Tribulation saints

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Davy

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LOL ~ I am well aware there are TWO witnesses and their Appointed Purpose, DURING the Great Tribulation.

I don't agree with Earburner, that Christ's Church will Be Witnessing TO ANYONE on Earth, during the Great Tribulation.

Glory to God,
Taken

And I know why you don't agree Christ's Church will be witnessing on earth during the great tribulation, it's because of your belief on man's Pre-trib Rapture theory, which is not written.

It is unmistakable, the seven candlesticks John saw in Heaven in Revelation 1 are... the seven Churches. That according to Jesus Himself.

The fact that you have not understood about the 'stand' in Christ that two of those seven Churches will make, along with God's two witnesses, comes from the fact that the Pre-trib Rapture doctors tell you Christ's Olivet discourse is not for the Church.

So they wrongly teach you to disregard this...

Mark 13:9-11
9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

KJV


Even when Apostle Peter in Acts 2 quoted from Joel 2, they don't tell you what timing that Joel 2 Scripture actually is (i.e., tribulation timing just prior to Christ's coming on the day of the Lord). Pentecost was only an example of the Joel 2 event that is set for the very end of this world when some of Christ's elect will be delivered up to give a Testimony for Jesus against them by The Holy Spirit speaking through them, i.e., the real latter day purpose of the cloven tongue!
 

Taken

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I love God's Word, and I keep to it, even when I find new things in It I don't yet understand. Then I ask Him about it, not man.

Like you, I used to listen to men's doctrines and was once terribly deceived by them, and learned that they don't care about my soul, but only a paycheck. Jesus called those hirelings (John 10).

LOL ~ Like me, that you CLAIM FOR ME, to be deceived by TEACHINGS OF MEN?

Guess you have not NOTICED, I quite OFTEN REJECT the TEACHINGS OF men, who teach and preach LIKE YOU.

Who is going to care about our own soul if we keep listening to men's doctrines instead of the simplicity in God's Word?

Apparently YOU have also NOT NOTICED...
I DO NOT DROP NAMES of MEN outside of Scripture as them being MY TEACHERS...

Apparently YOU had TEACHERS OUTSIDE of Scripture that YOU FOLLOWED AFTER THEIR TEACHINGS....

AND YOU HAVE MADE REPETATIVE "FALSE" Claims FOR OTHER People, AND "FALSELY" identified BY DROPPING NAMES, of whom OTHERS HAVE FOLLOWED....even making that FALSE accusation to me....

WHEN NOT ONCE, Have I ever made that claim for myself.

Perhaps you should give some thought to NOT MAKING UP LIES, and making FALSE accusations that what YOU CLAIM, is an others Belief....WHEN the Other has SAID NO SUCH THING.

What you do, is called Lying and Called Fasely Testifying.

Pretty hard to give ANY consideration to anything you say...when you continue your charade of Lying about others and making False Testimony about others.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

farouk

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Enoch,

'Οὗτοί εἰσιν οἱ ἐρχόμενοι ἐκ τῆς θλίψεως τῆς μεγάλης' (Rev 7:14) is literally translated 'these are the (ones) coming out of the tribulation, the great'. ἐρχόμενοι (erchomenoi) is a present tense, middle voice, participle that presents the idea of continuing or repeated coming out. Coming out of what? The great tribulation!

To state that <<In the KJV, one will never find the words "THE" Great Tribulation">> (you did not state this) demonstrates how the KJV mistranslated Rev 7:14 from the Greek Text. The Textus Receptus on which the KJV of 1611 was based give in Rev 7:14 the same Greek construction as for later Greek NTs.

For anyone to state that there is no 'great tribulation' in the NT avoids the clear teaching of the Greek text from the Textus Receptus to NT Greek texts used in modern translations.

The Geneva Bible of 1599, which is earlier than the KJV, translates Rev 7:14 as 'And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb'. Charles commented: 'The martyrs are still arriving from the scene of the great tribulation' (in A T Robertson 1933:353).

In fact, the NKJV translates Rev 7:14 as, 'So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb'.

