Galatians 5

[justbyfaith]

@Grailhunter,

Why don't you tell us the reason why you switched from utilizing the kjv and moved over to the nasb when it came to relating certain scriptures (about why we cannot sin).

Is it not because the case is more powerful in the kjv?

 

[justbyfaith]

1 John 3:9 tells us clearly in the kjv; and also 1 John 3:6 w/ 1 John 2:17 (compare to Hebrews 10:14),

That the practical outworking of sin will be eradicated from our lives if we are born again of the Holy Spirit.

I know that I am not there yet; unless the Lord did the work in me this morning (I did have an extensive time of prayer in which I repented to God for some things that I have not been doing).

The fact that I have sinned in even my recent past does not mean that the Lord is incapable of "destroying the works of the devil" in my life, even setting me free.

It is a matter of surrender.

 

[Davy]

I noticed that you moved the goal posts. That is not the sign of an honest conversation.

False accusations again.

You quoted, and I called you on Galatians 5:18 ...

[Gal 5:18 NASB] 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Compare...

Gal 5:16
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulful the lust of the flesh.
KJV

Gal 5:18
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
KJV


Paul left no room there for what you're trying to add. There is no involvement by God to force us to walk in The Spirit.

We have to choose to be led of The Spirit. It means listening to The Holy Spirit that teaches us, IF... we will listen. No believer is perfect like Jesus, so we will slip up at times and not always do what The Spirit urges us. Refuse to heed The Holy Spirit enough, and those little urges will begin to go away. God will not be mocked.

 

[GodsGrace]

I don’t think that I dislike answering you.
I think we tend to talk past one another, so our conversations are not very productive, but I have nothing against communicating with you.

We don't speak past each other...you just don't care for what I have to say.

Where does scripture say that?

Where does scripture say that we CHOOSE to be saved?

Romans 6:16
16Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

It states that we PRESENT OURSELVES....
That sounds like a choice and libertarian free will to me.
God does not drag us into obeying HIM....
we PRESENT OURSELVES.

2 Timothy 2:15
15Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.

We are to PRESENT OURSELVES approved .....
God does not force us to do anything.
He loves us freely and wants us to return that love freely.
The N.T. is full of these verses.

What about ... [John 15:16, 19 NASB] 16 "You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and [that] your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. ... 19 "If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.

In John 15:16 Jesus is specifically speaking about the Apostles. Jesus CHOSE THE APOSTLES for a specific ministry. God CAN choose certain persons for very specific reasons....but this is not generally done. We are free to choose Him or not.

Also see John 6:70
John 6:70
Jesus answered them, "Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!"


Also see John 13:18
John 13:18
I am not speaking about all of you; I know whom I have chosen. But this is to fulfill the Scripture: 'The one who eats bread with Me has lifted up his heel against Me.'


Again, even here, Jesus is speaking about the Apostles,,,Judas being one of them.
This is clear for anyone to see, that WANTS to see.
Jesus is speaking about the Apostles.

A half truth. I believe that people are free to choose, but because of our fallen nature we will with 100% accuracy choose for sin and against God. I also believe that the Bible teaches this in many places and nowhere teaches that men are capable of pleasing God without the supernatural help of God (the heart of flesh replacing the heart of stone).

You always want scripture.
Where's yours?

If we choose sin and against God every time (100%), then you're saying that if we DO NOT choose sin...GOD IS FORCING US to choose HIM.
Just think about that...no scripture necessary.

John 3:16 is the perfect verse, but you don't accept it at face value.
FOR WHOEVER believes in the Son....

John 3:19-21
He who PRACTICES THE TRUTH COMES to the light...
He COMES TO THE LIGHT,,,he is not dragged there by God.

Verse please.


Verse please.
John 10:29 says that God the Father gave the sheep to Jesus, not that the sheep did not choose Jesus. Furthermore, John 10:26 specifically states that the reason that they don’t believe is BECAUSE they are not His sheep. So God giving the sheep to Jesus empowers belief, rather than the choice of the sheep being the deciding factor.

God the Father gave the sheep to Jesus?
Right...based on them accepting the conditions to want to be saved.

In another verse it says that NO ONE can come to the Father except THROUGH JESUS.
John 14:6

So is this a conflict in scripture?
In one place it says the Father gives the person TO JESUS.
In another place it says JESUS gives the person to the Father.

