WHAT!!!!
Did you really say that????
So you just throw out "as wrong" the chunk of scriptures that 'you' dont like?
Grailhunter posted two lists of verses...so you make void the list that you don't like...as it must be wrong, because both can't be right!!!! Wow!
So if you can freely dismiss one of the list of verse...how can you possibly say that you "Believe the bible"...you obviously don't!!!
You can't have it
both ways.
Of course both list of verses is correct.
It is once again a case of - ' which end of the horse are you describing'
Where are you standing?
The answer obviously is BOTH are correct.
No one can cherry pick verses and build a 'doctrine ' that
they like on it.
We have to take the whole...or throw out the lot.
As I was saying to someone just today....
<Quote-
All these silly argument come because one is speaking from the
condition of the Christian and one is speaking from the
position of the Christian in Christ. But the answer is BOTH, not 'Either V Or '....
Some can't even see both in the word...they just stick to their favourite cherry picked verses and argue from that point.
It does make a person wonder what kind of "teachers" they sat under!!!! Yikes!
But no one can really blame our teachers and old pastors ...the responsibility is still on us , to '
search and find if these things be'..
The Holy Spirit is still the best 'opener of God's Word',.. if and when we get quiet enough before Him.
One list of verses is from the perspective of our
condition ( as Paul says in
Romans 7 ) "condition"
"O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? "
..and the other list is from the perspective is our
position in Christ.
where Paul says..
"I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."
And then he goes on into
the victory of our position , living in Roams 8.
....H
P.S. *A reason why I do NOT quote a lot of scripture... anyone can argue anything by cherry picking their favourite verses to argue
their point.,..
Using scriptures to argue with is pointless.
Hi BG,
If you've been reading along, I think you must have read that the question of eternal security has been going on since even before Jesus was born.
You've also heard me say many times that our doctrine does not save us.
Jesus saves us.
BUT,,, that is correct - both sides cannot be right.
Either we CANNOT EVER lose our salvation
or
It is POSSIBLE to lose our salvation.
How could they both be right? I don't read anything about position in the bible.
This is a term made up by man. We can't be POSITIONALLY saved in Christ
AND be living a life of sin as Paul describes in many passages beginning in Romans,,,I'm sure you also know the scriptures; there's lists of things we cannot do in every epistle of his.
So it would seem to me that our salvation is based on reality....on our condition.
I NEVER said we're not forgiven for sins we repent of....
As to cherry picking...it's not correct that this term be used.
I know the entire bible (except for Revelation and I've forgotten a good chunk of the O.T.) and hope that my time here helps me to remember everything.
We pick verses that support our position....if we don't use scripture, then we're only stating our own opinion. Quoting verses is good for those reading along and for discussion.
Of course different persons understand verses differently.
This is because we each want to be our own theologian.
I'm not my own theologian....I've learned from two churches and depend
on what I've learned.
Paul himself says that we are not to continue in sin so that grace may abound.
It seems like common sense to me.
Also, I find on these forums that if a person just says one thing a little off,,,they're branded as believing one never sins. This is also wrong. We sin, but it has been taken care of by God from the beginning of time.
Do you believe the moral law is still in effect?
If so, what's different about the New Covenant and the Mosaic Covenant?
(The answer is in Romans 8, which you've said is positional)
You said this above:
"I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."
That sounds very much like you're condoning sin!
I know you're not...but read it again.
With your mind you serve God...
But with the flesh you serve the law of sin.
What would a new Christian think by reading this?