CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
@Jay Ross and @ Enoch111
I've been talking to Phoneman777 about the 2300 day prophecy of Daniel 8. What is your take?
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What Do The Book of Daniel DECEIVERS Present?!?
- Thread starter Bobby Jo
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@Jay Ross and @ Enoch111
I've been talking to Phoneman777 about the 2300 day prophecy of Daniel 8. What is your take?
Media Persia conquer Babylon in 539 BC.
Decree to rebuild Jerusalem 457 BC., though the work never got started until 444 BC. One of those dates is the start date of 70 weeks prophecy.
Greece (Alexander the Great) conquers Media Persia during war from 334 BC to 331 BC.
Alexander dies, and kingdom is divided to his four generals, Ptolemy, Cassander, Seleucus, and Antigones. Out of Seleucus a little horn rose up and pushed in three directions, including the Glorious Land/Jerusalem. The little horn ruled his kingdom from 175 BC to 164 BC. torturing the Jews. The Jews revolted in 167 BC to 160 BC, just under 7 years. Broken down to days it measured 2300 days. The beginning date of the 2300 day prophecy cannot be 457 BC as it would end in 450 BC. while it was still in Persian rule. But the prophecy contains the take over by Greece, so to say that 457 BC, the start date for the 70 weeks prophecy is the same date for the 2300 day prophecy when they have absolutely nothing to do with each other is sssstttttrrrrreeeettttcccchhhhiiinnggg it.
CharismaticLady, you are on your own with your dates and understanding. And as for @Enoch111 and I having the same understandings, well then You have not understood my position as I am sure that Enoch111 would tell you that he disagrees with what I post on many grounds.
What I have previously posted is, that the Daniel_9:24 prophecy started in the year 494 BC based on the understanding that Christ was born, as generally agree by the scholars in the year 4BC, although the range of views is anywhere between 7BC to the end of 1 BC or the start of 1AD., although the evidence strongly points to 4 BC as the most likely year.
What my position on Daniel_7 is that the five Beasts, when including the little horn, are wicked fallen heavenly hosts, i.e. spirits, which are still alive and active today manifesting within different people groups and nations as their influence ebbs, flows and then wanes over time with the various people groups and nations. What we see is the manifestations of these beasts/wicked fallen heavenly hosts as they rise up out of the sea of humanity over time, for specific purposes before they fall back down into the sea of humanity to disappear, before a brand new manifestation of the respect beast rises up to replace the previous manifestation of that respect beast.
I have also posted that the length of time for the Gentiles trampling the sanctuary and the host is for 2,300 years and that this trampling started some time in the time period of 260-250 BC. I have also posted that the 2,300 years of the trampling of the sanctuary and the host will end in around 25 years time.
I have not read of any other person the same sort of comments concerning the End Time Prophecies.
I have also posted that God will not be transporting the Israelites back to the Land of Canaan, as many members of this forum post, but that as God gathers the righteous Israelites to Himself in around 25 years time to himself, that He will plant them into a fertile field and that He will teach them about His everlasting heavenly Kingdom, where they have been scattered to throughout the whole earth. I have gleaned this understand from the Hebrew Texts rather than from the English Translations which is forged around the flawed understanding that God is promising to show Abraham land that he will inherit instead of the whole earth, just as is promised to Jesus' disciples and followers today.
For us to have a very good discussion on God's prophecies re the latter days, we each have to be able to hear and understand what the other person is actually saying. If we are not able to do this then the discussion will collapse into the mire of misunderstanding.
Shalom
It's too funny. Kinda like watching an [ill advised] speeder crashing his vehicle; an [ill advised] guy draining his all his oil to see how far his car will drive before seizing; -- all those [ill advised] "stunts" you see on Youtube ...
Ya gotta laugh! LOL
Bobby Jo
Ya gotta laugh! LOL
Bobby Jo
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CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
I didn't say you two were on the same page, only that you both have a zeal for uncovering truth. You both gave me things to think about that I've never seen before. So whether either is truth, I thank you.
Exactly, you've studied all this on your own. Whether Enoch agrees with you, wasn't part of my "thank you" Or whether I agree with either of you, I feel a kinship, because only those who dig deep will ever find treasure.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
If you want to link the Judgement of the wicked fallen heavenly hosts in heaven, with the judgement of the kings of the earth, Isaiah_24:21-22, which happens at the same time, you have to understand what the link is between the kings of the earth and the wicked fallen heavenly hosts.
