Please explain this.

[Grailhunter]

Of the more than 1,000 works brought forward for inclusion in the canon, only 27 were selected and only an additional four others were ever under serious consideration: 1) The Shepherd of Hermas; 2) 1 Clement; 3) The Epistle of Barnabas; and 4) The Didache. They were ultimately rejected because of the uncertainty of their inspiration.

The gospels and epistles were simply added to the reading of the Tanakh (the "Law and the Prophets and the Psalms") and were recognized as being inspired by the Holy Spirit immediately--thus, Scripture. Eventually, as the Holy Spirit added to them, the early Jewish-Christians recognized the need for them to have their own section (just as the Torah was one section and the Prophets and Psalms were in sections in the Tanakh). The New Testament is properly grouped with the Old Testament--as indeed it is in the Holy Bible.

Yes. You must remember that Jewish-Christians were in danger of extreme punishment (ex. Stephen's execution) here on earth and even in the afterlife, were they to lie about something so important. If they did not truly believe that God spoke through them, by the Holy Spirit, why would they have risked their lives? Before they would go out on that limb, they must have very strongly believed that they were well-representing Jesus and His ministry--that He was, in fact, God in human flesh. They also had the assistance of the abiding and indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. Others also recognized that the Holy Spirit spoke through those closest to Jesus in life.

He was very wrong to deny Jesus because of his cowardice--even in spite of Jesus' warnings that he would. Why do you think that Peter wept bitterly at the last crowing of the rooster? The Apostle Paul tells of the hypocrisy incident in Galatians 2:11-13. It was another case of cowardice on Peter's part. But he was forgiven and strengthened to face his own martyrdom. By the way, foolishness and cowardice are condemned in the New Testament. (Mark 7:22 and Revelation 21:8 respectively).

No, they did not--I don't care what you have been told. The New Testament was written right along with the founding of the Church--within a few decades after the Resurrection. How do you think that the "early fathers" were able to quote so extensively and well from the New Testament writings, unless it was because they already had them in their possession? It has been said that if even our New Testaments were destroyed, we could piece them back together from the quotations in the writings of the early Christian writers.

To the contrary, even Mary would be offended, as it is blasphemous--and she was a devout Jewish (and then, Jewish-Christian) woman.

Ah--then I'm guessing that you are either evangelical Episcopalian or conservative Lutheran. Of those two, I would think the latter rather than the former. Anglicans/Episcopalians and Lutherans are being courted by the leadership of the RCC--who are quite apostate of course. These are perilous times.

5. Yes,,,the early fathers DID decide WHICH gospels and letters would go into the Bible.



No, they did not--I don't care what you have been told. The New Testament was written right along with the founding of the Church--within a few decades after the Resurrection. How do you think that the "early fathers" were able to quote so extensively and well from the New Testament writings, unless it was because they already had them in their possession? It has been said that if even our New Testaments were destroyed, we could piece them back together from the quotations in the writings of the early Christian writers.


Most of this is accurate…but the New Testament is an assembly of texts, that did not happen right away. The books were not assembled until Constantine ordered them to choose which texts would be included in the Bible…ordered it, financed it, oversaw it. The Old Testament was not included in this Bible for along time after that. So we are talking around 325-335 AD….give or take. So depending on which Church Fathers you are talking about...they did choose the texts and not necessarily at Nicaea

As far as the Mary thing...love the Protestants and love the Catholics...but it is a little short sighted to think that all divine things stopped at the last page of the Bible. That was a long time ago and God has been very active. Christianity is a living religion...it is not static. God has not been a cardboard cut out all this time nor just sitting around to be our prayer genie, He has actually been busy. As it stands there has been hundreds of Marian apparitions, witnessed by thousands of people...then there is of course the miracles. As it is, if Christ was sighted the Protestants would pooh pooh that too because it does not fit their stone model. Closed and stubborn minds are cursed to live in a bubble of limited understanding. I am still attempting to glue my head on from last time...don't be mean....

 

[farouk]

We can indeed lose out on the promise of eternal life...not because of disobedience, but because of unbelief. And unbelief results in disobedience and sin. (Unbelief I mean as in trust/faith/dependence.

If we lose out on eternal life, we never had it in the first place.