Which is it do you suppose?
Is there a way to reconcile the two?

Verse please.
Galatians 5:18 says we are “LED BY THE SPIRIT”, not that we choose to follow if we feel like it.

As you yourself have said.
BEFORE salvation we were led by satan.
AFTER salvation we are led by the spirit.

Just as we could do good deeds when led by satan
we could still sin when led by the Spirit.

So are you saying God leads us TO SIN?

The fact is that we are LED by the spirit....
whether or not we want to follow is up to us, at every moment of the day.

If you don't believe this,,,you make God to be the one that makes us sin.


Now, please don't throw new verses at me unless it's to prove a point.
Please respond to the ones above which are your verses and my reply to them.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Grailhunter]

@Grailhunter,

Why don't you tell us the reason why you switched from utilizing the kjv and moved over to the nasb when it came to relating certain scriptures (about why we cannot sin).

Is it not because the case is more powerful in the kjv?

No not at all. Entertainment value. Mix it up a little.

 

[atpollard]

Now, please don't throw new verses at me unless it's to prove a point.
Please respond to the ones above which are your verses and my reply to them.

Fair enough.

Where does scripture say that we CHOOSE to be saved?

Romans 6:16
16Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

It states that we PRESENT OURSELVES....
That sounds like a choice and libertarian free will to me.
God does not drag us into obeying HIM....
we PRESENT OURSELVES.

Context, context, context ...

Romans 6:15-19
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone [as] slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in [further] lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.​

A SLAVE does not CHOOSE whom his/her master is. That is the nature a slavery. A slave is purchased and becomes the property of a new master. We were BORN slaves to sin ...

• Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. [John 8:34]

We are purchased by God ...

• For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body. [1Co 6:20]

(To be continued ... the wife needs me now)

 

[Mal'ak]

False accusations again.



Compare...

Gal 5:16
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulful the lust of the flesh.
KJV

Gal 5:18
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
KJV


Paul left no room there for what you're trying to add. There is no involvement by God to force us to walk in The Spirit.

We have to choose to be led of The Spirit. It means listening to The Holy Spirit that teaches us, IF... we will listen. No believer is perfect like Jesus, so we will slip up at times and not always do what The Spirit urges us. Refuse to heed The Holy Spirit enough, and those little urges will begin to go away. God will not be mocked.

That is the problem, many Christians read "ye are not under the law", but completely miss "IF YE BE LED OF THE SPIRIT". As you said, none of us are perfect and will not always be led by the spirit and walk in the spirit, so therefore we are still under the law. There is no law in Heaven for the Angels or the Saints, because in their spiritual bodies they can be perfect and have no sin so are not under the law the humans are under.

James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

James 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

 

[atpollard]

2 Timothy 2:15
15Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.

We are to PRESENT OURSELVES approved .....
God does not force us to do anything.
He loves us freely and wants us to return that love freely.
The N.T. is full of these verses.

Context ...

[2 Timothy 2:8-19]
8 Remember Jesus Christ, risen from the dead, descendant of David, according to my gospel, 9 for which I suffer hardship even to imprisonment as a criminal; but the word of God is not imprisoned. 10 For this reason I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen, so that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus [and] with [it] eternal glory. 11 It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him; 12 If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us; 13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself. 14 Remind [them] of these things, and solemnly charge [them] in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless [and leads] to the ruin of the hearers. 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. 16 But avoid worldly [and] empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness, 17 and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 [men] who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness."​

Justification vs Sanctification.
First note God’s part in our salvation ...

• We did not choose, we were CHOSEN (v.10)
• We were chosen to OBTAIN salvation in Christ and eternal glory (v.10)
• This promise is TRUSTWORTHY for those that actually died with Him (v.11) but it is not true for those that did not die with Him. (The Unsaved) (v.12)
• The Chosen can stumble, but they cannot fall (v.13) because Christ is faithful to His Chosen even when His Chosen are unfaithful to him.
• THEREFORE we, the CHOSEN, should make every effort, now that they are chosen, to be even more faithful (because they are loved and forgiven even when they are unfaithful) (v.15)
• Arguing with heretics brings no glory to God (v.14, v16-18)
• BECAUSE we belong to the Lord (a condition that we cannot change) we are to abstain from WICKEDNESS (v.19) ... we are not earning a CHOOSING that was not ours and we are not maintaining a LOVE that cannot be lost (because God is all faithful).

