What Do The Book of Daniel DECEIVERS Present?!?

[Bobby Jo]

If the shoe fits, then you can wear it.

It's your size, PUT IT ON. Be proud of your ignorance. Wear it like a badge. I'm sure people will be "impressed". You certainly do impress me with how ill informed a person can be ...

You're #1, (but it's a close contest between you, @Jay Ross and @Enoch111),
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

... there is only ONE little horn. ...

Daniel 7:20 and concerning the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up and before which three of them fell, the horn which had eyes and a mouth that spoke great things, and which seemed greater than its fellows.​

One, ten, eleven, -- numbers are too confusing to figure out. I give up. -- ONE!


Whew,
Bobby Jo

 

[Phoneman777]

It is plain as day that the he goat (Greece) attacked the ram, and broke its two horns, Medo Persia, and trampled it. The single horn of the he goat is Alexander the Great. He died and four horns grew in its place, each going in one of four directions. (four generals).

Yes, I agree.

THEN a little horn grows out of one of the four generals and takes over three directions, including Israel.

The evidence proves otherwise. The "them" out from which the Little Horn arises refers to "winds", not "horns". Syntax, context, noun-pronoun gender agreement, noun pronoun antecedent, etc., all point to the "winds" being the "them".

 

[CharismaticLady]

Yes, I agree.
The evidence proves otherwise. The "them" out from which the Little Horn arises refers to "winds", not "horns". Syntax, context, noun-pronoun gender agreement, noun pronoun antecedent, etc., all point to the "winds" being the "them".

So what does winds signify? Directions.

 

[Phoneman777]

Again you are combining two separate prophecies.

The one is amputated from the other, which means they coincide at a specific point: namely, the starting point, which is 457 B.C. Therefore, they are not separate; the shorter is part of the longer.
What dates are you referring to that the Romans set up their Sun God? You didn't say.[/QUOTE] 70 A.D. is when Titus' army surrounded Jerusalem and planted their Sun god standards in God's holy ground.

 

[Phoneman777]

No, you are wrong. The first vision was sealed before the second one began.

??? The second vision in chapter 9 of the 70 Weeks is given to explain the first vision ("mareh", which refers to the 2,300 days) of chapter 8 - we cannot escape that truth. Gabriel comes to explain the "vision" (mareh) which confused Daniel and immediately launches into the 70 Weeks being "amputated".

Amputated from what?

What is the only other contextual time period?

The answer is simple: the 2,300 Days.

We can't amputate 490 years from 6 1/3...but we certainly can from 2,300 years.

 

[Phoneman777]

"Amputated" seems a strange choice of words.

that's exaclty what it means in the Hebrew. "Chatak" The smaller 70 Weeks are "amputated" from the larger 2,300, because when Daniel was freaked out about prospect of 2,300 more years of bad news (let's be real - 6 1/3 more years of it would have been a walk in the park for Daniel) Gabriel is sent to clear up the confusion by explaining that 70 Weeks of that 2,300 Days (years) prophecy is for just his people and their city, which would see:

• the return of his people
• the rebuilding of the city and temple
• the arrival of Messiah
• the eventual destruction and scattering of his people again

Afterward, Daniel then understands the significance of all the SANCTUARY symbolism in chapter 8: that the Messiah would ascend as our Heavenly High Priest to officiate in the Heavenly Sanctuary until the 2,300 years expire, at which time He would begin cleansing it in preparation for the final climax of Earth's history.

It's got nothing to do with an obscure little Jewish uprising, seeing that Daniel's prophecies always start at the time of the vision and continue down to the end of time, do they not? Of course, as in the case of the "mareh".

 

[CharismaticLady]

The one is amputated from the other, which means they coincide at a specific point: namely, the starting point, which is 457 B.C. Therefore, they are not separate; the shorter is part of the longer.
What dates are you referring to that the Romans set up their Sun God? You didn't say.

70 A.D. is when Titus' army surrounded Jerusalem and planted their Sun god standards in God's holy ground.[/QUOTE]

You say one was amputated from the other. By whose authority?

 

[Bobby Jo]

Hmmmmmm, with all this "wisdom" and in the interest of HONESTY, I changed the Title of this Topic to better suit the discussions!

Bobby Jo

 

[Phoneman777]

So what does winds signify? Directions.

Yes. "Out of one of them (the four winds of heaven) came forth a Little Horn..." - the Western point of the compass, in which was Rome and from which the Little Horn papacy arose. Prophecy moves from East to West:

Lion (Babylon)
<<---<<

Bear (M.P.)
<<---<<​

Leopard (Greece)
<<---<<
Dragon-like Beast (Pagan Rome)
<<---<<
Ten Horns and Little Horn (barbarian predecessors to Europe among which arises the Papal Rome)
<<---<<<
2nd Beast of Revelation 13 (United States which as the sole remaining Superpower will force the entire world through militarism and economic sanction to bow down to the authority of the papacy in place of the authority of God)

To say that Antiochus is the Little Horn is to disrupt the movement of prophecy back East to the Seleucid region which was Eastern most.

