Why do we need priests?

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Pearl

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We see that the ideal situation would be if a man acted as priest or spiritual leader for his family. I think that was true then and is true now. We see that most men back then were unable to perform that role, so a new kind of priesthood was given; and then the question is how many men today are qualified to act as priests for their families. For example, what does a believing wife do if she has a nonbelieving husband? Who is going to act as her spiritual covering?
We are all part of the Royal priesthood.
 
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Giuliano

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We are all part of the Royal priesthood.
That tells me that some people need priests. I think we should hope for the time that they will come to know Jesus so they no longer need people to intercede for them.

One of my problems with "priests" is when they want to keep their spots of "authority" over others. It's as if they don't want other people to advance in the kingdom, since it might mean they'd lose their jobs.
 

Nancy

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That tells me that some people need priests. I think we should hope for the time that they will come to know Jesus so they no longer need people to intercede for them.

One of my problems with "priests" is when they want to keep their spots of "authority" over others. It's as if they don't want other people to advance in the kingdom, since it might mean they'd lose their jobs.

"...is when they want to keep their spots of "authority" over others."
An old Church of mine was rife with this kind of thing. Some folks would be working in the same ministry for years, some for decades and, boy they do not like change. For instance, I do not have many talents, partially because of 2 accidents in the 80's, as I am limited in what I am able to do but...I am a pretty good cook and love to cook for large groups. I wanted so bad to be able to help in the kitchen there but, was never allowed to...even got attitude from the women who were holding on to that position like their lives depended on it. So, nobody wanted to "share" the work with anyone else leaving many without a special helps ministry within the body. They "owned" the position. Was disappointing.
At a different Church now and there are TONS of opportunities to serve. Just waiting on God to guide me into one of two ministries...I know He will open that door.

 

Giuliano

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"...is when they want to keep their spots of "authority" over others."
An old Church of mine was rife with this kind of thing. Some folks would be working in the same ministry for years, some for decades and, boy they do not like change. For instance, I do not have many talents, partially because of 2 accidents in the 80's, as I am limited in what I am able to do but...I am a pretty good cook and love to cook for large groups. I wanted so bad to be able to help in the kitchen there but, was never allowed to...even got attitude from the women who were holding on to that position like their lives depended on it. So, nobody wanted to "share" the work with anyone else leaving many without a special helps ministry within the body. They "owned" the position. Was disappointing.
At a different Church now and there are TONS of opportunities to serve. Just waiting on God to guide me into one of two ministries...I know He will open that door.
It's strange, isn't it? It's as if people get so caught up in their own importance that they forget why they're supposed to be doing
things.
 

Philip James

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One of my problems with "priests" is when they want to keep their spots of "authority" over others. It's as if they don't want other people to advance in the kingdom, since it might mean they'd lose their jobs.

Interesting. Have you met many priests like this?
I have met many who are nothing but encouraging in helping us deepen our walk with the Lord, or helping to discern our vocation..

As for 'keeping' authority, i'm not sure a bishop has much of a choice. He has a responsibilty to shephard the people under his care, and will have to answer for any that are lost do to his actions or lack thereof.

I certainly wouldnt want that authority. I screw up enough shepharding the 6 that God has placed under my care.

Peace!
 

Marymog

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"First and foremost: 1 John 2:27 27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

The Holy Spirit is our teacher...why would I go to a fallible man when I can now go directly to His throne directly? Yes, we are to confess our sins to ONE ANOTHER...not some guy behind a curtain...really?? My prayers are pretty much ALL intercessory, and funny thing, they get ANSWERED...sooooo...what am I doing wrong here Mary? Just because the "Catholic" Church says I must go through a person to have my sins forgiven?? Say 5 hail Mary's, an our Father , act of contrition...is this some kind of magic formula? Mmmnah, I'll stick with what I know for sure as He manifests as He say's He will. I do not much care for the so called forefathers as they had error the second Jesus ascended to heaven...all manner of heresy entered...ya know, back when the "forefathers" were on the scene...God and only God instructs me, not YOU and certainly not the CC.
Hi Nancy,

1st: Three verses earlier in verse 24 it says, Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. If we are to only follow the testimony of the Holy Spirit then John would be contradicting himself in verse 24. The instruction to let what they’ve heard abide in them implies they received instruction from men. Two chapters later John instructs his readers that listening to the apostles is the criterion for discerning the spirit of truth from the spirit of error: “We are of God. Whoever knows God listens to us, and he who is not of God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error” (1 John 4:6).

According to Matthew 18:15-17 one is not a part of the Christian community unless he adheres to the official teaching of the Church.

“They went out from us, but they were not of us” (1 John 2:19). That passage implies there are true teachers that Christians ought to listen to. And you already know the passages about sound doctrine, teachingings passed down to other good men and false doctrine taught by wolves sooooooo I won't bore you by repeating them. I don't see where your theory holds up to the teachings of scripture. The Council of Jerusalem is also an example of the elders (men) of The Church being our teacher for what is True. Not you deciding. Not me deciding. The Church decides!

2nd: If the Holy Spirit is your teacher and my teacher and Joe's teacher and your neighbors teacher and the Popes teacher and Luther's teacher etc. etc. BUT certainly not the CC teacher; WHY is the Holy Spirit/God telling all of us something different?

3rd: John 20:23 destroys your confession to man theory.

4th: How is it the men who lived closest to the time of Christ are wrong about this and the men who lived 1,500 years later right?

Curious Mary
 
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Marymog

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BTW-I am speaking of the intercessor of us between God and His people...do NOT need a human being...please. And for the record, I do not care about the "index" of my bibles, I only read scripture which is GOD BREATHED, it is a LIVING word, not a dead one that we must need a human being to burden us with what Jesus already freed us from. You can put ALL your faith in a bunch of men, I choose the real thing, the Holy Spirit. Don't bother starting on all of the splintered groups out there, God knows who is truly His and, many will be chosen from ALL denominations. The CC is NOT my judge, maybe yours but most definitely NOT mine.
Well, you got the index of your bible from men who debated what should be in your bible soooooo whether you care or not it doesn't change the FACTS. We rely on men who fulfill Matthew 18:18
 
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brakelite

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Not you deciding. Not me deciding. The Church decides!

... If the Holy Spirit is your teacher and my teacher and Joe's teacher and your neighbors teacher and the Popes teacher and Luther's teacher etc. etc. BUT certainly not the CC teacher; WHY is the Holy Spirit/God telling all of us something different?
Putting your eternal destiny in the hands of finite mortal sinful men is not just risky, it's self destructive. And the holy Spirit isn't the teacher of all who claim Him as their Teacher. Did the holy Spirit teach the Catholic church to persecute those who disagreed with what she taught? Did the holy Spirit teach Luther to hate Jews? Did the holy Spirit teach Calvin to have other Christians killed? