Is there salvation outside the Catholic Church?

[Philip James]

A priest in a different town that comes from Argentina is aghast that no one reads the bible here.
Sometimes he asks questions at Mass and he's not liked for this.

My diocese has been blessed with priests from Nigeria, not all appreciate there frank sermons...
But they are on fire! Nothing like being on the front lines to purify the Church.

Praise God for those holy men and women, who in the face of men who would kill them while they gathered and worshipped, continue to live the Faith!

Peace be with you!

 

[amadeus]

I won't be meeting him unless I go to his church. He's not in the circle of priests I know.
I used to have a stamp collection in NY. I left it with my son when I came here. No upside down flying planes,,,but they were beautiful and I liked them. I had a VERY BIG book chock full.

Good Memories are what we're left with.

One of my incentives to collect came from that ex-marine who was in charge of the altar boys. He was also a special education teacher in the elementary school I attended. He had beautiful album of all stamps issued by Vatican City of which I was always envious [slap my hand for envy].

My own collection now exceeds 100,000 world-wide stamps, but I only sell them now. I've been doing that for several years but have only just begun to make a dent in the numbers. I still enjoy it and am fully satisfied just sorting and mounting them to sell. No riches involved but it provides a little pocket money once or twice a year when the Stamp Club sends me a check. If I had one child or grandchild interested I would leave the collection to him/her when I died... but alas while all of them did it for a while, not one collector in my family remains, but me.

 

[Philip James]

PJ,
I live in Italy.
I'm telling you what is going on here.
I'm telling you THEY ARE NOT being instructed.
It's not necessarily that they WANT to serve...
One does not learn by observation.

And I'm not hard on the little ones.
Do you see my avatar?
What do you think it means?

Ah, you're being hard on the pastors for lack of instruction! Good!

As one who grew up 'catechized' in the disaster that Vatican II interpretations caused in Canada, all I can say is thank God for JPII whipping us back into order...

Have they forgotten him so soon in Italy?

Peace!

 

[amadeus]

My diocese has been blessed with priests from Nigeria, not all appreciate there frank sermons...
But they are on fire! Nothing like being on the front lines to purify the Church.

Praise God for those holy men and women, who in the face of men who would kill them while they gathered and worshipped, continue to live the Faith!

Peace be with you!

My experience among many Protestants is similar to yours. There are exceptions but too many in this country are simply nominal Christians if that is worth anything to God.

 

[Philip James]

My experience among many Protestants is similar to yours. There are exceptions but too many in this country are simply nominal Christians if that is worth anything to God.

It is sad but true, that in the Church, as before with Israel, prosperity often leads to decadence and stagnation..
(Nothing new under the sun)

Yet the Spirit always corrects God's children, painful though it may be, one must welcome the consuming fire of HIS love....

Peace!

 

[amadeus]

It is sad but true, that in the Church, as before with Israel, prosperity often leads to decadence and stagnation..
(Nothing new under the sun)

Yet the Spirit always corrects God's children, painful though it may be, one must welcome the consuming fire of HIS love....

Peace!

We are too rich in the things of this world and they are too important to us. A little bit of real material poverty would be a good thing for many church goers in America. Many think they've got it made with God, but I always remember this verse:

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

What are we doing with what we have? God is paying attention... even when we are not.

 

[Enoch111]

I have catholic bibles in two languages and you can't tell me they're different.

Let's take a couple of concrete examples comparing the KJB with the Douay Rheims (DR) Catholic Bible:

Luke 1:3
KJB -- It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding* of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, [*παρηκολουθηκότι (parēkolouthēkoti) = to follow closely, to investigate]

DR -- It seemed good to me also, having diligently attained to all things from the beginning, to write to thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

So you tell me -- are those two translations identical? Is attaining something the same as having a perfect understanding? Indeed "from the very first" or "from the beginning" (Gk anothen) should have been translated as "from above", meaning that the Gospel of Luke was divinely inspired (but that is a separate issue). The only reason Luke had a perfect understanding is because he was writing under th direct control and inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Luke 1:48
KJB -- For he hath regarded the low estate* of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. [*ταπείνωσις (tapeinósis) = low estate, humiliation, not humility]

DR -- Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

Mary was not bragging about her perfect humility, but the fact that she had a very low social standing. Indeed Joseph and Mary could not even find proper accommodations in Bethlehem.

To add insult to injury we have this footnote in the DR:
[48] "Shall call me blessed": These words are a prediction of that honour which the church in all ages should pay to the Blessed Virgin. Let Protestants examine whether they are any way concerned in this prophecy.

Does any Protestant Bible have footnotes about the egregious errors of the Catholic church? [they should, but they don't]

So how do you conclude that Catholic Bibles are not different from Protestant Bibles? I could add multiple examples but they would take up too much space. Also we are not even addressing the textual basis of these bibles.

 

[Grams]

Amadeus HI !

Just wonder are you still catholic ??? Has the church changed since you
were young ?
Were I went it was so different then the church my other family members
went to........ which I did not know back then......

 

[GodsGrace]

Ah, you're being hard on the pastors for lack of instruction! Good!

As one who grew up 'catechized' in the disaster that Vatican II interpretations caused in Canada, all I can say is thank God for JPII whipping us back into order...

Have they forgotten him so soon in Italy?

Peace!

No.
They LOVE him here...
not quite the story with the current one.

And, I never used the catechism books from the CEI.
I brought Jesus to life for my kids.
They learned the geography, history, and life of Jesus the Messiah.
Sorry I had to leave.

What was the disaster in Canada?
I was in the states for JPII and can't remember a disaster.

 

[GodsGrace]

Let's take a couple of concrete examples comparing the KJB with the Douay Rheims (DR) Catholic Bible:

Luke 1:3
KJB -- It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding* of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, [*παρηκολουθηκότι (parēkolouthēkoti) = to follow closely, to investigate]

DR -- It seemed good to me also, having diligently attained to all things from the beginning, to write to thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

So you tell me -- are those two translations identical? Is attaining something the same as having a perfect understanding? Indeed "from the very first" or "from the beginning" (Gk anothen) should have been translated as "from above", meaning that the Gospel of Luke was divinely inspired (but that is a separate issue). The only reason Luke had a perfect understanding is because he was writing under th direct control and inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Luke 1:48
KJB -- For he hath regarded the low estate* of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. [*ταπείνωσις (tapeinósis) = low estate, humiliation, not humility]

DR -- Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid; for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

Mary was not bragging about her perfect humility, but the fact that she had a very low social standing. Indeed Joseph and Mary could not even find proper accommodations in Bethlehem.

To add insult to injury we have this footnote in the DR:
[48] "Shall call me blessed": These words are a prediction of that honour which the church in all ages should pay to the Blessed Virgin. Let Protestants examine whether they are any way concerned in this prophecy.

Does any Protestant Bible have footnotes about the egregious errors of the Catholic church? [they should, but they don't]

So how do you conclude that Catholic Bibles are not different from Protestant Bibles? I could add multiple examples but they would take up too much space. Also we are not even addressing the textual basis of these bibles.

The Douay Rheims!
My goodness...how far back do you want to go?
Jerome also wrote a bible from the Greek to the Latin...
Too bad he didn't know Greek very well.

But nowadays catholics DO NOT read the D.R.
They read bibles like The Jerusalem Bible or the Good News Bible. (those that do).

 

[Philip James]

No.
They LOVE him here...
not quite the story with the current one.

And, I never used the catechism books from the CEI.
I brought Jesus to life for my kids.
They learned the geography, history, and life of Jesus the Messiah.
Sorry I had to leave.

What was the disaster in Canada?
I was in the states for JPII and can't remember a disaster.

The disaster was in the seventies, all kinds of 'inovations' in practice and in celebratiing the Mass were around, we were certainly not worshipping 'with one voice and one mind'... And catachesis was abysmal...

JPII laid down the law on just what and what was not tolerable in the 'new order' mass.

I'll see if I can find you a good link....

Peace!

 

[GodsGrace]

The disaster was in the seventies, all kinds of 'inovations' in practice and in celebratiing the Mass were around, we were certainly not worshipping 'with one voice and one mind'... And catachesis was abysmal...

JPII laid down the law on just what and what was not tolerable in the 'new order' mass.

I'll see if I can find you a good link....

Peace!

LOL
In the 70's I was busy raising two children and can't really remember that decade too well...
incl music and movies (really).

I was catholic back then and attended Mass and my kids went to Catholic schools.
I really can't remember too much. I wasn't very involved in church matters back then.

If you send the link, I'll appreciate it.

 

[GodsGrace]

The disaster was in the seventies, all kinds of 'inovations' in practice and in celebratiing the Mass were around, we were certainly not worshipping 'with one voice and one mind'... And catachesis was abysmal...

JPII laid down the law on just what and what was not tolerable in the 'new order' mass.