Sadly, the KJV of 1611 is an inaccurate translation of τῆς θλίψεως τῆς μεγάλης when it does not translate as 'the great tribulation'.

Oz
There is also the Matthew 24 event, which clearly speaks of a unique future event on earth, not related to the church, to be raptured in the air (1 Thess. 4).
 

Davy

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LOL ~ Like me, that you CLAIM FOR ME, to be deceived by TEACHINGS OF MEN?

Guess you have not NOTICED, I quite OFTEN REJECT the TEACHINGS OF men, who teach and preach LIKE YOU.



Apparently YOU have also NOT NOTICED...
I DO NOT DROP NAMES of MEN outside of Scripture as them being MY TEACHERS...

Apparently YOU had TEACHERS OUTSIDE of Scripture that YOU FOLLOWED AFTER THEIR TEACHINGS....

AND YOU HAVE MADE REPETATIVE "FALSE" Claims FOR OTHER People, AND "FALSELY" identified BY DROPPING NAMES, of whom OTHERS HAVE FOLLOWED....even making that FALSE accusation to me....

WHEN NOT ONCE, Have I ever made that claim for myself.

Perhaps you should give some thought to NOT MAKING UP LIES, and making FALSE accusations that what YOU CLAIM, is an others Belief....WHEN the Other has SAID NO SUCH THING.

What you do, is called Lying and Called Fasely Testifying.

Pretty hard to give ANY consideration to anything you say...when you continue your charade of Lying about others and making False Testimony about others.

Glory to God,
Taken

The claims I have made are true. You are against any and all... Scripture that tears down men's doctrines you follow of a Pre-trib Rapture theory. You love the doctrines of men by what you show, not God's Word as written.
 

Earburner

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I was speaking of THEE WITNESSES,
During the "GREAT TRIBULATION.

Ya sure Men IN CHRIST witness to others, JUST AS THE chosen Disciples of Jesus were sent to teach and preach and proclaim as Witnesses that Jesus the Christ Messiah.

^^ THAT WAS NOT during the GREAT TRIBULATION!

The GREAT TRIBULATION has NOT YET Occurred.

Listen to what the Disciples Taught about the COMING GREAT TRIBULATION...

Matt 24:
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Do you NOT comprehend, THE WHOLE WORLD was Destroyed with WATER...
And THE WHOLE WORLD shall AGAIN BE DESTROYED? You think that HAS ALREADY HAPPENED?

Learn; It is NOT Gentile Men Witnessing to JEWS IN Jerusalem,
During the GREAT TRIBULATION...
It is TWO WITNESSES God SENDS to WITNESS TO tHE Jews IN Jerusalem During
The GREAT TRIBULATION.

And THEY WITNESS for 3 1/2 " YEARS " !

No, You, Me, other Gentiles ARE NOT Gods WITNESSES DURING the GREAT TRIBULATION!

Rev 11
[3] And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Glory to God,
Taken
It's quite possible that you have not thought about this:
The Two Witnesses already came, being John the Baptist and Jesus.
Together, their ministry was for 3.5 years.
Approximately 6 mos. for John the Baptist, and approx. 3 years for Jesus, equals 3.5 years.
 

Taken

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If you say you don't deny those Scriptures by our Lord Jesus, then why do you continually teach against them?

I don't.

When you teach that Jesus comes to gather His Church prior to the tribulation, and that those left behind are Jews that come to Jesus during... the tribulation, i.e., Pre-trib's "tribulation saints" idea which is not... written of in God's Word, then you are teaching against those very Scriptures I posted.

No. I disagree WITH YOUR UNDERSTANDING;
And I AGREE WITH the Lords Understanding.

I Expressly explained this to you, then Asked you Questions, which you did not answer.

What do you think is the PURPOSE of the Great Tribulation?

A Time for God to SHOW HIS ANGER at men WHO have Accepted Him and His Christ Messiah?

You said you would REMAIN ON EARTH...Doing the Lords WILL...of Preaching that others might become converted...Correct?

