Is there salvation outside the Catholic Church?

[BreadOfLife]

Go ahead and waste your time...

Matthew 15:14 KJV
[14] Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

Exposing lies is never a waste if time . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Do you understand English?
No wonder you have a problem communicating with persons.

CAN A BABY MAKE A DECISION TO BE SAVED?
What nonsense are you speaking?
And who said a person must come to a certain age to be saved?

And since I have no desire to speak to you but only want to make sure that those reading along understand since YOU'VE PUT WORDS INTO MY MOUTH.....words I DID NOT SAY.

Since you have a penchant for telling lies and denying the things that you say – let’s review:

In post #541 – YOU said:

The catholic church believes that one should be baptized to be saved...
but it does not believe that baptism saves every baby,,,which would mean that every catholic is saved.

It believes that baptism gives you the opportunity to receive the Holy Spirit and become saved...this must happen in adulthood, or the age of reasoning. A baby cannot decide for salvation in Christ.

NONE of this is true.
First of all – the Catholic Church does NOT teach as YOU stated that Baptism merely gives us the “opportunity” to receive the Holy Spirit and be saved. The Church teaches that the Holy Spirit regenerates us at Baptism. If you were to die right after being Baptized, you would go to Heaven.

The Catholic Church does NOT teach, as YOU stated that this must happen at adulthood.

A baby is regenerated – just like an adult at Baptism. This has been the constant teaching of the Church for 2000 years.

Sooooooo, I didn’t put ANY words in your mouth that YOU didn’t say . . .

 

[Taken]

How would you know about God if no one ever told you about Him?

Did someone raise an objection about men being TOLD about God?

I didn't.

Rom 10
[17] So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

How could we read the Bible if men had not written them and other men preserved them?

Did someone raise an objection about men READING about God IN the Scriptures?

I didn't.

My objection is to the CORRUPT who CHANGE what the Scripture SAYS, rewrite Scripture and then Give its MEANING in one of "THEIR" congregational "teaching" booklets.

OPEN your eyes...WHOM from the beginning DID God APPOINT to be hearers, listeners, keepers, speakers of HIS WORD?

Gentles?

I am grateful to God for the men He used to help me. I am grateful to them and to God.

Help you what? READ?


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[GodsGrace]

Since you have a penchant for telling lies and denying the things that you say – let’s review:

In post #541 – YOU said:

The catholic church believes that one should be baptized to be saved...
but it does not believe that baptism saves every baby,,,which would mean that every catholic is saved.

It believes that baptism gives you the opportunity to receive the Holy Spirit and become saved...this must happen in adulthood, or the age of reasoning. A baby cannot decide for salvation in Christ.

NONE of this is true.
First of all – the Catholic Church does NOT teach as YOU stated that Baptism merely gives us the “opportunity” to receive the Holy Spirit and be saved. The Church teaches that the Holy Spirit regenerates us at Baptism. If you were to die right after being Baptized, you would go to Heaven.

The Catholic Church does NOT teach, as YOU stated that this must happen at adulthood.

A baby is regenerated – just like an adult at Baptism. This has been the constant teaching of the Church for 2000 years.

Sooooooo, I didn’t put ANY words in your mouth that YOU didn’t say . . .

You sure did put words in my mouth.,
IF anyone in interested they could read your post 560 and the nonsense it proposes
which are concepts I NEVER STATED.

Not too many die RIGHT AFTER BAPTISM.

I've wasted enough time on you.

IF anyone is really interested in this,,,,which I doubt,,,,
I will answer ONLY to them.

 

[farouk]

Your church teaches this.
YOU go educate yourself.

The question is always: "What saith the Scripture?" (Romans 4.3; Galatians 4.30).

 

[BreadOfLife]

You sure did put words in my mouth.,
IF anyone in interested they could read your post 560 and the nonsense it proposes
which are concepts I NEVER STATED.

Not too many die RIGHT AFTER BAPTISM.

I've wasted enough time on you.

IF anyone is really interested in this,,,,which I doubt,,,,
I will answer ONLY to them.

And, as usual, you lie the run.
That's fine, GG - but I will always expose you when you spread lies about the Catholic Church.
So, if you don't want to deal with me - try to stay honest . . .

 

[GodsGrace]

The question is always: "What saith the Scripture?" (Romans 4.3; Galatians 4.30).

Of course.
Only adults should be baptized because it is their choice and belief.
There is an age of reason....when one can understand the things of God.

 

[farouk]

Of course.
Only adults should be baptized because it is their choice and belief.
There is an age of reason....when one can understand the things of God.

Some ppl mature more quickly than others, but I in principle agree that it needs to be a conscious decision, counting the cost.

 

[GodsGrace]

Some ppl mature more quickly than others, but I in principle agree that it needs to be a conscious decision, counting the cost.

Of course. Age of reason does NOT mean that there is a specific age when one can reason. A person can know God at the age of 8 (I've seen this) or a person won't understand till the age of 15, or 18....generally we say at the age of 12, but it means little because of the reason you've stated.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The question is always: "What saith the Scripture?" (Romans 4.3; Galatians 4.30).

Great question – here is the answer . . .

Scripture tells us that the ENTIRE households of Cornelius, Stephanas and the Philippian Jailer (Acts 10, Acts 16, and 1 Corinthians 1) were Baptized.

Entire households contained people of ALL ages – young, middle-aged, old – and, yes, even BABIES.
It was very common in first century culture to have multi-generational households. That is to say, parents, children, grandparents, etc.

The UNANIMOUS consensus of the Early Church wirings is that the Baptism of infants was an APOSTOLIC teaching that had been handed down to them.