 

[CharismaticLady]

70 A.D. is when Titus' army surrounded Jerusalem and planted their Sun god standards in God's holy ground.

This is what happens when you combine prophecies. The Romans burned and destroyed the temple in AD 70, they did not set up any altars to any Sun God there at that time.

But an altar was built to Zeus in the Jewish Temple called the abomination of desolation because they sacrificed a pig on the altar, totally defiling the temple. When was that. Again it was close to 7 years.

 

[Phoneman777]

You say one was amputated from the other. By whose authority?

"Seventy weeks are determined..."

חָתַךְ châthak, khaw-thak'; a primitive root; properly, to cut off, i.e. (figuratively) to decree:—determine.

Gabriel explained the meaning of the 2,300 Days "mareh" by stating the 70 Weeks are "cut off" from them, which could only mean that the 2,300 are not just days, but years, because we all know the 70 Weeks are 490 years.

 

[CharismaticLady]

"Seventy weeks are determined..."

חָתַךְ châthak, khaw-thak'; a primitive root; properly, to cut off, i.e. (figuratively) to decree:—determine.

That cutting off was the crucifixion, don't you agree?

 

[CharismaticLady]

"Seventy weeks are determined..."

חָתַךְ châthak, khaw-thak'; a primitive root; properly, to cut off, i.e. (figuratively) to decree:—determine.

Gabriel explained the meaning of the 2,300 Days "mareh" by stating the 70 Weeks are "cut off" from them, which could only mean that the 2,300 are not just days, but years, because we all know the 70 Weeks are 490 years.

Do you have a way to copy and paste the actual section of scripture that says what you are claiming? Try Biblegateway.com

 

[Phoneman777]

This is what happens when you combine prophecies. The Romans burned and destroyed the temple in AD 70, they did not set up any altars to any Sun God there at that time.

They most certainly planted their Sun God standards in the holy ground that ran for several furlongs out from the walls of the city, and covered the entire inside of the temple with the blood of humans - not pigs - by their Roman swords. Ezekiel says the most offensive of all abominations is Sun worship, placing the creation in stature above that of the Creator.

But an altar was built to Zeus in the Jewish Temple called the abomination of desolation because they sacrificed a pig on the altar, totally defiling the temple. When was that. Again it was close to 7 years.

Again, you can't cut off the 490 years from the 2,300 if you leave them as only 6 1/3 years long.

In making the 2,300 literal days, you are at a loss to explain how the 70 Weeks can be amputated from them. Gabriel's words make no sense at all. If we're going to be true to hermeneutics, we can't skip over that verse which plainly says the one is cut off from the other, especially if we fail to recognize it's impossible to amputate a giant whole from a speck.

 

[Phoneman777]

That cutting off was the crucifixion, don't you agree?

Except that Gabriel specifically said what is cut off are the "Seventy Weeks" which is a block of time, not a person. Later, He says Messiah is cut off, but in this verse, we're dealing with a revelation of time that is used to explain the 2,300 days which confused Daniel.

 

[Phoneman777]

Do you have a way to copy and paste the actual section of scripture that says what you are claiming? Try Biblegateway.com

Yes, but I thought it was clear: Daniel 9:24 KJV

 

[CharismaticLady]

They most certainly planted their Sun God standards in the holy ground that ran for several furlongs out from the walls of the city, and covered the entire inside of the temple with the blood of humans - not pigs - by their Roman swords. Ezekiel says the most offensive of all abominations is Sun worship, placing the creation in stature above that of the Creator.
Again, you can't cut off the 490 years from the 2,300 if you leave them as only 6 1/3 years long.

In making the 2,300 literal days, you are at a loss to explain how the 70 Weeks can be amputated from them. Gabriel's words make no sense at all. If we're going to be true to hermeneutics, we can't skip over that verse which plainly says the one is cut off from the other, especially if we fail to recognize it's impossible to amputate a giant whole from a speck.

You forget, I don't agree with the combination of two prophecies, especially since the first one was sealed. You can't add to it. Do you care that a pig was sacrifices on the altar to Zeus, and the total uprising was 6 1/3 years? You think it was no big deal but it was to the Jews who were fried alive on huge iron skillets.

 

[Enoch111]

Except that Gabriel specifically said what is cut off are the "Seventy Weeks" which is a block of time, not a person.

How do you say that when we clearly read "shall MESSIAH -- מָשִׁ֖יחַ (ma·shi·ach) -- be cut off but not for himself?

There is no question that Messiah is the Christ -- Jesus of Nazareth -- in this passage, and He was not crucified because of anything He had done. It is significant that Daniel uses this specific word מָשִׁ֖יחַ since the crucifixion of Christ was hundreds of years into the future. According to Brown-Driver-Briggs Messiah = Messianic prince.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Yes, but I thought it was clear: Daniel 9:24 KJV

You are trying to combine Daniel 8 and 9 together and you say Gabriel was involved. Please copy and paste the authority to amputate ??? these two prophecies together.

Answer this for me for another view. What do you think of the little horn out of 10 horns of Daniel 7, vs. the little horn out of the 4 from Daniel 8. Are they the same person? If so who is it. If not who are they.