We are to PRESENT OURSELVES approved .....
God empowers us to do what is right.

• "... so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God." [John 3:21]

He loves us freely and enables us to return that love freely.

• "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.” [Eze 36:26]

The N.T. is full of these verses.

 

[GodsGrace]

Fair enough.


Context, context, context ...

Romans 6:15-19
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone [as] slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in [further] lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.​

A SLAVE does not CHOOSE whom his/her master is. That is the nature a slavery. A slave is purchased and becomes the property of a new master. We were BORN slaves to sin ...

A, sometimes I wish we could really treat each other like intelligent human beings.

You use the word "slavery" to try to make a point about context.
There's no problem with context here. You just need to be honest....
As you very well know,,,we are NOT slaves to God....we are His friends,
His sons...

Galatians says this....
Galatians 3:26
. 26For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

2 Corinthians 6:17-18
17“Therefore, COME OUT FROM THEIR MIDST AND BE SEPARATE,” says the Lord.
“AND DO NOT TOUCH WHAT IS UNCLEAN;
And I will welcome you.

18“And I will be a father to you,
And you shall be sons and daughters to Me,”
Says the Lord Almighty.

First of fall, God says we will be His sons and daughters..
Second, notice that we are asked to "come out from their midst and be separate"....

We are ASKED to come out from among them....we are not told that God will be dragging us out. Please read before and after to get the context...you'll find that I ALWAYS consider context.

God asked NOT TO TOUCH what is unclean.
Why would He ask anything of us if it's up to HIM to make us do what HE wants us to do?

The word slave is used to show WHO we serve.
Before we served satan...and thus were not even truly free.
NOW we serve God, and are truly free...
As John proclaimed:
John 8:32 JESUS SAID.
32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”

The truth is that God sets us free from the bondage to satan and sin.
The truth is in God's word IF we follow it.

However, as I'm certain that you know, we are not slaves to God but are His sons.

• Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. [John 8:34]

We are purchased by God ...

• For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body. [1Co 6:20]

(To be continued ... the wife needs me now)

You won't get an argument from me here!

 

[GodsGrace]

That is the problem, many Christians read "ye are not under the law", but completely miss "IF YE BE LED OF THE SPIRIT". As you said, none of us are perfect and will not always be led by the spirit and walk in the spirit, so therefore we are still under the law. There is no law in Heaven for the Angels or the Saints, because in their spiritual bodies they can be perfect and have no sin so are not under the law the humans are under.

James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

James 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

Hi M,
Welcome to the forum.

What do you mean by the law?

As born again Christians we are not under the law but under grace.
This does NOT mean that we are not to obey God.
God has always wanted our obedience.

We are now under grace....
Purchased back from satan by Jesus...
This would fall under the ransom theory of atonement...

 

[GodsGrace]

Context ...

[2 Timothy 2:8-19]
8 Remember Jesus Christ, risen from the dead, descendant of David, according to my gospel, 9 for which I suffer hardship even to imprisonment as a criminal; but the word of God is not imprisoned. 10 For this reason I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen, so that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus [and] with [it] eternal glory. ​

The N.T. speaks of the elect and it speaks of the chosen.
At times the elect means the Hebrews/Jews through whom salvation was announced and through whom God revealed Himself.

At times it just plainly means the elect,,,,the chose,,,,US, the born again believers. In this case it means us....but what does it mean to be chosen?
We are chosen according to God's plan from the beginning of time.
We are chosen to be born again IN CHRIST.
We are the elect of God because we believe...
but of our own free will.

Paul will endure what he must endure for both those already chosen and those that will be chosen in the future...again-based on the acceptance of God's conditions.
John 3:16 is one of them.
John 3:36 is another one.
acceptance and obedience.

If GOD chose US, literally as you believe, these verses would not have been necessary.

11 It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him; 12 If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us; 13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

Be careful here A...
you believe in eternal security...
The above proves eternal security is false.

verse 12 ...IF WE DENY HIM,,,,He will also deny us.

Verse 13...God is always faithful to HIMSELF...to HIS PLANS for our salvation.
He will never go back on His word.

14 Remind [them] of these things, and solemnly charge [them] in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless [and leads] to the ruin of the hearers. 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. 16 But avoid worldly [and] empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness, 17 and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 [men] who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness."