Where IS THAT Scriptural Teaching?

And Are you going to Synagogs and Mosques and Buddhist Temples NOW, where Jews, and Muslims and Buddhists gather to TEACH them of God and Gods Christ Messiah, so that they may CONVERT?

IF NOT WHY NOT, when you teach, that is what you would be doing DURING the Tribulation?

The reason why I say this is because Jesus is talking to His Church right there in Matthew 24 and Mark 13, even the foundation of His Church per Ephesians 2. And He is forewarning them as to what they may expect to happen to them during the tribulation. He certainly is not... telling them they will escape it like the Pre-trib Rapture doctors teach.

JESUS CAME TO SAVE THE JEWS...
JESUS traveled to TOWNS where JEWS LIVED..
JESUS' Brethren WERE JEWS.
JESUS' PRIMARY Audience WERE:
...the Curious....JEWS and GENTILES.

NOT EVERYONE Listening...Became Convinced, Elected to Believe, or Even Understood WHAT He was talking ABOUT.

Jesus' JEWISH Brethren are ONE thing.
Jesus' "ANYONE" Brethren are Another thing.

JEWS are Brethren by Division God SET.
Brethren "IN" Christ are Brethren by a Division that JESUS SET.

Ya, ya, ya,.....WHILE Jesus was ON EARTH, many JEWS became CONVERTED, and BELIEVED IN BOTH GOD, AND Jesus the Christ.

OPEN YOUR EYES...FOR ONLY A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME...WHILE Jesus was ON EARTH and WHILE JESUS' chosen JEWISH Disciples were ON EARTH were ANY OF the Majority of the TRIBES OF ISRAEL "CONVERTING" to BELIEF IN Jesus the Christ Messiah.

Do you think "THAT" ISRAEL, the ELECT OF GOD...WHO REJECT Jesus the CHRIST MESSIAH...SHALL BE SAVED...BY YOUR PREACHING during the GREAT TRIBULATION?

Scripture doesn't SAY SO.
Scripture EXPRESSILY reveals GOD SENDS "HIS" two WITNESSES.
GOD SEND "HIS" 144,000 of 12,000 from EVERY one of the TWELVE TRIBES to Preach to ISRAEL....
ARE YOU one of Thee TWO WITNESSES?
ARE YOU one of THEE 144,000?

WHERE is YOUR ROLE described DURING THE Great TRIBULATION? And WHY?

Because MY ROLE is described BEING WITH THEE Lord, IN THE CLOUDS.

And WHY IS BECAUSE I AM NOT "APPOINTED" to suffer Gods End of Days (ANGER/WRATH).

BECAUSE, I am ALREADY ACCOUNTED "WHOLE"....Body, Soul, Spirit...IN FULL FAITHFULNESS TO GOD and CHRIST Jesus.

Apparently you are unaware, MANY OTHERS, particularly Gods ELECT "TRIBES OF ISRAEL", MUST suffer SOME of Gods ANGER, for having Rejected Jesus as their Christ Messiah....
AND THEN Come into Belief, IN Jesus as their Christ Messiah...and SUFFER PHYSICAL DEATH at the hands of the Anti-Christ.

I have NO APPOINTMENT TO SUFFER Physical Death, during the Great Tribulation (When the Anti-Christ is Revealed) at the Hands of the Anti-Christ....

I AM ALREADY "DEAD IN CHRIST"...when MY BODY WAS CRUCIFIED AS HIS BODY WAS" !

And Because I AM DEAD IN CHRIST, I am therefore ALIVE "IN CHRIST". It is IN CHRIST by which I LIVE....

I am ALREADY PREPARED TO BE Resurrected and BODILY RISE UP to My Lord IN the Clouds, WHEN HE CALLS...BECAUSE HIS Sheep "HEAR" His Voice, His Calling UP TO HIM.

My BODY shall PHYSICALLY BE CHANGED AS IT IS RISING UP TO HIM! Just as Jesus' Body was Changed from the flesh body a man can SEE to a Glorious Body, that rose up to the CLOUDS.

