ambiguity is in the lack of a direct link in the wording as to who exactly is doing the crucifying.

Now nobody can crucify themselves...neither physically nor spiritually. That should be obvious.

So the text would be better rendered as " They that are Christ's (have had) the flesh crucified."

In any regard one who is in Christ cannot get there without being crucified to himself. It is by the operation of God. By the Spirit.

Any Greek speakers out there?

I think that like Christ we present ourselves to death and we allow, as in baptism, others to bury us. The work attached to the death of the old man for us is in the presentation, for God in the execution.

 

[Episkopos]

Hi. Only read the first post so far, and this took my attention. We would not last very long at all living sacrificially if that were our focus. However, if our focus were on the Creator of the risen reborn creature, and we feed only that creature, the carnal man buried in the ground would starve to death by default.

But to feed one needs real food...not a purely dogmatic reasoning that has no life in it. We feed on His life (blood).

The dogmatic food I call "dog" food. Not fit for human consumption. Yet so many feed on it. But they feed the inner dog in themselves. A human being needs to feed on an actual fellowship with God.

Then, as you say, living sacrificially becomes easy...or at least a lot easier.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

How about...it becomes automatic through a lot of practice and trials!

It's like playing a musical instrument. At one point your musical sensibilities become highly tuned...without effort. But behind that seeming ease is a LOT of experience and practice.

Hmm...what is it that we practice? In other words, what are the trials designed to exercise? Isn't it trust?

And keep in mind where I am currently! Its a given that I am not as far as many.

 

[brakelite]

Me too!

When a person is going through surgery it's helpful to have a loved one nearby to help you through it. The same goes for the heavenly surgery of the cross cutting out the power of the selfish flesh out of us. The brethren are there to help us though that difficult process.

But I'm afraid that most people have never experienced the deeper work of the cross. That pain of being separated from the world, all we have previously loved...and even our own lives. But this is necessary to the kind of walk that Jesus walked in. His death and then a translation into His life.

I can remember two very similar instances when the Lord tested my resolve to walk with Him. The first was just a month or two after my initial conversion. I had a brilliant job...a rotating shift... Work morning/surf all afternoon.... Work afternoon/surf all morning... Work night/surf all day. Member of church rugby team. Lovely little cottage in country half way between work and beach. And the Lord asked... Told me to leave town. Go home. 300 miles on the other side of the island. Where there was no surf. And no job.

The second time was 2 half years ago. Living in NZ in beautiful rural atmosphere with wife... Tells us to sell everything and move to Australia. All our carefully gathered possessions gone... We came here with a just two bags each.

And I regret neither... Been incredibly liberating both times, and hugely rewarding. After moving the first time I met my wife and began a family...13 grandchildren later no-one is complaining. After the latest move I have landed the most satisfying and happiest job in my life. And am now living with 5 of those grandchildren. Life is good.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I can remember two very similar instances when the Lord tested my resolve to walk with Him. The first was just a month or two after my initial conversion. I had a brilliant job...a rotating shift... Work morning/surf all afternoon.... Work afternoon/surf all morning... Work night/surf all day. Member of church rugby team. Lovely little cottage in country half way between work and beach. And the Lord asked... Told me to leave town. Go home. 300 miles on the other side of the island. Where there was no surf. And no job.

The second time was 2 half years ago. Living in NZ in beautiful rural atmosphere with wife... Tells us to sell everything and move to Australia. All our carefully gathered possessions gone... We came here with a just two bags each.

And I regret neither... Been incredibly liberating both times, and hugely rewarding. After moving the first time I met my wife and began a family...13 grandchildren later no-one is complaining. After the latest move I have landed the most satisfying and happiest job in my life. And am now living with 5 of those grandchildren. Life is good.

I almost get...jealous when I read this. He has never given me instruction like that. I think its because...I don't know why. He has me in a place where He gives me no instruction like that, even if I plead and ask what I should do or what decision I should make, and I think it's to make me get firm in trust that He is guiding my steps even if I can't see that He is...