Philippians 2:12

[Ernest T. Bass]

An apostate has some light; but never life.

The Greek word for apostate is apostasia.
Strong's Greek: 646. ἀποστασία (apostasia) -- defection, revolt

It means to move away from one's previous standing.

If one was "never saved" then his standing never changed. An apostate then is one who's standing changed from saved to lost. As Paul told the Corinthians take heed lest ye fall. The word 'fall' means one's place has changed.

 

[Waiting on him]

The Greek word for apostate is apostasia.
Strong's Greek: 646. ἀποστασία (apostasia) -- defection, revolt

It means to move away from one's previous standing.

If one was "never saved" then his standing never changed. An apostate then is one who's standing changed from saved to lost. As Paul told the Corinthians take heed lest ye fall. The word 'fall' means one's place has changed.

That’s creepy my standing changed several years ago.

 

[farouk]

The Greek word for apostate is apostasia.
Strong's Greek: 646. ἀποστασία (apostasia) -- defection, revolt

It means to move away from one's previous standing.

If one was "never saved" then his standing never changed. An apostate then is one who's standing changed from saved to lost. As Paul told the Corinthians take heed lest ye fall. The word 'fall' means one's place has changed.

The previous standing was merely apparent to men; it was never as what the Lord Jesus said in the explanation to the Parable of the Sower says: "But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty." (Matthew 13.23)

 

[Davy]

But it evidently wasn't saving faith; the Parable of the Sower clearly show examples of what looks like faith but is not, truly.

It's not for us to decide who will be condemned to the future lake of fire and who won't. That's our Lord Jesus' decision only. Those using that idea like, "But it evidently wasn't saving faith...", and other such ideas learned from men's doctrines, usurp Christ's Authority by thinking such things.

Belief on The Father through His Son involves 'accountability'. For those who have been 'blinded' away from The Gospel, how can they be held accountable if they haven't been able to understand, i.e, hear with ears to hear, and eyes to see? When our Lord Jesus returns, the spiritual eyes and ears for many... are going to be opened for the first time. I mean, even Judas Iscariot has not been judged to condemnation into the lake of fire yet.

 

[farouk]

It's not for us to decide who will be condemned to the future lake of fire and who won't. That's our Lord Jesus' decision only. Those using that idea like, "But it evidently wasn't saving faith...", and other such ideas learned from men's doctrines, usurp Christ's Authority by thinking such things.

Belief on The Father through His Son involves 'accountability'. For those who have been 'blinded' away from The Gospel, how can they be held accountable if they haven't been able to understand, i.e, hear with ears to hear, and eyes to see? When our Lord Jesus returns, the spiritual eyes and ears for many... are going to be opened for the first time. I mean, even Judas Iscariot has not been judged to condemnation into the lake of fire yet.

The point is (my emphasis): "Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." (2 Timothy 2.19)

 

[Davy]

But it evidently wasn't saving faith; the Parable of the Sower clearly show examples of what looks like faith but is not, truly.

The parable of the Sower is to show us the difference between how Christ's elect 'hear' The Word compared to others. To automatically turn that parable into a condemnation to the lake of fire Message for all those of the first three sowing examples shows lack of understanding it altogether. The 'majority' of Christ's Church today involves those in the first three examples of the parable! It's only the fourth example that is able to produce much fruit that represents Christ's elect.

 

[farouk]

The parable of the Sower is to show us the difference between how Christ's elect 'hear' The Word compared to others. To automatically turn that parable into a condemnation to the lake of fire Message for all those of the first three sowing examples shows lack of understanding it altogether. The 'majority' of Christ's Church today involves those in the first three examples of the parable! It's only the fourth example that is able to produce much fruit that represents Christ's elect.

Only those who are like good ground, who hear the Word and keep it, are saved.

 

[Davy]

The point is (my emphasis): "Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." (2 Timothy 2.19)

And the point of this thread is Phil.2:12 by Apostle Paul. That's why Paul would say that, "And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." He would not have said that if it were not possible for a believer on Christ to become an apostate. It's important to read and heed all... a Scripture passage, and not just parts of it.