You have the trampling of the sanctuary and the hosts in heaven and on the earth happening at the same time.
We are informed when the judgement occurs in heaven, after the passing of a very long time period of 2,300 years. It ends when God turns again after the visitation of the idolatrous iniquities of the Israelite Fathers ends after the passing of approximately 2,000 plus years from the birth of Christ, and this event is confirmed in Hosea_6:1-3. Isaiah_61:4 also confirms this same time period when God once again turns to look favourably upon the Israelites once more. How ever, the finite time period in Isaiah has been deliberately hidden from view by the influence of Satan confusing the scholars because of the very long time periods in play.
Now, if you want to learn about the End Time prophecies and their timeframes, then you have to only turn to God's words on the subject matter and allow them to speak to you. The time of the remembering of Babylon by the world occurred in 1926 AD after the greatest turmoil of the earth began in 1914 with WW1. As Jeremiah, prophesied in Jer_50:39, using the same form of the language as found in Isa_61:4, he clearly tells us that Babylon will experience the same devastation and desolation as the Israelites will experience after 70 AD.
But scholars tend to focus on a small part of the scriptures and exclude any other scriptural passages that tend to have a similar word pattern or outcome as being relevant to their study of the chosen passage in their study. A very early flaw in their understanding of the respective passage will permeate through all of their studies and the context of other passages will be altered by the scholars to reflect the influence of that flawed understanding. The classical misunderstanding of Genesis 12:1 is that Abraham is not promised the earth as his future inheritance/possession, but that rather Abraham was promised the Land of Canaan as his inheritance and possession on his way down to the land of Canaan. The Hebrew word for "Earth" as found in 12:1 has been altered to "Land" and from then on the translations that we use have perpetuated this flawed understanding in the rest of the OT.
You have to discover the keys to be able to unlock these flaws for yourself as they go very much against the "acceptable traditions" of past and current scholars. Joel Richardson is one such "profit" motivated author who has not yet discovered the keys to unravel his misunderstandings. He is looking for a nation and a person to fulfil biblical prophecy in people and people groups/nations. His books only serve to misdirect the many people who read his books and blindly accept his premises.
Gen_15:16 was one of my early texts that help me to discover a key to unravelling the lies about the End Time Prophecies. Once I had discovered this key, other keys began to found which took my understanding down a very different path that I was on before this key discoveries were made by myself. To find these keys, I had to spend time on the available Biblical Meta data to find the keys to unravel the truth contained in God's word.
I CAN TELL YOU THESE KEYS, AND HOW TO FIND THEM, but unless you find them for yourself and believe these keys and put them into practice, you will be blown about by the direction of the strongest breeze of supposed understandings.
Good luck in your reading of the scriptures. One key is to discover all of the references to the second death from Genesis to revelation to see how important information has become hidden from us.
Shalom.
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Davy
Well-Known Member
So now you're gonna' introduce Jewish occult mysticism of the Kabbalah into the Book of Daniel?
That system used by the Jewish sages is a trap which the Canaanites that crept in among Judah presented to deceive the leaders of the people, and thus the people.
The years from the Book of Jeremiah that Daniel was pondering over were the 70 years God gave that the house of Judah would be in captivity to Babylon. That was the comparison of the prophecy Daniel was given with the 70 sevens. Simple, yet wisdom according to God's prophecies, not mans using numerology based on chapter numbers in the Psalms.
As I already pointed out to Phoneman777, 2300 days is 6 years and a little over 5 months, not 2,300 years (which would be bizarre).
Since Daniel's 70th week is a period of 7 years, this fits into that time frame, and in fact pertains to that time frame and the reign of the Antichrist. Everything in Daniel is connected, although it appears disjointed.
DANIEL 8 -- A REVELATION OF THE ANTICHRIST
"A LITTLE HORN" = THE ANTICHRIST
9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. [the "pleasant land" = Israel]
THE ANTICHRIST CHALLENGES THE HOLY ANGELS
10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. ["the host of heaven = holy angels]
THE ANTICHRIST SHUTS DOWN THE DAILY TEMPLE SACRIFICE AND CLAIMS TO BE GOD
11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down. ["the prince of the host" = the Lord Jesus Christ]
THE ANTICHRIST HAS AN ARMY AND PROSPERS FOR A SEASON
12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
THE TEMPLE WILL BE DESECRATED FOR ALMOST SEVEN YEARS
13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? 14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed....
THE ANTICHRIST = THE KING OF FIERCE COUNTENANCE
23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
THE ANTICHRIST'S POWER WILL BE SATANIC POWER
24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. ["the mighty and the holy people = the Tribulation saints who will be killed by him]
THE ANTICHRIST WILL STRONGLY OPPOSE CHRIST BUT WILL BE DESTROYED BY HIM
25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
I ain't seen none from either yet, -- except that Daniel 8 does say 2,300. And that's as close as anyone has gotten to any "TRUTH".
Whew,
Bobby Jo
Davy
Well-Known Member
I'd rather use ignorance and scoffing, but you beat me to it!
Bobby Jo
Numerology using the book and chapter numbers in the Psalms is like playing with a Ouija board.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
There are two "little horns." The one in Daniel 7 comes from 10 horns. The one in Daniel 8 comes from one of four horns. They are not the same person. I prefer Daniel 7's little horn as the future Antichrist. Daniel 8 and the 2300 evenings and mornings are 6.3 years, 167 BC to 160 BC and refers to the Jewish revolt against the little horn, Antiochus Epiphanes IV. He is a foreshadow of future antichrists. Titus being one in Daniel 9, when there was another Jewish revolt of 7 years from 66 AD to 73 AD, with 70 AD in the middle. I do believe there will be a future Antichrist that John speaks of. 1 John was written at the end of the first century, long after 70 AD.
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Yeah, I want to hear how this was fulfilled Scripturally for 1926. I don't care what was fulfilled that year Historically, I just want to hear how a Prophecy was fulfilled by itself for one point in History, which was 1926. Otherwise, any such Prophetic assignment could have been for ANY EVENT throughout world history. So to point to any HISTORICAL event might simply be throwing darts. Yeah, the dart landed on 1926 and the Ottoman Empire was divided, but we can't know that it wasn't for some Alexander, or Roman, or Crusade; or the 1991 Desert Storm; or the 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom; or the 2007 "Surge" in Iraq; or even some future event. It's all subjective, unless Scripture has a 1926 DATE.
Yeah, I'm not holding my breath,
Bobby Jo
Yes Bobby Jo, you are the one who does this and yet you do not seem to really know the prophecy that I am speaking of but you still claim great wisdom and the ability to reveal the fulfilment of God's prophecies.
The prophecy about Babylon being remembered before God, to give her the fierceness of His wrath did occur in 1926 as recorded in History, which is something that you do as well.
If, as you, say I have been simply throwing darts, then all that I have done then is follow your example of linking historical events to Biblical prophecy and using that date to indicate the particular event when it occurred. If I have been doing it wrong as you are suggesting, by following your example, then your pronouncements and dates must also be in error for the very same reasoning.
Remember the key to understand the actual prophecy has been hidden by the scholars because of an inability to reconcile the context of the use of this same word with its true meaning.
Oh the timespan of this prophecy is around 60-80 years for all of the mentioned event contained within it. You on the other hand are still looking for a single event to hang your hat upon.
You had better sharpen your pencil because you seem to be on another planet with your musings.
Shalom
You are right they are not a person, but they are both the same entity, a singular, wicked, fallen, heavenly host. If you look in the right quarter you will then begin to see and unravel the End Time prophecies.
Shalom
Davy
Well-Known Member
Like I said. Daniel appears to be disjointed, but there is only ONE little horn. He is simply shown coming out of the different empires which succeeded each other. Which tells us that the Antichrist was anticipated a long time ago. The ten horns come out of the former Roman empire (ten nations from around the Mediterranean). The mouth speaking great things (actually blasphemies) is consistent throughout.
COMING OUT OF THE FORMER SELEUCID EMPIRE
And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
COMING OUT OF THE FORMER GRECIAN EMPIRE
Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven. 9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land... Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
COMING OUT OF THE FORMER ROMAN EMPIRE
I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
All these empires succeeded each other and all controlled Palestine. And that is the key to understanding why they all show the Little Horn.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
I used to believe that to, but these revolts in history are prophesied; that is what was freaking out Daniel. Even Daniel 9:27 is the one week of the Jewish revolt of 66 AD to 73 AD - one week, and in the middle of the week (70 AD) the temple was destroyed. Why all one week? They are paradigms to the coming Antichrist.
I've talked to so many, I can't keep what all of you believe straight. Lets see what we agree on.
What dates do you see are the 2300 day prophecy of Daniel 8?
Who is the prince in Daniel 9:26?
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