Is Jesus the only Way?

[Episkopos]

@Episkopos Is there a difference between 'daily manna' and 'hidden manna'? the latter being intimate and not to be given away?

I think so. Daily manna is for the righteous. For the faithful ones who wait upon the Lord. The hidden manna is for they who have entered into His holiness.

"that we may be partakers of HIS holiness."

Jesus Christ is hidden from this world. But He can be found through translation into the kingdom realm. So then the daily manna comes to us. But to get of the hidden manna...we need to go to Him.

 

[prism]

You have learned to misrepresent the bible and do as you wish. So the only person who is lord in your life is yourself.

God calls each of us to tarry someplace. Otherwise we would not be empowered as the early believers were. But you would have to hear God's voice.

You pretend to not be antagonistic to the bible...but you are. And you accuse me of being antagonistic to the bible....but I'm not. I see that it points to a living God. You can't see anything but what your carnal senses can discern.

So as per usual you have got it exactly wrong.

Why not seek for more of God? Why not try to learn from God?

Personal attacks are never as helpful as addressing the subject at hand, neither is assuming what the other knows or has done.

 

[Episkopos]

Personal attacks are never as helpful as addressing the subject at hand, neither is assuming what the other knows or has done.

Then you should stop doing as you say others are doing. Everything you say is upside down.

When have you ever actually addressed what I have said? You would bite the hand that feeds you.

 

[prism]

Haha! So you have never heard a 'canned message' from God?
I've heard many in my time. A preacher who comes to town, doesn't get a pertinent word from God's Spirit for the local body...but just dishes up something he has 'in his bag', a message he has preached before.

We used to tell those that we were mentoring.." When you get up on your hind legs to share a word, if you don't strike Oil in fifteen minutes , stop boring!!"

God's word is Alive and quickening.

Blessings ...H

Poor Noah, a preacher of righteousness, had only 8 converts after 100 years. Was he boring, devoid of the Spirit (they had no Scripture then/ just word of mouth), maybe he had canned sermons OR just maybe the people were in apostasy and didn't have ears to hear because they loved their sin? I think God is looking for faithfulness in preachers...faithfulness to His Word.

2 Peter 2:4-5 (KJV) For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

 

[prism]

Then you should stop doing as you say others are doing. Everything you say is upside down.

When have you ever actually addressed what I have said? You would bite the hand that feeds you.

I think what had been somewhat obvious is now fully so. Is this the way God's 'Spirit' is leading you? ...On Ignore,
until you can address the topic rather than continually attack others, IOW communicate like a decent person.

 

[Episkopos]

I think what had been somewhat obvious is now fully so. Is this the way God's 'Spirit' is leading you? ...On Ignore,
until you can address the topic rather than continually attack others, IOW communicate like a decent person.

Thank you. I hope this means I no longer have to defend my threads against your remarks.

 

[amadeus]

Amadeus, you're remembering those too, right?

Much love!

Oh yes! Sometimes I slip on this myself... and I don't always recognize it until after the fact. The only thing a person can do is to strive to stay on the Lord's side and sometimes we simply have to ask Him for help one more time. How many times will God answer our request for His help?

 

[prism]

Thank you. I hope this means I no longer have to defend my threads against your remarks.

I will speak to the topic, but ignore the insults. You should be able to defend 'Scripturally' whatever comes your way, without resorting to ad hominems.

 

[amadeus]

Hi amadeus,

Jesus' attitude in this was not being reflected, would you not agree?

Why are we so tolerant of ridicule amongst ourselves, even to the point of endlessly defending those who so engage?

Much love!

What are you trying to say? That sometimes we, perhaps I especially, defend when a person's behavior would warrant perhaps rather a rebuke or at the least silence? All of us miss the mark at times... Whether I agree with a person or not even in a measure is a factor with me as I attempt to defend... Perhaps it should not be, but I also am quite human and therefore also quite fallible.

What Paul wrote in the following verse shows the way that Jesus always responded to people in a selfless way instead of the selfish way of men of flesh following the ways of the flesh:

"Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves." Phil 2:3

It is easy enough to remember the intent of that verse but to make it a part of how we live is one of the those sometimes impossible things... but Jesus did it, did he not? His flesh was like our flesh. He did not want to suffer and death a terribly painful death... but as I said, Jesus did it anyway although He did ask for that cup to be removed. The cup was not removed. He had to drink it.

When we jump in with both feet sometimes we are out of line. I hope that I have not been here. I am talking to God about it.

 

[amadeus]

In that he teaches that people are not "in Christ" unless they are walking completely without sin - and who among us would claim, I have not sinned today? His claim is that you move in and out of being In Christ. That we should all desire oh so strongly that we could somehow be found worthy for God to move to bring us "into Christ", to walk in Zion with Christ, and so live holy, and without sin.

The Bible says we are free from sin now. The Bible says we are in Christ now. The Bible says that In Christ, we have every spiritual blessing. The Bible says that we are to reckon the old man dead. God tells us we are dead to sin and alive to God, and instructs us to live that way in the power of the Spirit which we have Right Now. Not in some hoped for future.

