The Bible puts us at a Crossroads

[charity]

'Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder.
Yea, all of you be subject one to another,
and be clothed with humility:

for God resisteth the proud,
and giveth grace to the humble.​

Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God,
that He may exalt you in due time:
Casting all your care upon him; for He careth for you.'
(1 Peter 5:5-7)

Praise God!

 

[charity]

'If there be therefore any consolation in Christ,
.. if any comfort of love,
.... if any fellowship of the Spirit,
...... if any bowels and mercies,
Fulfil ye my joy,
.. that ye be likeminded,
.... having the same love,
...... being of one accord,
........ of one mind.
Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory;
.. but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
.... Look not every man on his own things,
...... but every man also on the things of others.
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
.. Who, being in the form of God,
.... thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
...... But made himself of no reputation,
........ and took upon Him the form of a servant,
.......... and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man,
.. He humbled himself,
.... and became obedient unto death,
...... even the death of the cross.
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted Him,
.. and given Him a name which is above every name:
.... That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
...... of things in heaven,
........ and things in earth,
.......... and things under the earth;
............ And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
.............. to the glory of God the Father.'
(Philippians 2:1-11)

Praise His Holy Name!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yes English is my first language, and what in the world does that have to do with anything?? "Oh dull of understanding . . ." ?

And I also will try again.



Either . . . you enter into Christ, and into sinlessness, or you are a pretender, having added a new layer of sin. That is according to episkopos' doctrine. So my question is, if you agree with his statement, Which are you? Are you sinless? Or a pretender?

Does that help?

This doctrine does not reflect what I find in the Bible. I don't expect a valid answer because I don't think it's a valid question. It's given to illustrate the invalidity of this doctrine.

Anyone who answers according to what they know to be true will have to claim hypocrisy, "I'm a pretender, twice the son of hell!" That's the only option given. Others may claim to have no sin, to live sinless lives. I know what I've seen on this forum, and I wouldn't believe such claims myself.

Either claim to be sinless, or be branded hypocrit. There's your choice!

But God gives a different Gospel in His Word.

Much love!

Oh my gosh, I'm talking into the wind...you didn't note the third option given in the man's post? You just keep insisting the man said something while not including what he said after that, in the same post. This is very dishonest...

 

[marks]

Oh my gosh, I'm talking into the wind...you didn't note the third option given in the man's post? You just keep insisting the man said something while not including what he said after that, in the same post. This is very dishonest...

OR....we can be wise and claim nothing but keep an open mind in all honesty...refusing to add a religious certainty to our ways.

Then you have no idea. That answers the question.

It's not a third option. It's simply to claim ignorance, of what the Bible says we can know.

As a multiple choice, it can be expressed this way:

A) I have entered into Christ and am therefore sinless.
B) I am a pretender, twice the son of hell
C) I don't know whether I am A) or B)

It's not a third choice.

God told us that He wrote certain things that we can know. Does God want us to be ignorant about our relationship with Him?

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Either . . . you enter into Christ, and into sinlessness, or you are a pretender, having added a new layer of sin.

Oh my gosh, what are you saying?? This is a terrible doctrine!

So now the same thing has been done to you that you did to Epi. Have I been dishonest, have I completely misunderstood your post or do I have poor reading comprehension?

 

[marks]

Oh my gosh, what are you saying?? This is a terrible doctrine!

So now the same thing has been done to you that you did to Epi. Have I been dishonest, have I completely misunderstood your post or do I have poor reading comprehension?

Read my posts.

I've answered everything you've asked, I've quoted the sources, you continue to be non-responsive to what I've written, except to throw stones.

 

[marks]

Oh my gosh, what are you saying?? This is a terrible doctrine!

So now the same thing has been done to you that you did to Epi. Have I been dishonest, have I completely misunderstood your post or do I have poor reading comprehension?

To me it looks like you are being evasive.

 

[marks]

Once again, no real answers, just more mud slinging. Go figure!

​

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Then you have no idea. That answers the question.

It's not a third option. It's simply to claim ignorance, of what the Bible says we can know.

As a multiple choice, it can be expressed this way:

A) I have entered into Christ and am therefore sinless.
B) I am a pretender, twice the son of hell
C) I don't know whether I am A) or B)

It's not a third choice.