AT the END of the GREAT TRIBULATION....
Gods ELECT, ie Gods People ISRAEL WHO DID NOT BECOME Christ's Church, but came to belief in Jesus the Christ Messiah....SHALL be Bodily Gathered together, by God, unto God.

There is a TIMING for a man to Become "A MEMBER" of Christ's Church.

First Jesus, the SON OF MAN, had to be revealed. That Happened.

Then, The Son of Man, Jesus, had to be revealed as the Son of God. That Happened.

Then, the Son of God, Jesus, had to be revealed as the Christ Messiah. That Happened.

Then, Men of the earth had to HEAR, of those things.

Then, Men of the earth had to BELIEVE, those things.

And the DIVISION IS...NOT ALL MEN of the Earth BELIEVE those things.

it is CHRIST who is descending from Heaven to the Clouds.....NOT the Lamb of God, NOT Jesus the Son of Man.....THEE CHRIST MESSIAH...!

Calling up HIS CHURCH TO HIM!
MEMBERSHIP "TO" CHRIST'S CHURCH IS CLOSED....Christ'a Church will NO LONGER "BE" ON EARTH!

And WHEN, "Jews/ Israel Tribes", begin believing in Jesus the Christ Messiah, during the Tribulation....they are becoming CONVERTED....But they are NOT becoming Members of Christ's Church.
They are NOT Being BODILY Crucified with Christ....they ARE Being BODILY KILLED by the Anti-Christ.

And THEIR saved souls are gathered together and GO TO HEAVEN.

And AFTER the great TRIBULATION, THEIR BODIES are gathered together ON EARTH.

"THEY shall SEE the SON OF MAN, Coming DOWN FROM the Clouds, and CRYING for having DISBELIEVED".

Christ's CHURCH shall be coming WITH HIM...
Since WHERE Christ IS, IS ALSO HIS Church.

So, No I do not deny an end of days Resurrection of Gods Elect Israel, and Gods gathering of the BODIES of HIS People Israel.

I simply Believe, as Scripture Teaches, Christ the Lord Jesus, resurrects HIS People, IN CHRIST, HIS Church UP TO HIM, Before the Great Tribulation.

And IN the FINALITY...ALL People WITH thee Lord God Almighty....WILL Believe IN
THEE Lord God Almighty and ....
The titles, Jewish, Israel, Christians....will NO LONGER Be a Division...
They WILL BE ONE People with ONE thee Lord God Almighty.

But to IGNORE the DIVISION NOW...you can not therefore understand WHEN their Division Ends and When they are Separated from those "WITHOUT" Christ.



Glory to God,
Taken
 

Earburner

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LOL ~ I am well aware there are TWO witnesses and their Appointed Purpose, DURING the Great Tribulation.

I don't agree with Earburner, that Christ's Church will Be Witnessing TO ANYONE on Earth, during the Great Tribulation.

Glory to God,
Taken
So then, there have been no born again Christians, who do come in the name of the Lord, to the Jews since Pentecost??
What is it with your mantra about your "THE" great Tribulation"? Is that the only time that you think that Jews can get saved?
For the past 2000 years, there were more Jews who lived then, in comparison to the handful that live now, or in any make believe future 7.5 year Tribulation!.
Paul the Apostle, or any of the others, NEVER supported that way of thinking!
Did you want to think that God didn't want them to come to Jesus, in all their generations, then???
 

OzSpen

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College level? Since you are far more knowledgeable than I in the Greek language, then you know that the surrounding context helps to choose the correct word choice in translation, of a verse in question. Not only that, you also know that in the literal word for word translation of Greek into English, the fluency of sentence structure must be rearranged, in order to provide a fluid conveyance of thoughts in English.

AND???
 

OzSpen

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There is also the Matthew 24 event, which clearly speaks of a unique future event on earth, not related to the church, to be raptured in the air (1 Thess. 4).

farouk,

Matt 24:9ff indicates that this tribulation/persecution that leads to the great tribulation includes believers who are still on the earth. If it were not for the elect, this tribulation would not be cut short.