I'll see if I can find you a good link....

Peace!

Oh. New Order...you're talking about the Novo Ordo....
Are you a very traditional catholic?
I have friends like this.
For instance, they dislike communion in the hand.
Can't think of anything else right now...
They still like going to Latin Masses and know Latin...
stuff like this.

 

[amadeus]

Amadeus HI !

Just wonder are you still catholic ??? Has the church changed since you
were young ?
Were I went it was so different then the church my other family members
went to........ which I did not know back then......

No, Grams! I stopped active attendance as a Catholic when I graduated from high school in 1961. For about 15 years after that I served myself rather than God. Then in 1976 God drew me back to Him but never again to Catholicism.

When I was a Catholic the mass itself was in Latin. I know that the way they do things has changed drastically since then. For these many years since 1976 I have been in more than one non-Catholic Christian group/church but about 10 months ago my last direct connection to the last church was broken. Now I still hold fast to God but I only visit churches. At age 75 it is unlikely that I will ever belong to another one... but God leading me, I am ready to follow His will if He has a different idea for me.

Give God the glory!

 

[Philip James]

LOL
In the 70's I was busy raising two children and can't really remember that decade too well...
incl music and movies (really).

I was catholic back then and attended Mass and my kids went to Catholic schools.
I really can't remember too much. I wasn't very involved in church matters back then.

If you send the link, I'll appreciate it.

Your 'noninvolvement' was endemic throughout the Church in Canada.. The reverence for the Mass all but disappeared.

But I'm happy to report that, to the surprise of some bishops, our youth are insisting on reverence and a resurrgence of Tradition!

Millennials Spur Liturgical Restoration in Western Canada - Crisis Magazine

Father, fill them with fire for Jesus and HIS Church, send forth your Spirit and renew the face of the Earth!

Peace!

 

[Enoch111]

But nowadays catholics DO NOT read the D.R.
They read bibles like The Jerusalem Bible or the Good News Bible. (those that do)

The Douay Rheims Bible is still a valid Catholic Bible, just like the Latin Vulgate.

But are you aware that the Jerusalem Bible PERVERTS the Gospel?

ROMANS 3 (KJB IN BLUE, JERUSALEM IN RED)
[Note: bracketed portions not in the actual text, either added or omitted]

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
20 So then, no human being can be found upright [at the tribunal of God by keeping the Law]; all that the Law does is to tell us what is sinful. [Note: Is there a huge difference between justified and upright?]
*********
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
21 God's saving justice was witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, but now it has been revealed altogether apart from law:
************
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
22 God's saving justice given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.[...and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference omitted]
***********
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
23 [No distinction is made]: all have sinned and lack God's glory,
************
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
24 and all are justified by the free gift of his grace through being set free in Christ Jesus.
**************
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
25 God appointed him as a sacrifice for reconciliation, through faith, by the shedding of his blood, and so showed his justness; first for the past, when sins went unpunished because he held his hand;[for the remission of sins that are past]
***********
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
26 and now again for the present age, to show how he is just and justifies everyone who has faith in Jesus.

DO YOU SEE THAT GOD'S RIGHTEOUSNESS HAS BEEN CHANGED TO GOD'S JUSTICE/JUSTNESS, AND THE MEANING OF JUSTICE IS ALSO HUMAN JUSTICE (AS SHOWN BELOW)?

"Justice is here taken in its ordinary and proper sense to signify the most important of the cardinal virtues. It is a moral quality or habit which perfects the will and inclines it to render to each and to all what belongs to them. Of the other cardinal virtues, prudenc eperfects the intellect and inclines the prudent man to act in all things according to right reason. Fortitude controls the irascible passions ; and temperance moderates the appetites according as reason dictates. While fortitude and temperance are self-regarding virtues, justice has reference to others. Together with charity it regulates man's intercourse with his fellow men. But charity leads us to help our neighbour in his need out of our own stores, while justice teaches us to give to another what belongs to him." (Quoted from their Encyclopedia)

 

[Philip James]

Oh. New Order...you're talking about the Novo Ordo....
Are you a very traditional catholic?

I am definitely a child of the Novo Ordo post VatII . But the more I embraced (and was challenged) on my faith, the more I studied the history of the Church, and the writings of the ECF's the morw 'traditional' I have become.

Receiving communion in the hand doesn't bother me a bit. Irrevrence in approaching the Eucharist and in the celebration of the Mass bother me, seared conciencences bother me...

The novus ordo is just fine, without importing 'liberal' protestant music and ideas...

