Tribulation saints

[Earburner]

Please examine Rev. 7[9] After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
[10] And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

 

[Earburner]

Oh, and don't forget the white robes! Will you say that only the LAST day people, when Jesus returns, shall be the recipients of Eternal Life?

Hmmm...I didn't think so.

 

[Taken]

Given the fact that the Greek Texts are different in the ways of presenting Rev. 7:14, I conclude that the latter portion of that scripture precisely interprets the former portion to be "come out of great tribulation".
To force it to be erroneously interpreted as "THE Great Tribulation", means one has not resolved the clarity of what is directly connected to it, which is by the word "and":
"and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb'.
That statement is pointedly telling of whom it is that are involved with "great tribulation".
Shall any you say that there were not many Saints and martyrs down through centuries, who have not suffered "great tribulation" in Rev. 7:14??
I dare say that you can't!
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Therefore, that latter portion of verse14 describes that "great tribulation" is not isolated to ONLY Christians at the very end of God's Age of Grace, but rather all christians, in all generations, have suffered "great tribulation", ever since Pentecost!!
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To isolate the words "great tribulation", to only the last day christians, is a foul understanding, and is solely derived from a most obvious error, in the interpretation of the "70 Weeks" in Daniel.
The majority of the churches have fallen victim to that LIE of attaching a so called "missing week" and placing at the end of the last days, thus fabricating, what THEY foolishly call "The 7 year Great Tribulation".
.
Now you know how it is that you falsely believe!!

You are in Error.

Every generation of Men IN FAiTHFULNESS, suffer tribulation(S);

HOWEVER;

Scripture itself Acknowledges THERE SHALL BE "GREAT TRIBULATION" nearing the days of WHEN, Those Divided and Standing WITH thee Lord God, are SEPARATED FROM Those Divided and STANDING AGAINST thee Lord God.

Matt 24:

1. [21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

There is no "missing' week.
The LAST "WEEK", is SEVEN YEARS, and the Time of GREAT TRIBULATON such as was NOT sine the beginning of the world.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

... of the seed of Abraham, who also believed God, and did lived by faith.

Are you Hebrew? Jewish? Israel?

HOW you the seed of Abraham ?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Correct! Since the KoG was taken from the Jews, God cares not for its establishment as a nation, but rather only those individual Jews, who will come to Him through Jesus NOW, in His Age of Grace.

NOW ?

Scripture says that the Jews come through Jesus, DURING the GREAT TRIBUlATION, After God sends TEACHERS and Witnesses TO THEM.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Earburner]

Tribulation means anguish of heart, of great sorrow.
Even in a marriage between a christian and an unsaved spouse, who has gone over to "that spirit of antichrist", by believing in the theory of evolution, there is intense tribulation between the partners, as to how one should be living in this present world.
.
One is hasting for this world to be destroyed, while the other is hasting to save it.

 

[Earburner]

NOW ?

Scripture says that the Jews come through Jesus, DURING the GREAT TRIBUlATION, After God sends TEACHERS and Witnesses TO THEM.

Glory to God,
Taken

There are those who make stuff up, and then there those that believe it!
YES! NOW!! You and I, and every born again Christian, are those witnesses!
IT IS WE who come to THEM in the name of the Lord!
Mat. 23[39] For I say unto you, Ye shall not see (perceive) me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

 

[Earburner]

Are you Hebrew? Jewish? Israel?

HOW you the seed of Abraham ?

Glory to God,
Taken

Through faith in Jesus!
Gal. 3[6] Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
[7] Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

 

[Earburner]

You are in Error.

Every generation of Men IN FAiTHFULNESS, suffer tribulation(S);

HOWEVER;

Scripture itself Acknowledges THERE SHALL BE "GREAT TRIBULATION" nearing the days of WHEN, Those Divided and Standing WITH thee Lord God, are SEPARATED FROM Those Divided and STANDING AGAINST thee Lord God.

Matt 24:[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
There is no "missing' week.
The LAST "WEEK", is SEVEN YEARS, and the Time of GREAT TRIBULATON such as was NOT sine the beginning of the world.