 

[farouk]

And the point of this thread is Phil.2:12 by Apostle Paul. That's why Paul would say that, "And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." He would not have said that if it were not possible for a believer on Christ to become an apostate. It's important to read and heed all... a Scripture passage, and not just parts of it.

And we are supposed to read Philippians 1.6: "He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ".

I don't believe in any false Gospel of meritorious works performed supposedly to "stay saved".

 

[Davy]

Only those who are like good ground, who hear the Word and keep it, are saved.

How do you know who is saved and who is not? Did Jesus give you some authority in that decision?? NO, He did not, so you shouldn't be going around saying who is saved and who isn't, as if you knew. You don't know.

There is nothing... in the sower parable about those being condemned into the future lake of fire.

The sower parable is about bearing fruit, not being condemned to the lake of fire.

 

[farouk]

How do you know who is saved and who is not? Did Jesus give you some authority in that decision?? NO, He did not, so you shouldn't be going around saying who is saved and who isn't, as if you knew. You don't know.

There is nothing... in the sower parable about those being condemned into the future lake of fire.

The sower parable is about bearing fruit, not being condemned to the lake of fire.

2 Timothy 2.19, as quoted in post #85.

 

[Davy]

And we are supposed to read Philippians 1.6: "He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ".

I don't believe in any false Gospel of meritorious works performed supposedly to "stay saved".

You have left God's Word, even while quoting from it. That because you are adding what you've learned from men's doctrines, instead of keeping to the simplicity in the actual Scripture. That reveals you really don't understand a lot of what you read.

Phil.1:6 isn't the subject. Eventually you run out of Scripture that has even a little link to the subject at hand when you don't really understand the Scriptures to begin with.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

The previous standing was merely apparent to men; it was never as what the Lord Jesus said in the explanation to the Parable of the Sower says: "But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty." (Matthew 13.23)

No, it means one has moved from a previous standing. A 'never saved' person standing does not change.

A already fallen person cannot fall yet Christians can fall from a saved standing.

 

[farouk]

No, it means one has moved from a previous standing. A 'never saved' person standing does not change.

A already fallen person cannot fall yet Christians can fall from a saved standing.

Wrong, Sir; Philippians 1.6 would indicate otherwise. And Romans 8.38-39. And John 10.28-29.

 

[justbyfaith]

"wherefore" - as Christ was obedient we are also be obedient = no faith only.

But certainly, we are saved by faith apart from works:

Rom 4:6, Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Tit 3:5, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Eph 2:9, Not of works, lest any man should boast.

We are saved entirely by an obedient faith; and most assuredly, it is the faith that saves and not the obedience that is attached to it.

An apostate then is one who's standing changed from saved to lost.

Not necessarily. A person can have a nominal, lukewarm, or shallow faith, mere mental assent to the tenets of the gospel...and such a faith may indeed not be a living and saving faith. Therefore a person can go from being in the faith to being apostate...and yet never have been saved.

It's not for us to decide who will be condemned to the future lake of fire and who won't.

Actually, we do have a say in the decisions that will be made on that day (1 Corinthians 6:1-3); while the Lord Jesus will make the final decision about every soul.

 

[farouk]

Many pluckers among us looking too pluck anyone pluckable.

I really liked that phrase of yours...

 

[CharismaticLady]

'Wherefore, my beloved,
as ye have always obeyed,
not as in my presence only,
but now much more in my absence,
work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
For it is God which worketh in you
both to will and to do of His good pleasure.'
(Philippians 2:12)

Hello there,

This verse creates a problem in the minds of some, because, a) it appears to link salvation with works, and, b) that it appears to teach that we need to be in 'fear and trembling' before God. But, can salvation be earned by good works? & Should we be in 'fear and trembling' before our loving Heavenly Father?

* The first thing we should note, is that the words written, are, 'work out your salvation', and not, 'work for your salvation'. This makes a difference doesn't it? For there is a great difference between working 'for' something, and working 'out' something.

