bbyrd009
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"unto?"
ha, priceless. said with such conviction, too. ok, thanks sister
Non-Tongue Speakers Roll Call Poll Survey
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shnarkle
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What passes for "speaking in tongues" in today's churches ranges from a rhythmic gibberish that can be taught, and easily mimicked to being induced into a trance like/hypnotized state that allows one to articulate syllables matching a meter that is normally subconscious. What I've witnessed in charismatic and Pentecostal churches isn't a language at all.
However, it is also possible to give articulate coherent speech in this same exact meter. I've seen others pull this off with ease for hours on end, and lapsed into it myself occasionally only becoming conscious of the fact afterwards. I've seen people on drugs lapse into it for quite long periods of time as well as one person with schizophrenia and a few who were diagnosed with bipolar disorders.
It is a rhythmic signal that pulses in one hemisphere of the brain, and when connected to the other hemisphere allows one to give voice to the sounds in their head. This is all well documented in the medical literature. It is evident in all cultures regardless of belief or lack thereof. It was quite common before the breakdown of the bicameral mind around 5000 years ago. Some scholars believe it was how the Iliad and the Odyssey were created, and these epic poems even indicate this phenomena by pointing out that Odysseus was probably an archetype for the emergence of conscious humanity. He was able to consciously manipulate those around him who were still unconscious. This made him "the great tactician".
Those who still have those connective pathways in their brains are much more readily able to speak in tongues, while those who no longer have those primitive pathways will find it almost impossible to do it.
I find it particularly intriguing when the speech is coherent because the meter is poetic, and mimics English heroic verse. For those who can speak in tongues during their church services, I suspect that a significant percentage are also able to speak this same meter in coherent English as well, perhaps even for hours on end. I will occasionally lapse into it for a minute or more, sometimes accompanied by end rhymes as well. I only discovered this by reading Homer, and Milton out loud. My ear became accustomed to the meter and began to notice it when people around me were speaking in the same meter. Then I noticed myself lapsing into it as well.
How the brain is able to match coherent speech to this meter is a mystery to me. It is no wonder the ancients referred to it as "the Muse".
However, it is also possible to give articulate coherent speech in this same exact meter. I've seen others pull this off with ease for hours on end, and lapsed into it myself occasionally only becoming conscious of the fact afterwards. I've seen people on drugs lapse into it for quite long periods of time as well as one person with schizophrenia and a few who were diagnosed with bipolar disorders.
It is a rhythmic signal that pulses in one hemisphere of the brain, and when connected to the other hemisphere allows one to give voice to the sounds in their head. This is all well documented in the medical literature. It is evident in all cultures regardless of belief or lack thereof. It was quite common before the breakdown of the bicameral mind around 5000 years ago. Some scholars believe it was how the Iliad and the Odyssey were created, and these epic poems even indicate this phenomena by pointing out that Odysseus was probably an archetype for the emergence of conscious humanity. He was able to consciously manipulate those around him who were still unconscious. This made him "the great tactician".
Those who still have those connective pathways in their brains are much more readily able to speak in tongues, while those who no longer have those primitive pathways will find it almost impossible to do it.
I find it particularly intriguing when the speech is coherent because the meter is poetic, and mimics English heroic verse. For those who can speak in tongues during their church services, I suspect that a significant percentage are also able to speak this same meter in coherent English as well, perhaps even for hours on end. I will occasionally lapse into it for a minute or more, sometimes accompanied by end rhymes as well. I only discovered this by reading Homer, and Milton out loud. My ear became accustomed to the meter and began to notice it when people around me were speaking in the same meter. Then I noticed myself lapsing into it as well.
How the brain is able to match coherent speech to this meter is a mystery to me. It is no wonder the ancients referred to it as "the Muse".