Irenaeus
"He [Jesus] came to save all through himself; all, I say, who through him are reborn in God: infants, and children, and youths, and old men. Therefore he passed through every age, becoming an infant for infants, sanctifying infants; a child for children, sanctifying those who are of that age . . . [so that] he might be the perfect teacher in all things, perfect not only in respect to the setting forth of truth, perfect also in respect to relative age" (Against Heresies 2:22:4 [A.D. 189]).

Hippolytus
"Baptize first the children, and if they can speak for themselves let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them" (The Apostolic Tradition 21:16 [A.D. 215]).

Origen
"Every soul that is born into flesh is soiled by the filth of wickedness and sin. . . . In the Church, baptism is given for the remission of sins, and, according to the usage of the Church, baptism is given even to infants. If there were nothing in infants which required the remission of sins and nothing in them pertinent to forgiveness, the grace of baptism would seem superfluous" (Homilies on Leviticus 8:3 [A.D. 248]).

"The Church received from the apostles the tradition of giving baptism even to infants. The apostles, to whom were committed the secrets of the divine sacraments, knew there are in everyone innate strains of [original] sin, which must be washed away through water and the Spirit" (Commentaries on Romans 5:9 [A.D. 248]).

Gregory of Nazianz
"Do you have an infant child? Allow sin no opportunity; rather, let the infant be sanctified from childhood.

Augustine
"The custom of Mother Church in baptizing infants is certainly not to be scorned, nor is it to be regarded in any way as superfluous, nor is it to be believed that its tradition is anything except apostolic" (The Literal Interpretation of Genesis 10:23:39 [A.D. 408]).

 

[prism]

I was regenerated at Baptism (John 3:5).

I was regenerated before baptism....
(Acts 10:47)

 

[prism]

Exposing lies is never a waste if time . . .

Maybe then you had better educate the Pope about the lies of Islam...

 

[BreadOfLife]

Maybe then you had better educate the Pope about the lies of Islam...

He knew about the lies of Islam.

He was showing gratitude to an Islamic leader for giving him a gift. It was simply extending an olive branch in return for a gift of their sacred text.

 

[prism]

He knew about the lies of Islam.

He was showing gratitude to an Islamic leader for giving him a gift. It was simply extending an olive branch in return for a gift of their sacred text.

Their sacred text? I can't picture Jesus kissing a Book of Lies. Some Vicar. A compromising Vicar indeed.
That would be like Jesus kissing leaven. What a farce.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Their sacred text? I can't picture Jesus kissing a Book of Lies. Some Vicar. A compromising Vicar indeed.
That would be like Jesus kissing leaven. What a farce.

As I pointed out earlier – John Paul the Great was simply expressing gratitude as an olive branch to a Muslim counterpart. There was nothing “sinister” about this and he didn’t go on to expound the “virtues” of the Quran or Islam.

You’re just ignorantly judging a book by its cover – pardon the pun.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I was regenerated before baptism....
(Acts 10:47)

Actually – you weren’t.
Cornelius and his household were.

God can and does make Biblical exceptions for teaching purposes.

The Ethiopian Eunuch wasn’t regenerated before he was Baptized in Acts 8 and neither were YOU . . .

 

[prism]

Actually – you weren’t.
Cornelius and his household were.

God can and does make Biblical exceptions for teaching purposes.

The Ethiopian Eunuch wasn’t regenerated before he was Baptized in Acts 8 and neither were YOU . . .

Really? I hated God, embraced false religions,did over my share of drugs, stole, gambled occult etc.etc.until my heart was renewed in Christ to love God through Jesus Christ, loved righteousness and His Word...AND THEN GOT BAPTIZED.

Don't tell me what happened as far as the ordo salutis went in my life.
It seems to me, regeneration is no more than a Church doctrine rather than a real life experience.

 

[prism]

As I pointed out earlier – John Paul the Great was simply expressing gratitude as an olive branch to a Muslim counterpart. There was nothing “sinister” about this and he didn’t go on to expound the “virtues” of the Quran or Islam.

You’re just ignorantly judging a book by its cover – pardon the pun.

1 Thessalonians 5:22 (KJV) Abstain from all appearance of evil.
But I guess your GREAT One is above God's Word.
Doesn't he realize how many have stumbled over that reckless action?

 

[Philip James]

Of course.
Only adults should be baptized because it is their choice and belief.
There is an age of reason....when one can understand the things of God.

Dear sister,

Do you not belive our Father answers the prayers of His children?
Do you think that He would deny the new birth and the Holy Spirit to our children when we ask Him in faith to give them the gift of faith?

I have a 15 year old boy who is unlikely to ever (in this life) be able to vocalize his faith.
But I have no doubt that Jesus dwells in him, or that he has received the Holy Spirit.
I have watched him change the hearts and lives of many who interact with him for any length of time.

Are you going to suggest that his baptism sonehow is invalid?

Peace!

Peace be with you!

 

[Giuliano]

And I'm not counting on ignorance for MY situation – but Christ Himself stated that those who have NOT been exposed to the truth may receive mercy (John 9:41, 15:22).

Jesus said it – I BELIEVE it.

Ha, so ignorance doesn't win! It's not an invincible obstacle.

Martyr Longinus the Centurion, who stood at the Cross of the Lord

The Holy Martyr Longinus the Centurion, a Roman soldier, served in Judea under the command of the Governor, Pontius Pilate. When our Savior Jesus Christ was crucified, it was the detachment of soldiers under the command of Longinus which stood watch on Golgotha, at the very foot of the holy Cross. Longinus and his soldiers were eyewitnesses of the final moments of the earthly life of the Lord, and of the great and awesome portents that appeared at His death. These events shook the centurion’s soul. Longinus believed in Christ and confessed before everyone, “Truly this was the Son of God” (Mt. 27:54).