* Salvation is a free gift, given by God to all who have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, as the One Who died for their sins. However, once salvation has been 'received', it needs to be worked out. See Ephesians 2:8-10:-

'For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves:
it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are His workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.'
(Ephesians 2:8-10)
​

* Paul makes clear that salvation cannot be secured by works. He tells us, 'a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the law and the prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. ... For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.' (Romans 3:21, 22 & 28)

* The, 'working out' of salvation, is working out in practice what God has already 'worked in' by His almighty power and grace: by walking before Him as those who are walking in newness of life, by faith; energised by His Spirit, in Christ Jesus. Seeking to please Him, and honour Him in our walk and witness, as those whose sins have been forgiven, and have the hope of eternal life in Christ Jesus their Lord.

* The 'fear and trembling' spoken of in this verse, is a reverential attitude towards God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure: for God's perfect love casts out all fear.

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Why do so many denominations throw the baby out with the bath water when it comes to works. According to James "works" is not the dirty word some denominations make it out to be. What Paul was talking about were outward works of the flesh such as physical circumcision, eating only clean meat, or keeping the Sabbath or feasts. Nothing outward will justify us and make us better than someone else. However, if our faith is true we will walk in the Spirit. That is us cooperating with the Spirit. The Spirit doesn't lead us into sin, so not sinning is not a work Paul or any other apostle is talking about. If we walk in the Spirit we will not sin. We just won't have any desire to. It is not work, but pleasure.

 

[CharismaticLady]

If you believe you cannot ever do a future sin after having believed on Jesus Christ, which means you also don't believe in any future need to repent or ask Jesus forgiveness, then you will have believed you have a FREE LICENSE to sin.

Just the opposite. If you don't sin, you don't need to repent. There is no license to sin except for those who don't know that Jesus takes away our sin - freeing us FROM sin, not freeing us TO sin.

 

[justbyfaith]

Why do so many denominations throw the baby out with the bath water when it comes to works. According to James "works" is not the dirty word some denominations make it out to be. What Paul was talking about were outward works of the flesh such as physical circumcision, eating only clean meat, or keeping the Sabbath or feasts. Nothing outward will justify us and make us better than someone else. However, if our faith is true we will walk in the Spirit. That is us cooperating with the Spirit. The Spirit doesn't lead us into sin, so not sinning is not a work Paul or any other apostle is talking about. If we walk in the Spirit we will not sin. We just won't have any desire to. It is not work, but pleasure.

I will add that a holy walk/the doing of good works is the result of a living faith in Jesus Christ...we cannot accomplish it apart from faith.

Some try...but will find themselves singing the song, "What's going on inside of me? I despise my own behaviour...this only serves to confirm my suspicion, that I'm still a man in need of a Saviour."

If we put our trust in our works to save us, I believe that the Lord will graciously not allow us to live the perfect life that is required of those who put their trust in their works to save them (see Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48)....so that we can convert from trusting in our works to save us unto trusting in the finished work of Christ: as His blood was shed as the propitiation for our sins. He paid the penalty of our wrongdoing on the Cross. If we are thus forgiven, and receive the Holy Spirit as the result...then yes, we will live a different life than before. We will walk according to the Spirit rather than the flesh...because we are new creatures in Christ...the old has gone; behold, all things are become new! (2 Corinthians 5:17 (kjv)).

 

[marks]

Why do so many denominations throw the baby out with the bath water when it comes to works. According to James "works" is not the dirty word some denominations make it out to be. What Paul was talking about were outward works of the flesh such as physical circumcision, eating only clean meat, or keeping the Sabbath or feasts. Nothing outward will justify us and make us better than someone else. However, if our faith is true we will walk in the Spirit. That is us cooperating with the Spirit. The Spirit doesn't lead us into sin, so not sinning is not a work Paul or any other apostle is talking about. If we walk in the Spirit we will not sin. We just won't have any desire to. It is not work, but pleasure.

Amen!

The whole point is that we're no longer that person! So IF we are no longer that person, should we live as that person lived? It argues otherwise.

Much love!