Glory to God,
Taken

[24] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
[25] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two (69 weeks) weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
[26] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

[27] And he (Jesus) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week (1-week): and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
> 69 weeks + 1 week= 70 weeks.
The 70 weeks have been fulfilled.

 

[OzSpen]

Translation from Greek to English is not just about literal words, but requires spiritual discernment to fully comprehend the surrounding context.
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I repeat what I had said in a previous post:
"Therefore, that latter portion of verse14 describes that "great tribulation" is not isolated to ONLY Christians at the very end of God's Age of Grace, but rather all christians, in all generations, have suffered "great tribulation", ever since Pentecost!!"

Did you say in one of the above posts you don't know Greek grammar? I do and have taught NT Greek at College level.

 

[Earburner]

Did you say in one of the above posts you don't know Greek grammar? I do and have taught NT Greek at College level.

College level? Since you are far more knowledgeable than I in the Greek language, then you know that the surrounding context helps to choose the correct word choice in translation, of a verse in question. Not only that, you also know that in the literal word for word translation of Greek into English, the fluency of sentence structure must be rearranged, in order to provide a fluid conveyance of thoughts in English.

 

[Davy]

You have not YET figured out...
The "GREAT" Tribulation is ABOUT GODS ANGER...(which is displayed BY Gods WRATH!)
FOR DISBELIEF IN Christ Jesus!

You have not YET figured out...
God is NOT ANGRY toward MEN who "ARE" "IN" Christ.

You have NOT ONE Scripture of Evidence, FOR MEN "IN" Christ being APPOINTED to suffer Gods Wrath DURING the "GREAT" Tribulation.

Glory To God,
Taken

Our Heavenly Father and His Son have already figured it out for us. All we need do is heed... His Word of Truth.

And His Word of Truth is that His coming to gather His saints is not until after... the tribulation:

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV


Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV


So why... would you deny His Word of Truth there about the timing of His coming to gather His Church??

 

[Taken]

There are those who make stuff up, and then there those that believe it!
YES! NOW!! You and I, and every born again Christian, are those witnesses!
IT IS WE who come to THEM in the name of the Lord!
Mat. 23[39] For I say unto you, Ye shall not see (perceive) me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

I was speaking of THEE WITNESSES,
During the "GREAT TRIBULATION.

Ya sure Men IN CHRIST witness to others, JUST AS THE chosen Disciples of Jesus were sent to teach and preach and proclaim as Witnesses that Jesus the Christ Messiah.

^^ THAT WAS NOT during the GREAT TRIBULATION!

The GREAT TRIBULATION has NOT YET Occurred.

Listen to what the Disciples Taught about the COMING GREAT TRIBULATION...

Matt 24:
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Do you NOT comprehend, THE WHOLE WORLD was Destroyed with WATER...
And THE WHOLE WORLD shall AGAIN BE DESTROYED? You think that HAS ALREADY HAPPENED?

Learn; It is NOT Gentile Men Witnessing to JEWS IN Jerusalem,
During the GREAT TRIBULATION...
It is TWO WITNESSES God SENDS to WITNESS TO tHE Jews IN Jerusalem During
The GREAT TRIBULATION.

And THEY WITNESS for 3 1/2 " YEARS " !

No, You, Me, other Gentiles ARE NOT Gods WITNESSES DURING the GREAT TRIBULATION!

Rev 11
[3] And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Davy]

I was speaking of THEE WITNESSES,
During the "GREAT TRIBULATION.

Ya sure Men IN CHRIST witness to others, JUST AS THE chosen Disciples of Jesus were sent to teach and preach and proclaim as Witnesses that Jesus the Christ Messiah.

^^ THAT WAS NOT during the GREAT TRIBULATION!

The GREAT TRIBULATION has NOT YET Occurred.

Listen to what the Disciples Taught about the COMING GREAT TRIBULATION...

Matt 24:
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Do you NOT comprehend, THE WHOLE WORLD was Destroyed with WATER...
And THE WHOLE WORLD shall AGAIN BE DESTROYED? You think that HAS ALREADY HAPPENED?

Learn; It is NOT Gentile Men Witnessing to JEWS IN Jerusalem,
During the GREAT TRIBULATION...
It is TWO WITNESSES God SENDS to WITNESS TO tHE Jews IN Jerusalem During
The GREAT TRIBULATION.