Agreed. We are to PRESENT OURSELVES approved....I believe this is what I had posted.​

Justification vs Sanctification.
First note God’s part in our salvation ...

MY REPLIES IN BLUE.

• We did not choose, we were CHOSEN (v.10)
• This has been answered. If we're chosen, that makes the N.T. not be reliable because it does not teach that we are chosen. One verse does not a doctrine make.

i refer you to 2 Peter 3:9 God wants everyone to be saved.
John 7:17 It says we choose to do the will of God.
Joshua 24:15 We are asked to choose whom we wish to serve.
Mark 8:34 Jesus tells the crowd that whoever WANTS to follow Him must pick up their cross.

Romans 1:10 Why pray if everything is already predetermined by God?
Romans 13:2 Why would we be told to NOT do something if God predestines what we are to do and not do?

Romans 10:9-10 To be saved we are to proclaim with the mouth and believe in our heart. I read no where that God makes us believe, but that we are to have faith on our own.

There's much more....

• We were chosen to OBTAIN salvation in Christ and eternal glory (v.10)
• This promise is TRUSTWORTHY for those that actually died with Him (v.11) but it is not true for those that did not die with Him. (The Unsaved) (v.12)

Both true. We were chosen from the beginning of time to be saved through Christ. HOW to be saved....NOT WHO would be saved.

• The Chosen can stumble, but they cannot fall (v.13) because Christ is faithful to His Chosen even when His Chosen are unfaithful to him.

Ooops. You're getting 2 Timothy all mixed up. Think about verses 12 and 13 well. If YOU are right, we have a conflict right there in two sentences.
God remains faithful to HIMSELF and what HE HAS PROMISED.
He is NOT required to remain faithful to US if we abandon him and deny him as verse 12 states.

And if we stumble, we fall.

Hebrews 3:12-19 This speaks of falling away. (in those exact words BTW)
Revelation 2:4-5 This speaks of falling away. " "
Romans 11:19-22 This speaks of falling away. " "

• THEREFORE we, the CHOSEN, should make every effort, now that they are chosen, to be even more faithful (because they are loved and forgiven even when they are unfaithful) (v.15 9

• Arguing with heretics brings no glory to God (v.14, v16-18)

Are you calling me a heretic?
I hope not because you are the one that is not orthodox,,,not me.
What I beieve has been in existence since the beginning of the church.
What you believe has been around since the reformation in 1,500 AD

• BECAUSE we belong to the Lord (a condition that we cannot change) we are to abstain from WICKEDNESS (v.19) ... we are not earning a CHOOSING that was not ours and we are not maintaining a LOVE that cannot be lost (because God is all faithful).

Not sure what you're meaning here...
However, I did show you above that salvation can be lost.

We are to PRESENT OURSELVES approved .....
God empowers us to do what is right.

• "... so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."John 3:21

He loves us freely and enables us to return that love freely.

• "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.” [Eze 36:26]

The N.T. is full of these verses.

Agreed.
As long as we agree that we give God permission to get a new heart by proclaiming our love for Him as in Romans 10:9-10

Revelation 3:20
Jesus stands at the door and KNOCKS.....
WE have to let Him in.

 

[Mal'ak]

Hi M,
Welcome to the forum.

What do you mean by the law?

As born again Christians we are not under the law but under grace.
This does NOT mean that we are not to obey God.
God has always wanted our obedience.

We are now under grace....
Purchased back from satan by Jesus...
This would fall under the ransom theory of atonement...

What does it mean to Obey God, if not to follow the Word of God... the law? Does God come to your dreams, give you daily instruction of his plan for your day, and then you do it?

We are under Grace, but Grace does not mean to spit in God's face daily and think "I'm under Grace, there is nothing God can do to me now!"

1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
1 Peter 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

The idea of "all you need to do is believe" is not what the Word of God preaches, but that this life in the flesh is a "trial of your faith". But it is not automatic, as we are told in verse 7 "MIGHT BE found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ". If you prove your faith by works and obedience of his law, then when Jesus returns you will receive "the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls".

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

From 1 Peter 1:8 we are told "Whom having not seen, ye love"; but what does it mean to love Jesus Christ? We are told the answer in John, if you say you love Jesus you will keep my words...the Word of God...the Law.