 

[brakelite]

If we lose out on eternal life, we never had it in the first place.

Uh huh. I have heard that before. Israel also thought their destiny secure being children of Abraham but by their breaking of God's covenant through unbelief, lost their inheritance. Faith has always been the base criteria for partaking of the promises of God, for without faith it is impossible to please Him. God would never break His covenant...but we most assuredly can...just as Israel through unbelief entered not into Canaan.
Covenants and/or testaments are promises and/or agreements between two or more parties. While one party can swear such promises shall never be broken by Him, the other party can indeed break the covenant through being unfaithful to the conditions inherent in the agreement. You are free to disbelieve God at any time. In fact, I could guarantee that there are statements and directions, promises and commandments, made by God that you do not believe. Such disagreements on your part may not affect now your eternal destiny...but later who knows what fruit may grow from such unbelief? Could not unbelief in one area develop into open rebellion in another? Are there not numerous precedents of this happening throughout scripture? Will God accept into glory those who are rebels and flagrant transgressors against His laws?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

That's very good Brakelite! I could easily hit the like button if not for knowing what you mean by the last few words and how you think about Sat/Sunday. Very good post though.

 

[bbyrd009]

so, sbg, what they are both saying is not true, from 1040 up, the circuit they are on up there? Havent read 1041 down yet. Anyway and as we will see they are not prepared to give a defense either, ok, and that doesnt mean i'm better than them nor you, or that i'm upset and losing sleep over this, or that anyone is condemned for their beliefs, ok, bc beliefs are completely irrelevant, they amount to a cyst on your forehead that will eventually pop anyway, and i could easily demonstrate this concept from Scripture too.

So dont think i dont appreciate any concern you might have for me, i do, or even that i am here trying to change your Beliefs, which i dont care about even a little, and neither does Abba. You can praise Jesus and ask God for forgiveness til the day you die, or til the day you live, is really the way to say it, and see i am not affected ok.

But when you are called to account for the faith that is in you, here, and you cannot do that, then i am going to become ha satan to you, ok, and i invite you to do the same for me. Otherwise lets talk about cats, ok?

 

[bbyrd009]

Uh huh. I have heard that before. Israel also thought their destiny secure being children of Abraham but by their breaking of God's covenant through unbelief, lost their inheritance. Faith has always been the base criteria for partaking of the promises of God, for without faith it is impossible to please Him. God would never break His covenant...but we most assuredly can...just as Israel through unbelief entered not into Canaan.
Covenants and/or testaments are promises and/or agreements between two or more parties. While one party can swear such promises shall never be broken by Him, the other party can indeed break the covenant through being unfaithful to the conditions inherent in the agreement. You are free to disbelieve God at any time. In fact, I could guarantee that there are statements and directions, promises and commandments, made by God that you do not believe. Such disagreements on your part may not affect now your eternal destiny...but later who knows what fruit may grow from such unbelief? Could not unbelief in one area develop into open rebellion in another? Are there not numerous precedents of this happening throughout scripture? Will God accept into glory those who are rebels and flagrant transgressors against His laws?

amen. Imo such disagreements on their part will affect now their "eternal" destiny, but as you have left room for doubt there i can still completely agree with you, even though i disagree with you, see, now we can walk together

 

[brakelite]

That's very good Brakelite! I could easily hit the like button if not for knowing what you mean by the last few words and how you think about Sat/Sunday. Very good post though.

Thank-you...I am stunned by your response. TIC. As to Sabbath/Sunday issue. God judges us by what light we have on any subject. We will not be condemned for what we do not know. This however does not excuse us from doing all we can to find understanding. And today, there is very little excuse for ignorance of God's word with the plethora of Bibles available to everyone, along with dictionaries, lexicons, concordances and commentaries scattered like leaves of autumn in every direction. Right now the issue of Sabbath is only beginning to come to light. After 1500 years of papal supremacy in all things, and with only a few light bearers during that time, it is only relatively recently that the Sabbath issue has come to the fore. Only in the last 150 years or so has the law of God been brought to prominence in teaching and Biblical exegesis. Prophecy regarding the last days is also only a recently discovered phenomenon. The announcements of the second coming only heard during that same period. Inherent in last day prophetic scenario is the keeping of God's commandments, for the last remnant of God's people prior to His coming are described as commandment keepers, having the faith of Jesus. (Revel. 14:6-12)
I have been discussing this issue on another thread. The choice we all have is to whom do we bow and unto whose authority do we submit? As far as the Sabbath/Sunday issue is concerned, upon whose authority is each one established. God...or man. Your choice. Soon, it will be a global legal issue, and as has been throughout the ages, those who choose to cleave to God's commandments contrary to popular earthly rulers, will be persecuted and in the end, put to death.