Oz
 

Keraz

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JESUS CAME TO SAVE THE JEWS...
If that is so, then Jesus failed in His mission.
No; He came to save the lost sheep of the House of Israel, the ten Northern tribes and we Christians are the successful result.

Your idea of a general Jewish redemption is totally unbiblical, never stated to happen. Only a remnant of the Jews will be saved.
The teaching of the Jews on earth, while the Church is in heaven during the Great Tribulation, is false and neither will happen. God's holy people are seen on earth during that time. Proved by Daniel 7:23, Revelation 13:7 and Revelation 12:6-17
 

Taken

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The claims I have made are true.


You claim there is a POST-TRIBULATION gathering unto God....correct?

WHO disagreed with you?

You are against any and all...
Scripture that tears down men's doctrines

I am AGAINST...Any and All Scripture that tears down men's doctrines??

And what is your point? You disagree and You are FOR Any and All of "men's" doctrines?

you follow of a Pre-trib Rapture theory.


What is your point? You disagree and You follow a Post-trib theory?

You love the doctrines of men by what you show,

LOL...So what is your point?
YOU CLAIM, I LOVE what I am AGAINST?

That is Big of you to MAKE CLAIMS FOR ME...
However I am better suited to make MY OWN CLAIMS for myself.


You are against any and all...
Scripture that tears down men's doctrines


not God's Word as written.

I have quoted and agreed with many of God's Word as written in conversation with you, so your claim is False.


Glory to God,
Taken
 

Earburner

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"AND" nothing!
What I posted is self explanatory!
"the surrounding context helps to choose the correct word choice in translation, of a verse in question."
.
"(in the) translation of Greek into English, the fluency of sentence structure must be rearranged, in order to provide a fluid conveyance of thoughts in English."
.
It is the Holy Spirit who guides us into the truth of God's thoughts and ways, being conveyed in HIS USE of the languages of man.
Isa. 55:8-9; John 16:13.
 

Taken

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It's quite possible that you have not thought about this:
The Two Witnesses already came, being John the Baptist and Jesus.
Together, their ministry was for 3.5 years.
Approximately 6 mos. for John the Baptist, and approx. 3 years for Jesus, equals 3.5 years.

Excellent Point ...

Yes, God SENDS .... Witnesses, and that in itself could be a LONG indepth Study.

Then Consider.... The recipients...ie Every single Individual who has ever lived... of what "THEY" heard......AND what "THEY" accepted to BELIEVE, and HOLD that Belief.

IOW ~ God SENDING, is Gods ACT.
Individual men ALL have their own Individual Option to Choose to Believe OR NOT.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Keraz

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You claim there is a POST-TRIBULATION gathering unto God....correct?
If scripture is read correctly, the gathering of those Christians who remain, after the Trib; when Jesus Returns, is initially to the clouds and then to the holy Land. Where Jesus will reign as King over all the world for the next 1000 years. Matthew 24:30-31 proves this.
 

Taken

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So then, there have been no born again Christians, who do come in the name of the Lord, to the Jews since Pentecost??

You would need to ask that question to whoever said that.

What is it with your mantra about your "THE" great Tribulation"?

It's Great Signifiance.

Is that the only time that you think that Jews can get saved?

No.

For the past 2000 years, there were more Jews who lived then, in comparison to the handful that live now, or in any make believe future 7.5 year Tribulation!.
Paul the Apostle, or any of the others, NEVER supported that way of thinking!

So? I haven't seen anyone saying anything about a 7.5 year Tribulation, except you.

Why make silly comments then disagree with yourself?

Did you want to think that God didn't want them to come to Jesus, in all their generations, then???

LOL...where do you come up with such silly questions?

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Taken

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If scripture is read correctly, the gathering of those Christians who remain, after the Trib;

Christians who remain AFTER the Trib...?

Uh, disagree.


when Jesus Returns, is initially to the clouds and then to the holy Land. Where Jesus will reign as King over all the world for the next 1000 years. Matthew 24:30-31 proves this.