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Matthew 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Matthew 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Jesus tells us himself, the basics that must be followed to "enter into life", is that you "keep the commandments". He did not say have faith in me, he did not say Grace, he did not say it was preordained...Jesus Christ said "keep the commandments". If you want to be even holier, then you sell all you have and live a life dedicated to the Father. Do not have a job, do not get married or have kids, do not have any money, do not have a house or car, just live only in God's service. That is not something we are all called to do to that extreme, but the basics that must be followed, "keep the commandments"....unless Jesus is a liar.

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Now from Matthew 19, many will try to use a cop out and say 'Jesus was just talking to the Jews, not Christians'. But Paul says the same thing in Romans, where he tells us "he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law", By following the Law you are showing you love your neighbor and have fulfilled the law. So John tells us if you love Jesus you will obey the law, and Paul tells us if you love your neighbor you will obey the law.

Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

"Till Heaven and Earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law....whosoever there shall break one of these least comments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven". So Jesus is telling you...GodsGrace….directly to your soul as I share scripture, if you continue to break the law and tell others not to obey the law you...GodsGrace...will be least in Heaven. Believing in grace alone will probably not send you to Hell, depending how far you take it and you are not willfully sinning and acting vile, but it will be known for all eternity for all those in Heaven to know....This man is least in Heaven, because he taught falsely that everyone should reject God's law.

 

[GodsGrace]

What does it mean to Obey God, if not to follow the Word of God... the law? Does God come to your dreams, give you daily instruction of his plan for your day, and then you do it?

We are under Grace, but Grace does not mean to spit in God's face daily and think "I'm under Grace, there is nothing God can do to me now!"

1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
1 Peter 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

The idea of "all you need to do is believe" is not what the Word of God preaches, but that this life in the flesh is a "trial of your faith". But it is not automatic, as we are told in verse 7 "MIGHT BE found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ". If you prove your faith by works and obedience of his law, then when Jesus returns you will receive "the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls".

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

From 1 Peter 1:8 we are told "Whom having not seen, ye love"; but what does it mean to love Jesus Christ? We are told the answer in John, if you say you love Jesus you will keep my words...the Word of God...the Law.

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Matthew 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Matthew 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Jesus tells us himself, the basics that must be followed to "enter into life", is that you "keep the commandments". He did not say have faith in me, he did not say Grace, he did not say it was preordained...Jesus Christ said "keep the commandments". If you want to be even holier, then you sell all you have and live a life dedicated to the Father. Do not have a job, do not get married or have kids, do not have any money, do not have a house or car, just live only in God's service. That is not something we are all called to do to that extreme, but the basics that must be followed, "keep the commandments"....unless Jesus is a liar.

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Now from Matthew 19, many will try to use a cop out and say 'Jesus was just talking to the Jews, not Christians'. But Paul says the same thing in Romans, where he tells us "he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law", By following the Law you are showing you love your neighbor and have fulfilled the law. So John tells us if you love Jesus you will obey the law, and Paul tells us if you love your neighbor you will obey the law.

Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

"Till Heaven and Earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law....whosoever there shall break one of these least comments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven". So Jesus is telling you...GodsGrace….directly to your soul as I share scripture, if you continue to break the law and tell others not to obey the law you...GodsGrace...will be least in Heaven. Believing in grace alone will probably not send you to Hell, depending how far you take it and you are not willfully sinning and acting vile, but it will be known for all eternity for all those in Heaven to know....This man is least in Heaven, because he taught falsely that everyone should reject God's law.

Gee. I think I agree with you...
but instead of jumping at what I asked...
Why not answer my question??

What does THE LAW mean to you?

Also, you write too much....
Could you shrink it down and could you not make it personal?
That would be nice.

 

[bbyrd009]

@Grailhunter,

Why don't you tell us the reason why you switched from utilizing the kjv and moved over to the nasb when it came to relating certain scriptures (about why we cannot sin).

Is it not because the case is more powerful in the kjv?

pretty obvious that all that has been done there is the very most gratuitous interp of "cannot" has been widely accepted, widely meaning hypocrites? Surely something like "dare not" would be a much better fit with the half of the Bible that that would then be in agreement with?

 

[Grailhunter]

pretty obvious that all that has been done there is the very most gratuitous interp of "cannot" has been widely accepted, widely meaning hypocrites? Surely something like "dare not" would be a much better fit with the half of the Bible that that would then be in agreement with?

Not good understanding of the island talk...no offense intended...would you mine rephrasing that statement? Please and thank you.