God told us that He wrote certain things that we can know. Does God want us to be ignorant about our relationship with Him?

Much love!

You will always have this schism if you keep insisting to be holy and to be righteous are the same exact thing.

 

[marks]

You will always have this schism if you keep insisting to be holy and to be righteous are the same exact thing.

It's not my issue. It's the issue of whomever believes this teaching. That's the true disconnect.

There is a reason I keep asking this question, and a reason why no one who teaches this will answer.

 

[marks]

You will always have this schism if you keep insisting to be holy and to be righteous are the same exact thing.

Is what is Holy at the same time unrighteous? Is what is righteous at the same time unholy?

I don't mind following this line of thought with you, but not for more evasion and stones thrown.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Holy is holy. Righteous is righteous. All men sometimes do what is right and sometimes they don't. Sometimes they hit the mark and sometimes they don't.
That is not holiness.

I see training in righteousness as preparation or...gaining the maturity for something further. What I DONT do is claim that something further.

 

[marks]

That is not holiness.

And then are they righteous in their unholiness? Is this what you are saying?

 

[amadeus]

I think it would be pretty easy to label our works as God’s works after a certain point in our relationship with God....a born again point in time, for example. However, we are still doing the work - no matter how inspired we are by God.

Yes, we are doing the work, or so it seems, but in a strong connection with God, He is filling in so many more of the gaps in our abilities and our knowledge. In a more tenuous connection with Him, we will find ourselves stumbling and falling more often. The connection must continue to be reinforced and that is done as I believe by increasing the regularity of our connection:

"Rejoice in the Lord always. Again I will say, rejoice!" Phil 4:4
"Pray without ceasing." I Thess 5:17

All relationships require participation - even our relationship with God! Sanctification, transformation into a perfect lovers and citizen of Heaven, requires us to work with God. Sanctification is not a car wash, where you enter dirty and exit clean without effort.

Paul was writing to a formerly Jewish audience that believed they could perform their way to perfection. I agree with Paul! We do not get anywhere spinning our wheels, we need to work with God to win the race.

I would say, especially our relationship with God!
The winners of this race are NOT as in the races of men. Men are looking to see who is first across the finish line. We are not, however, competing with others. We competing with ourselves. If we cross the finish line we win.

I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill;...Ecc 9:11

"... but he that endureth to the end shall be saved." Matt 10:22

 

[amadeus]

Amen. The option of being humble doesn't seem to be seen as valid as a consideration among the indoctrinated ones.

So then perhaps your next discussion will cover what it really means to be humble. Many apparently miss what it is and how important it is.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And then are they righteous in their unholiness? Is this what you are saying?

Lol. When they do not rightly, they are holy in their in unrighteousness?

 

[marks]

So then perhaps your next discussion will cover what it really means to be humble. Many apparently miss what it is and how important it is.

An interesting question in regards to humility, is there any one here who does not sin? Has attained to sinlessness?

Being humble is not the same as being coy.

"Oh, I wouldn't want to say that I don't sin. No, we shouldn't say that." That's not humility.

So?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

An interesting question in regards to humility, is there any one here who does not sin? Has attained to sinlessness?

Being humble is not the same as being coy.

"Oh, I wouldn't want to say that I don't sin. No, we shouldn't say that." That's not humility.

So?

Yes, I believe some have attained to sinlessness. When we abide in Him we do not sin. But does one have the maturity and faith and singleness of eye to remain there?

 

[Waiting on him]

Yes, I believe some have attained to sinlessness. When we abide in Him we do not sin. But does one have the maturity and faith and singleness of eye to remain there?

Have you achieved this?

 

[marks]

Yes, I believe some have attained to sinlessness. When we abide in Him we do not sin. But does one have the maturity and faith and singleness of eye to remain there?

Oh, you mean, we can go for a period of time without sin. OK.

So then, if you go for some time without sin, and think that you've entered into Christ, and now do not sin, then you find you do in fact commit a sin, then this means that you were just fooling yourself, and are a pretender, according to Episkopos' doctrine, or else you just don't know. Is that right?