 

[bbyrd009]

Thank-you...I am stunned by your response. TIC. As to Sabbath/Sunday issue. God judges us by what light we have on any subject. We will not be condemned for what we do not know. This however does not excuse us from doing all we can to find understanding. And today, there is very little excuse for ignorance of God's word with the plethora of Bibles available to everyone, along with dictionaries, lexicons, concordances and commentaries scattered like leaves of autumn in every direction. Right now the issue of Sabbath is only beginning to come to light. After 1500 years of papal supremacy in all things, and with only a few light bearers during that time, it is only relatively recently that the Sabbath issue has come to the fore. Only in the last 150 years or so has the law of God been brought to prominence in teaching and Biblical exegesis. Prophecy regarding the last days is also only a recently discovered phenomenon. The announcements of the second coming only heard during that same period. Inherent in last day prophetic scenario is the keeping of God's commandments, for the last remnant of God's people prior to His coming are described as commandment keepers, having the faith of Jesus. (Revel. 14:6-12)
I have been discussing this issue on another thread. The choice we all have is to whom do we bow and unto whose authority do we submit? As far as the Sabbath/Sunday issue is concerned, upon whose authority is each one established. God...or man. Your choice. Soon, it will be a global legal issue, and as has been throughout the ages, those who choose to cleave to God's commandments contrary to popular earthly rulers, will be persecuted and in the end, put to death.

ah, so
now youre a prophet i guess. The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. One man esteems a certain day, others esteem every day alike. I doubt it will soon become a global legal issue myself, or that anyone will be put to death for it, not that anyone who actually keeps the Sabbath should be too worried about that anyway? Why monger fear bl, if someone wants to come kill me for keeping the Sabbath then here i am, let them try?

If my choices are that death or wasting away, which should i be seeking, do you think? See i object bc you maybe cause ppl to run away from somethig they should be running toward, like Armageddon, right, which is inferred there? Who do you think brings Armageddon, bl? Who should be most afraid of Armageddon, me, or satan, "who" already knows that Armageddon is his end?

 

[bbyrd009]

Even if one who has eternal life falls into sin, he/she still has eternal life--otherwise we would ALL be doomed to pop in and out of eternal life--who among us is without any sin at all? It is a gift and we know that God's gifts are irrevocable.

lol, jesus, where to even start with this steaming pile of douche, i just dont know. Doesnt all of the whipsawing back and forth between extremes make you neck hurt or anything? See this is what happens when you imagine definitions of "eternal" to suit yourself, i guess. Your woman has cut all her hair off, and is now wearing pants and starting fires in Church ok sweetie?

i could dismantle practically every sentence in your post with some Scripture, tell ya what, you pick the sentence and i'll do it, rather than waste a bunch of time, how bout that?

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

now, which one is it, which one of these is true, LC. You wanna teach, so teach me. While i go take a quick shower to get all the kjv off lol.

She's also dead.

she is alive and well, thriving even, ok, for better or worse idk. Pls contemplate "who" Mary is if you will bl, while i try to go get centered and nice again, as if

We can indeed lose out on the promise of eternal life...not because of disobedience, but because of unbelief. And unbelief results in disobedience and sin. (Unbelief I mean as in trust/faith/dependence.

? hard to stay naive, huh? Believe me i know. Very hard. we're tired of this manna, give us some meat.

This mortal must put in immortality see if youre going to pretend that eternal = immortal, even though you cannot find one single Quote for the concept, anywhere, then why not abuse this one? Sure It doesnt say "this mortal must become immortal" bc that is not, ever, going to happen, but then at least you arent conflating eternal and immortal just like incidentally Hollywood is doing every chance it gets, heard it no less than three times in passing in the last month myself. They usually do it very quickly, one sentence right after another? Noticed any of these?