 

[bbyrd009]

Not good understanding of the island talk...no offense intended...would you mine rephrasing that statement? Please and thank you.

well, we hear "...cannot sin" a certain (gratuitous) way, when "betternot sin" is likely more in line with the rest of Scripture? "Cannot" can be read two ways, iow?

 

[justbyfaith]

The N.T. is full of these verses.

We would all love to be armed and dangerous (to the devil)...so please share them with us.

 

[atpollard]

A, sometimes I wish we could really treat each other like intelligent human beings.

You use the word "slavery" to try to make a point about context.
There's no problem with context here. You just need to be honest....
As you very well know,,,we are NOT slaves to God....we are His friends,
His sons...

Galatians says this....
Galatians 3:26
. 26For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

2 Corinthians 6:17-18
17“Therefore, COME OUT FROM THEIR MIDST AND BE SEPARATE,” says the Lord.
“AND DO NOT TOUCH WHAT IS UNCLEAN;
And I will welcome you.

18“And I will be a father to you,
And you shall be sons and daughters to Me,”
Says the Lord Almighty.

First of fall, God says we will be His sons and daughters..
Second, notice that we are asked to "come out from their midst and be separate"....

We are ASKED to come out from among them....we are not told that God will be dragging us out. Please read before and after to get the context...you'll find that I ALWAYS consider context.

God asked NOT TO TOUCH what is unclean.
Why would He ask anything of us if it's up to HIM to make us do what HE wants us to do?

The word slave is used to show WHO we serve.
Before we served satan...and thus were not even truly free.
NOW we serve God, and are truly free...
As John proclaimed:
John 8:32 JESUS SAID.
32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”

The truth is that God sets us free from the bondage to satan and sin.
The truth is in God's word IF we follow it.

However, as I'm certain that you know, we are not slaves to God but are His sons.

You won't get an argument from me here!

I can’t argue with you because only YOU can speak for yourself and I can only speak for myself. I am a child of God and I am a friend of Christ ... because God says so. For my part I was a slave of sin and death and God laid claim to me as surely as He laid claim to Saul on the road to Damascus. At that moment I quite literally became a slave to God ... a ‘bondi’ [Exodus 21:5-6] ... trading one gang affiliation for another.

So nothing you say can trump the reality of my past. Romans 6 says SLAVES and I believe that it means SLAVES.
“Amazing grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me. I once was lost, but now I’m found, was blind but now I see.” (Not about what WE chose.)

 

[atpollard]

Be careful here A...
you believe in eternal security...
The above proves eternal security is false.

verse 12 ...IF WE DENY HIM,,,,He will also deny us.

Who denies Jesus?

[John 3:18-21 NLT] 18 "There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God's one and only Son. 19 And the judgment is based on this fact: God's light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. 20 All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. 21 But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants."

• Deniers: do not believe ... have already been judged ... do evil ... hate the light (God) ... refuse to go near the light (God)
• Confessors: believe in Him ... face NO judgement ... do what is right ... come to the light.

[John 10:25-31 NLT] 25 Jesus replied, "I have already told you, and you don't believe me. The proof is the work I do in my Father's name. 26 But you don't believe me because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me, 29 for my Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than anyone else. No one can snatch them from the Father's hand. 30 The Father and I are one." 31 Once again the people picked up stones to kill him.

• Deniers: do not believe ... because they are not Jesus’ sheep (not given by the Father) ... want to kill Jesus
• Confessors: are Jesus’ sheep (given by the Father) ... listen to Jesus ... are known by Jesus ... follow Jesus ... are given eternal life (will never perish) ... safe in God’s hand.

[1 Corinthians 12:3 NLT] 3 So I want you to know that no one speaking by the Spirit of God will curse Jesus, and no one can say Jesus is Lord, except by the Holy Spirit.

• One who truly confesses Jesus as Lord will not deny and one that denies the Lordship of Christ will never truly confess. It is the saved and the damned ... the Elect and the Reprobate ... that are being compared. It is not two types of children of God indwelt with the Holy Spirit that are being compared in 2 Timothy 2:12. Otherwise the phrases before and after directly contradict the meaning of the center phrase. How can God both remain faithful even if we we are unfaithful and at the same time deny us if we deny Him?

 

[bbyrd009]

ah, that would be profession i guess, the way you mean it anyway, sorry