And THEY WITNESS for 3 1/2 " YEARS " !

No, You, Me, other Gentiles ARE NOT Gods WITNESSES DURING the GREAT TRIBULATION!

Rev 11
[3] And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Glory to God,
Taken

You're just all over the place, not making a single coherent thought. Anyone can just quote Scripture out of the blue, and make meaningless statements.

And you don't understand about the two witnesses in Revelation 11 either.


Rev 11:3-4
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
KJV


Rev 1:20
20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
KJV

 

[Taken]

Our Heavenly Father and His Son have already figured it out for us. All we need do is heed... His Word of Truth.

All you need to do is heed...His Word of Truth?

Then WHY DON'T YOU?

Scripture IMPRESSES the importance of believers UNDERSTANDING the Word of God, "ACCORDING TO" "Gods Understanding" of His Own Word.

Your preaching and teaching is a mis-mash...
Seems according to YOU;
There is NO Great Tribulation...but that the Great Tribulation has already occurred...and in the END of these Days "Gentile Christians" have been Appointed to PREACH the Word of God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Our Heavenly Father and His Son have already figured it out for us. All we need do is heed... His Word of Truth.

And His Word of Truth is that His coming to gather His saints is not until after... the tribulation:

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV


Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV


So why... would you deny His Word of Truth there about the timing of His coming to gather His Church??

Why DO YOU MAKE CLAIMS OF DENIAL "FOR OTHERS" WHO HAVE NOT DENIED His Word of TRUTH?

Are you so arrogant to Fail to Understand, it is YOUR Claims I DENY....NOT the Lords Word.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Through faith in Jesus!
Gal. 3[6] Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
[7] Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Newsflash ... A point we agree on!

However I doubt you are in Understanding of the Signifiance.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

You're just all over the place, not making a single coherent thought. Anyone can just quote Scripture out of the blue, and make meaningless statements.

And you don't understand about the two witnesses in Revelation 11 either.


Rev 11:3-4
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
KJV


Rev 1:20
20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
KJV

LOL ~ I am well aware there are TWO witnesses and their Appointed Purpose, DURING the Great Tribulation.

I don't agree with Earburner, that Christ's Church will Be Witnessing TO ANYONE on Earth, during the Great Tribulation.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Davy]

All you need to do is heed...His Word of Truth?

Then WHY DON'T YOU?

Scripture IMPRESSES the importance of believers UNDERSTANDING the Word of God, "ACCORDING TO" "Gods Understanding" of His Own Word.

Your preaching and teaching is a mis-mash...
Seems according to YOU;
There is NO Great Tribulation...but that the Great Tribulation has already occurred...and in the END of these Days "Gentile Christians" have been Appointed to PREACH the Word of God.

Glory to God,
Taken

I love God's Word, and I keep to it, even when I find new things in It I don't yet understand. Then I ask Him about it, not man.

Like you, I used to listen to men's doctrines and was once terribly deceived by them, and learned that they don't care about my soul, but only a paycheck. Jesus called those hirelings (John 10).

Who is going to care about our own soul if we keep listening to men's doctrines instead of the simplicity in God's Word?

 

[Davy]

Why DO YOU MAKE CLAIMS OF DENIAL "FOR OTHERS" WHO HAVE NOT DENIED His Word of TRUTH?

Are you so arrogant to Fail to Understand, it is YOUR Claims I DENY....NOT the Lords Word.

Glory to God,
Taken

If you say you don't deny those Scriptures by our Lord Jesus, then why do you continually teach against them?

When you teach that Jesus comes to gather His Church prior to the tribulation, and that those left behind are Jews that come to Jesus during... the tribulation, i.e., Pre-trib's "tribulation saints" idea which is not... written of in God's Word, then you are teaching against those very Scriptures I posted.

The reason why I say this is because Jesus is talking to His Church right there in Matthew 24 and Mark 13, even the foundation of His Church per Ephesians 2. And He is forewarning them as to what they may expect to happen to them during the tribulation. He certainly is not... telling them they will escape it like the Pre-trib Rapture doctors teach.