His doctrine denies these Scriptures, and teaches that being born again isn't enough, you have you take hold of something more, gain your own righteousness, so you can then be saved.

This is not the Bible I read, but Episkopos has revealed himself that he has little to no regard for the Bible. It's a book of law to him and we are to follow the Spirit.

He quotes from it, but when someone comes back to him with Scripture, we are no more than dogs to him.

It's in the teaching. It's in the attitude. Does Episkopos ever say good things? Error is generally mixed with truth.

I've obviously said too much already. Do we all say wrong things? Of course I know I do. This is absurd.

Much love!

Not only Episkopos, but also you and I and all the other guys... or most of them.

Errors in people who have not overcome completely and finally as Jesus did are always mixed with the measure of truth they do hold until they have finished overcoming all that they need to overcome. That means you and I and everyone else who is ever wrong in our understanding possess a mixture... but each of us should be on the approach to leaving all of our errors behind. Remember what John the Baptist said:

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

For us that is the Jesus in us [the new man] must increase even as the old man and his ways within us must decrease.

Until we have overcome all that stands in the way between us and God, we will continue to have errors. Once we have overcome it all [when and if] then we should be moving toward the sinlessness you mentioned. How close can a person get to that? Well the power of God is NOT the limit. If we have God working in us, but are slipping backwards, then likely we are quenching that power of God. We are quenching the Holy Spirit. Rather than arguing so much about who is on the wrong right track perhaps we should spend more time on learning to surrender our reins to God, the One who never misses the Way.

If we are dogs to someone, consider that gentile lady who simply said OK so long as I am able to eat crumbs from the Master's table. It was not just some man who called her a dog. It was Jesus! Have we not yet killed all of our beasts... including the dogs? They called Jesus names which were lies and Jesus held his peace... that is he remained silent. But... we should defend ourselves... why?

 

[amadeus]

I've realized that you believe the same as Episkopos, is that right?

That without reaching a sinless state we are not saved, or do I misunderstand?

Much love!

No, not precisely! I cannot speak for all that he believes or disbelieves.

What I believe is that we need to a have a perfect heart but a person with a perfect heart will not necessarily be sinless although he eventually he could be. David, the King of Israel, had a perfect heart, but he was not sinless. When caught by God through the prophet Nathan in the sin of murder [Uriah] and adultery [Bethsheba] David according to the written law should have been put to death, but David's perfect heart caused God to reduce the penalty.

Remember also that there were three levels on the Ark and that Noah built. The one on the lowest lever, the unclean beasts, were saved even though they were inedible.

 

[amadeus]

the Bible . . . is how you know Jesus said it.

Yes, but the Holy Spirit is how I know that the Bible was written under the inspiration of God.

Not taking away from what you've written here.

Jesus gave all the words of the Old Testament. When confronting the devil, instead of Jesus simply speaking to the devil with the authority of the Son of God, Jesus replied, "It is written . . ."

Yes, it is written, for it was written as men were inspired by God to write it... so it contains the message. But like a message from God in an unknown tongue without an interpretation who is able to understand it?

Jesus was the interpreter for his closest followers who were supposed to hear with understanding. For us the interpreter is the Holy Spirit in us if we are not quenching that Spirit.

It took the Holy Spirit for men to write it and it takes the Holy Spirit for men to understand it. Otherwise it will sound like a mindless babbling, will it not?

I'm asserting God gave us both the Holy Spirit, and a Book, and that the Holy Spirit uses that Book.

I cannot understand why such resistance to the Bible on a Christian forum.

Unbelievable to me!

The Holy Spirit uses the words contained in the Book by quickening them in the hearts of men. Resistance is not to the Bible itself but to the improper use of it. Remember that satan also quoted the scriptures to Jesus as if they would or could defeat the actual Word of God. Satan's usage was improper. Jesus quoted words from the same Bible, but his words were ALIVE.

 

[amadeus]

...and whether God in His mercy reveals what His written Word says. But again, it doesn't absolve us from seeking for God's wisdom in His Word.

So then study the Bible to encounter the Wisdom in His Word, but without the guidance and quickening of the Holy Spirit we will find nothing that is Good. Remember that only One is Good and that is God.

But you said earlier that we see through a glass darkly and now you want to point us back to the obscurity of our hearts? Sorry, I'll go with the purity of God's Word, which also interprets itself, so if our interpretation is faulty it will correct that interpretation in another section, as the Bible is a unified whole.

Our hearts, the new hearts of the new man, enlightened by the Word of God are not obscure. They may have only a through a darkened glass vision but God, if allowed to do so, can and will improve that vision It is the heart of the old man that remains dark no matter what. That man seeks only to eat more of that which is to God and the people of God inedible.

 

[amadeus]

That way out is in submission to the Word of God. I mean Jesus. I mean the Bible. I do not separate these into two different things, and then denigrate one.

If we only have the Bible without the Life giving Spirit, we only have a book with some sometimes interesting and often misunderstood writings in it. If we actually have Jesus, however, and believe in what we have, we have Life.

Are you deluded? That's not for me to say.