Justin and Johanna
New Member
If you don't believe in tongues, you don't believe in God. God says in the Bible that tongues are real and still exist. johanna
tongues will be here until the sun and the moon cease to shine, and the stars will fall from heaven like untimely figs shaken by a mighty wind. Then the sign of the son of man will come with great glory and clouds, with his angels to gather his elect from the four winds of the earth, even from one end of the universe to the other.then Israel will be saved. Matthew 24 Justin
27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two, or at most three, should speak in turn, and someone must interpret. 28But if there is no interpreter, he should remain silent in the church and speak only to himself and God. 1 corinthians 14:28 There is a place for personal use of tongues <<<< Johanna
Then that's when Israel will be saved and the door of the Gentiles will be closed because perfection will have come then, in the person of Yeshua. Justin
tongues will be here until the sun and the moon cease to shine, and the stars will fall from heaven like untimely figs shaken by a mighty wind. Then the sign of the son of man will come with great glory and clouds, with his angels to gather his elect from the four winds of the earth, even from one end of the universe to the other.then Israel will be saved. Matthew 24 Justin
27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two, or at most three, should speak in turn, and someone must interpret. 28But if there is no interpreter, he should remain silent in the church and speak only to himself and God. 1 corinthians 14:28 There is a place for personal use of tongues <<<< Johanna
Then that's when Israel will be saved and the door of the Gentiles will be closed because perfection will have come then, in the person of Yeshua. Justin
Justin and Johanna
New Member
Tongues is an invitation for the unbeliever to get saved. See examples in Acts and Isaiah 28:11. According to Jude, tongues is your most holy faith in private. Tongues in church is for interpretation, to be interpreted for the building of the body of Christ, bringing it to maturity. Jude 1:20, 1 corinthians 14:22 so you have all three uses for tongues. tongues of men, tongues of angels, and the secret tongue of God the Father. Justin
Justin and Johanna
New Member
since this is the testimonial forum...
I spoke in tongues walking around a tarot card place, quietly speaking in tongues and the owner came out and told me i was disrupting their readings by my praying in tongues (my presence, says Yah). When the guy came out, he was going to call the cops because I was disrupting. I asked him how he knew I was speaking tongues, and he said he knew because I shut the readings and all the demonic powers down. So, this is a tesimony about speaking in tongues. I was simply testing as an experiment, to see if this was real. And I found that it is true. God has all power. Justin
I personally feel the Holy spirit when I speak in tongues. I have met a pastor who had the Holy spirit come on him in a service (a Baptist southern man) and he said a woman got saved! She could only speak the polish tongue. When the Holy spirit came on him, he shared the gospel in Polish. Praise God! Johanna
I spoke in tongues walking around a tarot card place, quietly speaking in tongues and the owner came out and told me i was disrupting their readings by my praying in tongues (my presence, says Yah). When the guy came out, he was going to call the cops because I was disrupting. I asked him how he knew I was speaking tongues, and he said he knew because I shut the readings and all the demonic powers down. So, this is a tesimony about speaking in tongues. I was simply testing as an experiment, to see if this was real. And I found that it is true. God has all power. Justin
I personally feel the Holy spirit when I speak in tongues. I have met a pastor who had the Holy spirit come on him in a service (a Baptist southern man) and he said a woman got saved! She could only speak the polish tongue. When the Holy spirit came on him, he shared the gospel in Polish. Praise God! Johanna
@Justin and Johanna
Good testimony. Without a doubt, the enemy knows the truth of the matter even though you find many 'christians' who don't.
Stranger
Good testimony. Without a doubt, the enemy knows the truth of the matter even though you find many 'christians' who don't.
Stranger
Also the Scriptures today are complete, while in the days of the Acts of the Apostles they were not yet complete.
The Word of God is not complete until is written by God in a person's heart and has done all of the work to be done in that person's heart. When will that be finished in every included person? Perhaps when each and every one has moved from the as through a glass darkly to the face to face. Will the gift of tongues help anyone in this process? Will any gift of God help in this process? What gift of God should be thrown out as unnecessary to this process?
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
That is a rather simplistic statement, since there is not a single Bible-believing Christian who does not believe that one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is the gift of speaking supernaturally in a foreign language (which has never been learned before). That is precisely what we see in Acts 2.
But 75% of all Christians today are neither Pentecostal nor Charismatic, which means that according to your simplistic idea they *don't believe God*. Which as you can see is TOTAL NONSENSE.