 

[bbyrd009]

5. Yes,,,the early fathers DID decide WHICH gospels and letters would go into the Bible.



No, they did not--I don't care what you have been told. The New Testament was written right along with the founding of the Church--within a few decades after the Resurrection. How do you think that the "early fathers" were able to quote so extensively and well from the New Testament writings, unless it was because they already had them in their possession? It has been said that if even our New Testaments were destroyed, we could piece them back together from the quotations in the writings of the early Christian writers.


Most of this is accurate…but the New Testament is an assembly of texts, that did not happen right away. The books were not assembled until Constantine ordered them to choose which texts would be included in the Bible…ordered it, financed it, oversaw it. The Old Testament was not included in this Bible for along time after that. So we are talking around 325-335 AD….give or take. So depending on which Church Fathers you are talking about...they did chose the texts and not necessarily at Nicaea

As far as the Mary thing...love the Protestants and love the Catholics...but it is a little short sighted to think that all divine things stopped at the last page of the Bible. That was a long time ago and God has been very active. Christianity is a living religion...it is not static. God has not been a cardboard cut out all this time nor just sitting around to be our prayer genie, He has actually been busy. As it stands there has been hundreds of Marian apparitions, witnessed by thousands of people...then there is of course the miracles. As it is, if Christ was sighted the Protestants would pooh pooh that too because it does not fit their stone model. Closed and stubborn minds are cursed to live in a bubble of limited understanding. I am still attempting to glue my head on from last time...don't be mean....

^ rawx imo, ty

 

[bbyrd009]

dint Jesus even Quote from Barnabas? Why let Paul's wolves decide what is valid Writings for you then, right? Test everything, and keep what is good

 

[bbyrd009]

just sitting around to be our prayer genie,

narf

 

[bbyrd009]

Uh huh. I have heard that before. Israel also thought their destiny secure being children of Abraham but by their breaking of God's covenant through unbelief, lost their inheritance. Faith has always been the base criteria for partaking of the promises of God, for without faith it is impossible to please Him. God would never break His covenant...but we most assuredly can...just as Israel through unbelief entered not into Canaan.
Covenants and/or testaments are promises and/or agreements between two or more parties. While one party can swear such promises shall never be broken by Him, the other party can indeed break the covenant through being unfaithful to the conditions inherent in the agreement. You are free to disbelieve God at any time. In fact, I could guarantee that there are statements and directions, promises and commandments, made by God that you do not believe. Such disagreements on your part may not affect now your eternal destiny...but later who knows what fruit may grow from such unbelief? Could not unbelief in one area develop into open rebellion in another? Are there not numerous precedents of this happening throughout scripture? Will God accept into glory those who are rebels and flagrant transgressors against His laws?

will be interesting to note farouk's defense here, yeh, being as how you have called him to account

 

[GodsGrace]

You're welcome.

I believe it because that is what it says. One thing that you might want to think about is that resurrected beings live (or die) forever. Some believe that ordinary wicked humans will have some period of punishment in the "place of torment" in hades and then be thrown into the LoF for annihilation but Christians who believe the Bible have pretty much all believed that it will be unending because of what Jesus says in the gospel of Matthew. Be that as it may, there does seem to be a definite curse on the Beast, False Prophet, those who take the Mark of the Beast and Satan, to be tormented forever in the LoF--that is what the Bible clearly says. Remember that Jesus said, in Matthew 25:46 that there is such a thing as "eternal punishment".

Why not? Revelation 1:3 says, "God blesses the one who reads the words of this prophecy to the church, and He blesses all who listen to its message and obey what it says, for the time is near." (In God's timing, only two days have passed since the Resurrection.)

Yes,,,I do know of some that believe the beginning of your first paragraph...
that the LofF will just burn everything up because God could not be so mean as to let the lake last forever.

I too tend to believe that it will be eternal...but some that believe it will not are REALLY intelligent, like theologian intelligent.

It's not something I'd debate because I don't plan on going there.
LOL

If you notice, I only go on and on about soteriology...otherwise it's not really worth it. One could believe what he will believe -- I'm not basically here because I like to argue or debate.

 

[GodsGrace]

Sure you do. Every Christian who undertakes to study the word of God forms their own thoughts about what the Bible says. That is a theology.