So then do not say, but if you are truly one of His sheep can you not recognize His voice?

"To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice." John 10:3-4

You claim that people believe they are right because they have studied, and that this is just like the religious leaders of Jesus' time.

Nothing wrong with study, but it not enough. [This is a part of my personal testimony given in other places.] The Apostle Paul then called Saul was well studied in the scriptures, but while we can say that he knew the scriptures, he did not know the Word of God for he did not know Jesus... until a bit later.

Why do you believe you are right?

I am a man and Solomon wrote that every man is right in his own eyes, so why not me too? What we need to do is regularly check in with God as the man of God in I Kings 13 failed to do to his own loss. I can say that I am in touch with God through the Holy Spirit on a daily basis, and that is enough for me, but it may not be enough for someone else who disagrees with me on he considers an essential point.

We can project onto others whatever reasons we want, but that only disparages them.

Yes, the deluded, in their delusions, do not see reality. But what is that between you and I?

Much love!

How do I check for those delusions in me? I let God do it:

"But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Luke 14:10-11

Each morning when I meet with God sometimes later in the day as well starting out once again at the lowest room where I knew nothing at all when I first met Him.

 

[amadeus]

It happens.

Missing Scripture

Yes, you are correct. It happens, but my point I guess is that it is not the most common of occurrences for most people.

 

[amadeus]

So rather than look to the Bible, we are to look inside to our thoughts and feelings, and to hope that they truly come from God, without another way to be sure.

Do you require such a detailed roadmap? How about looking in the Bible as well as in our own hearts and also talking to God about it?

And in looking to God's Word, this means I don't give God the glory?

You know the answer to that better than I with regard to yourself. I give God the glory when I remember to do so and know that this is never as often as I should.
Give God the glory!

 

[prism]

So then study the Bible to encounter the Wisdom in His Word, but without the guidance and quickening the Holy Spirit we will find nothing that is Good. Remember that only One is Good and that is God.

And without the written Word you will be at the mercy of a legion of spirits.

Our hearts, the new hearts of the new man, enlightened by the Word of God are not obscure. They may have only a through a darkened glass vision but God, if allowed to do so, can and will improve that vision It is the heart of the old man that remains dark no matter what. That man seeks only to eat more of that which is to God and the people of God inedible.

Romans 12:2 KJVS
[2] And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

2 Corinthians 4:16 KJVS
[16] For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

Ephesians 4:23 KJVS
[23] And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Colossians 3:10 KJVS
[10] And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Acts 20:32 KJVS
[32] And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

John 17:17 KJVS
[17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

 

[Helen]

@Episkopos Is there a difference between 'daily manna' and 'hidden manna'? the latter being intimate and not to be given away?

Very good point. I had not thought on that before.

We wait on the Lord each day for the living manna that feeds us...the Bread Of Heaven...fresh Manna obviously come with hearing the proceeding word... \
in Rev 2 we read 17 "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, " The time of constantly living in His presence and no more in and out. ( Rev 3.12)

Sadly there will be a place also of -
"Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
I counsel thee to buy of Me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see."

But that door is not yet shut...gold, tried in the fire, is still available ....the testings of Father which is bitter sweet, which bring is forth as gold... and eyesalve available for those who desire clearer deep vision into His realm.

Yes, good question indeed .

 

[marks]

Do you require such a detailed roadmap? How about looking in the Bible as well as in our own hearts and also talking to God about it?

You know the answer to that better than I with regard to yourself. I give God the glory when I remember to do so and know that this is never as often as I should.
Give God the glory!

Do you suggest that I do not seek truth from the Spirit of God Who lives in me? And do you take issue with seeking every truth in Scripture?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Not only Episkopos, but also you and I and all the other guys... or most of them.

Errors in people who have not overcome completely and finally as Jesus did are always mixed with the measure of truth they do hold until they have finished overcoming all that they need to overcome. That means you and I and everyone else who is ever wrong in our understanding possess a mixture... but each of us should be on the approach to leaving all of our errors behind. Remember what John the Baptist said:

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

For us that is the Jesus in us [the new man] must increase even as the old man and his ways within us must decrease.

Until we have overcome all that stands in the way between us and God, we will continue to have errors. Once we have overcome it all [when and if] then we should be moving toward the sinlessness you mentioned. How close can a person get to that? Well the power of God is NOT the limit. If we have God working in us, but are slipping backwards, then likely we are quenching that power of God. We are quenching the Holy Spirit. Rather than arguing so much about who is on the wrong right track perhaps we should spend more time on learning to surrender our reins to God, the One who never misses the Way.

If we are dogs to someone, consider that gentile lady who simply said OK so long as I am able to eat crumbs from the Master's table. It was not just some man who called her a dog. It was Jesus! Have we not yet killed all of our beasts... including the dogs? They called Jesus names which were lies and Jesus held his peace... that is he remained silent. But... we should defend ourselves... why?

I've just realized you had posted a couple of posts I hadn't seen.

I don't think you are receiving what I'm saying. I also don't think this edifies.

There is no need to continue. I'm sure I've said sufficient.

Much love!