Now we are entering the realm of Mysticism. Ever since Christ and the apostles were on earth the written Word of God was also *the Holy Scriptures*, and Jesus never taught that unless Scripture was written on the hearts of believers it would be incomplete. Quite the opposite.
Indeed, He confirm that the 24 books of the Hebrew Tanakh (39 in our Old Testaments) spoke of Him and revealed Him. Then the Holy Spirit gave us the 27 books of the New Testament, and the apostle John closed the canon of Scripture around AD 95. And Paul clearly said that ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD (2 Tim 3:16).
Regarding what is written on the hearts and minds of believers, it would be the Ten Commandments, and as Paul said "Love is the fulfilling of the Law" (the Ten Commandments).
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
How is the Sabbath written on our hearts? I have my own answer to that, just wondering what you think.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Another question, now that the canon is closed are we to obey the Word of God or disregard it now that it is closed? How about 1 Corinthians 14:39? How about 1 Corinthians 12. Should we just tear that chapter out of our Bible?
Matthew 5:18
18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."
Here Jesus is teaching "covenant theology." Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant and it passed away. We are in a New Covenant and nothing inside our covenant will cease until all is fulfilled again at His second coming. Jesus is the only one who can start or end a Biblical covenant. He is God.
Cessationism is clueless regarding covenants, and have clung onto doctrines of demons designed to weaken the body of Christ. The gifts are to strengthen us, individually and corporately.
and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”
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There is absolutely no question that Christians are to obey the Word of God. But again, context is critical. While the Lord was on earth the Law of Moses was binding on all Jews (and His disciples). That is no longer the case. For Christians there are only four directives from the Law of Moses which are binding (Acts 15). The Law of Christ is now in effect and the Holy Spirit enables Christians to obey that Law.
Again while the apostles were on earth and the Bible was incomplete, prophecies, tongues, and supernatural knowledge were all necessary within the churches. But then Paul --speaking prophetically -- said this:
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect [COMPLETE] is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. (1 Cor 13:8-10)
Now that we have a complete Bible, God does not give any more genuine prophecies (and John made that crystal clear at the end of Revelation).
So getting back to 1 Cor 14:39 -- Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues -- we need to ask ourselves" "In the light of 1 Cor 13:8-10, does this apply in the 21st century or was it for the 1st century?" And the answer should be obvious.
Prophecy is actually divinely inspired words --words of God and words from God (whether spoken or written). So if any church claimed to have a prophet, all of Christendom would need to accept that as the Word of God. But the reality is that there can be no more prophets or prophecies. The same applies to (genuine) tongues. Indeed none of the Apostolic Fathers (whose writings are available from the 1st and 2nd centuries) claimed to be either prophets or tongue-speakers.
The spiritual gifts for today are evangelists, pastors, and teachers (along with many other gifts not related to the ministry of the Word). The OT = Prophets and the NT = Apostles (and Prophets). And the written Word of God is sufficient for all Christian needs (2 Tim 3:16,17).
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Do you know what a covenant is? It is like a will and testament. While Jesus was on earth, He LIVED under the old covenant while teaching the New Covenant that would not come into effect until His death, like any other will and testament.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
I know what you've been taught, but it goes against covenant theology. I really wish you could grasp that. I used to believe as you do about 1 Cor. 13:8, but then I read to the end of the chapter and the Spirit showed me the truth - FACE TO FACE is the second coming. Nothing will cease until then.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Are you saying the covenant ended upon John's death? Then what covenant came after the apostles for us?
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Hebrews 9:17 KJV
[17] For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Tecarta BibleI’m saying it the new Testament was complete. John was the last one
I would guess that I could not change your mind about all of this. Mysticism?
Would you deny the possibility of a direct connection with God on a day to day, moment to moment basis? Rather than the Ten Commandments alone, I would say that is could be all of the Word of God that we have consumed and that the Holy Spirit has quickened within us. Is it all contained with the 10? Perhaps, but I cannot say I have all of God's answer to every question. If you can, I am pleased for you.
Give God the glory!
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