Well, I learned from others.
But I do feel that I have to come to grips with everything in my own mind.
If that's what you mean...OK.

 

[GodsGrace]

Uh huh. I have heard that before. Israel also thought their destiny secure being children of Abraham but by their breaking of God's covenant through unbelief, lost their inheritance. Faith has always been the base criteria for partaking of the promises of God, for without faith it is impossible to please Him. God would never break His covenant...but we most assuredly can...just as Israel through unbelief entered not into Canaan.
Covenants and/or testaments are promises and/or agreements between two or more parties. While one party can swear such promises shall never be broken by Him, the other party can indeed break the covenant through being unfaithful to the conditions inherent in the agreement. You are free to disbelieve God at any time. In fact, I could guarantee that there are statements and directions, promises and commandments, made by God that you do not believe. Such disagreements on your part may not affect now your eternal destiny...but later who knows what fruit may grow from such unbelief? Could not unbelief in one area develop into open rebellion in another? Are there not numerous precedents of this happening throughout scripture? Will God accept into glory those who are rebels and flagrant transgressors against His laws?

Hi BL,
The above is a very good point!
I happen to know the covenants well, or at least enough to know that I know very little, but your point has never come to my mind.

Conditional covenants certainly have been broken by man.
And as far as unconditional covenants,,,I like to say that regarding the N.C.
one has to be IN IT and not LEAVE IT.

But, of course, this is not well understood.
With this reasoning of THEY WERE NEVER SAVED...it becomes difficult to continue, even though I may post 2 Peter 2:19-21 for instance...
or even LUKE 8:13 which is JESUS saying the belief was temporary!

Anyway, thanks for posting the above.

 

[GodsGrace]

What, Ezekiel isn't good enough for you? Like it isn't the inspired word of the Lord?

The Bible is the Bible; and the verses I referenced in Ezekiel say best what I was wanting to say.

Philippians 2:12-13 says it well too; but Ezekiel 36:25-27 says it better.

It's just that I'm becoming weary of persons that have to go back to the O.T. to make a point....

Ezekiel 36:25-27 says the same as
Philippians 2:12-13

And what do they say?

If you're calvinist in theology, you won't have a problem with what they say...
If not....then it's difficult to take the words there literally.

God WILL NOT PUT a new heart in you UNLESS you want Him to.
And God is indeed at work in us through the Holy Spirit, IF WE WANT HIM TO BE.

God is not manipulating our hands, feet, mouth, and mind.
He can only INFLUENCE us to do His will...He does not force us.

If you understand the trichotomy of man, you'll understand that the spirit of man AFFECTS the soul....it DOES NOT manipulate it.

So when you say that GOD WILL CAUSE US to go in His ways,,,
you are basically saying that we are His puppets and do everything He wants.
Which means you never sin...
and the two above statements cannot be true.

 

[justbyfaith]

God WILL NOT PUT a new heart in you UNLESS you want Him to.
And God is indeed at work in us through the Holy Spirit, IF WE WANT HIM TO BE.

God is not manipulating our hands, feet, mouth, and mind.
He can only INFLUENCE us to do His will...He does not force us.

If you understand the trichotomy of man, you'll understand that the spirit of man AFFECTS the soul....it DOES NOT manipulate it.

So when you say that GOD WILL CAUSE US to go in His ways,,,
you are basically saying that we are His puppets and do everything He wants.

Indeed, for Him to cause us to walk in His statutes and in His judgments, we must first generally surrender to Him doing that work in us.

I think that 1 John 2:17 also applies to this and the next post in this thread.

 

[justbyfaith]

or even LUKE 8:13 which is JESUS saying the belief was temporary!

Which verse speaks of a mental assent to the tenets of the gospel (mere mental assent)...a shallow, nominal, or lukewarm faith.

John 6:47, on the other hand (faith which brings everlasting life; the nature of it is that it will never end), speaks of a heart faith (Romans 10:10) that is unto righteousness and enduring to the end (Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14, Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13).

 

[bbyrd009]

Thanks Lady C...
I know hardly anything about eschatology. I don't think I've ever read Revelation all the way through.

Some believe that the LoF will just burn everything up so that there's nothing left.
Instead YOU believe that it will last forever?

I won't be studying this any time soon...

eschatology and divining, they go together i guess