Here's a link to a monsignors view of some of the abuses we went through, although he doesnt like the hands thing either

Monsignor Vincent Foy: 75 years of priestly service « Catholic Insight

Edit to add: He speaks about the 'Winnipeg error' that is my diocese.

Peace!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Listen BoL
There has been an UPROAR by Catholic Bishops over this....if I need to post google pages I will,,,

Conservatives want Catholic bishops to denounce pope as heretic - Reuters

Once again, bishops around the world differ on 'Amoris'

You know very well what an outcry there was over this "discipline"...as you put it.

As you must surely know,,,the EUCHARIST is not a discipline but is a DOCTRINE of the Catholic Church and dare I say that it is DOGMA....a person cannot be a catholic unless he believes in transubstantiation.

Discipline regarding the Eucharist has to do with HOW it is administered...
For instance:
Can one eat before receiving communion.
Can communion be offered by a lay person.
Can communion be taken in the hand.
Can communion be taken more than once per day.
etc.

These are disciplines that are subject to change.

What IS NOT subject to change is the FAITH that the church protects.
JESUS said that divorce caused ADULTERY.

A person remarried and living in ADULTERY CANNOT receive communion because they are living in mortal sin.

A person in MORTAL SIN CANNOT RECEIVE COMMUNION.
This is not a discipline.....

This is at the very least doctrine.....I'd go so far as to say it's dogma, but this could be debated.

IF A REMARRIED LIVING IN ADULTERY CAN RECEIVE COMMUNION....
then SO CAN ANYONE ELSE IN MORTAL SIN.....

How can you NOT understand the severity of this situation caused by Pope Francis.

He lost the respect of MANY in the catholic church...
priests, bishops and laity.

Did YOU receive the letter sent out by the Vatican in 2014 (maybe 2015) asking for opinion
on certain family matters AND on certain situations regarding the SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST?

Well, I happen to have received it. And I knew back then that this change would happen...
Many refused to believe it,,,but it DID happen and the catholic world was turned upside down for at least 2 or 3 years. It MIGHT be subsiding now....

No person with any common sense will believe this is a change to a discipline.
This is a change to a major catholic doctrine/dogma.

A dogma is a truth received from the bible.
Divorce is a truth received from Jesus.
Communion cannot be received when in Mortal Sin.
Remarriage is a mortal sin.

Pope Francis has declared that REMARRIAGE IS NOT A MORTAL SIN.
Is this a discipline according to you?

Those that cannot accept this change, such as yourself, find every excuse to get around it.
THERE IS NO GETTING AROUND IT.

If remarrieds can receive communion...
ANYONE can receive -- even those in ANY STATE OF MORTAL SIN.

CHANGE HAS COME TO A DOCTRINE/DOGMA.
ACCEPT IT.

Why do you continue to LIE when you know I'm just going to expose you for it??

Remarrying isn't always a mortal sin - and this was NEVER the case.
Being able to remarry when a Declaration of Nullity has been granted has ALWAYS been the norm.

Pope Francis hasn't changed this. you are STILL not allowed to remarry if you have not had you previous union anulled - and not every union is eligible for anullment. You have absolutely NO idea what you're talking about - but I THANK you for allowing me the opportunity to expose your lies sp that others reading this won't be seduced by them.

Finally- no matter HOW many times you regurgitate your feeling about this - you will STILL be wrong about the withholding of communion being a "doctrinal" matter.
As I have educated you on numerous posts now - it it not. It is a matter of Church discipline.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Matthew 3:9 (KJV) And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Christ sent the Holy Spirit to use His CHURCH as the teaching instrument to the world (Matt. 28:19-20, John 16:12-15).
Without Christ's Church - you wouldn't have any idea who He is. STUDY your Bible . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

but see you are still a blind ring-kisser, offering advice, so meh?
Why are you even here, papist scum? Catholic forums not good enough for you, eh?
And "St" Igmo is a scumbag too imo, ok? Now i understand that pigs need Rock Stars to look up to, but that is about as Christian as your satanic religion is, ok, the one that insists that it must be between me and Christ? Ha so tell me more about how i dont know Christ, blind guy, never said i did, see, that is for you and your deceived friends to commend each other to themselves about, yeh?

"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning."
- Calvin (Bill Watterson)

yes, i already know its perfectly ok for you to do it huh

THANK YOU for the persecution.

Matt. 5:11-12
"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."

Thank you also for the crystal-clear evidence that Christ is NOT in you . . .