Scripture says, Jesus DESCENDS to the Clouds, and then to Earth.
No disput about that.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Mal'ak

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All Christians will be here during the Tribulation, the "rapture" is a 1 verse cop out for scared people who do not trust God can protect them and who do not have the Holy Spirit guiding their study of God's Word. Rapture is only stated ONE TIME in the Bible and it is taken out of context, if you use one verse from the Bible as a way to create your entire doctrine you can make up any doctrine you want...does not mean it is God's Word.

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


Besides the Two Witnesses, "we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep...the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout....then we...shall be caught up together with them in the clouds". During the tribulation it is not about works or helping people see the anti-Christ is satan, our only job is to spiritual survive the great test.

Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:


We are told about the tribulation and the second coming by Jesus himself, but many ignore Jesus' teachings because it does not fit their rapture lies. But Jesus tells us there will be many false prophets, but when the "abomination of desolation...stand in the holy place...flee into the mountains". For those that studied Daniel, the Abomination of desolation is satan coming down pretending to be Jesus, and he will be copying Jesus' coming by ruling from the Temple in Jerusalem. Though when Jesus does come, he will be ruling from the Temple out of Heaven in the clouds. In 1 Thessalonians we are told we can not help those people "asleep" or the non-believers/ignorant Christians, so Jesus in Matthew tells us what we should be doing, which is to lay low and "flee into the mountains".

Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


At the end of the Chapter Jesus explains we will be here and when he will return to call us together, if you want to know the truth, but your choice to continue in rapture doctrine as a coward not trusting God.

1. Jesus tells us "except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved:but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened". So we know Christians will be here at the end, because God altered his plan just so we can survive it by shortening the time satan is on earth.

2. "Immediately after the tribulation....they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds....he shall send his angels....they shall gather together his elect". So we know after the tribulation, all Christians will be gathered together by the Angels of Jesus to rule with him for the thousand years.
 
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Earburner

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It's quite possible that you have not thought about this:
The Two Witnesses already came, being John the Baptist and Jesus.
Together, their ministry was for 3.5 years.
Approximately 6 mos. for John the Baptist, and approx. 3 years for Jesus, equals 3.5 years.
"Taken" doesn't want to touch this with a ten foot pole, because it might upset his indoctrination of a "Pre-Trib Rapture"
 

Keraz

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Christians who remain AFTER the Trib...?

Uh, disagree.
I have asked you to read Revelation 12:6-17. It plainly and unequivocally states that those who keep God's Commandments and maintain their witness to Jesus, are there; in the holy Land when the AC [the 'dragon'] conquers them.
Some of the Christians; those who refuse the treaty with the leader of the One World Govt, Daniel 11:32, will be kept safe on earth for that 1260 days until Jesus Returns. His angels will gather them and transport to where Jesus is; then. Matthew 24:30-31

It is time for you to realize that the 'rapture to heaven of the Church' theory, is a crock and will never happen.
 

Earburner

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Excellent Point ...

Yes, God SENDS .... Witnesses, and that in itself could be a LONG indepth Study.

Then Consider.... The recipients...ie Every single Individual who has ever lived... of what "THEY" heard......AND what "THEY" accepted to BELIEVE, and HOLD that Belief.

IOW ~ God SENDING, is Gods ACT.
Individual men ALL have their own Individual Option to Choose to Believe OR NOT.

Glory to God,
Taken
If it's such "an excellent point", then are you able and willing to study the depth of how
"the two witnesses" are indeed what I said:
"It's quite possible that you have not thought about this:
The Two Witnesses already came, being John the Baptist and Jesus.
Together, their ministry was for 3.5 years.
Approximately 6 mos. for John the Baptist, and approx. 3 years for Jesus, equals 3.5 years."
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Not many professing Christians dare to even entertain it, because it is so diametrically opposed to all of what they have been taught by the "scholarly learned". Ref. Zech. 4:1-14. Specifically verse 4.
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Did you know, that John the Baptist and Jesus are the ONLY two who were physically born with the Holy Spirit?
See Luke 1:15; 31-37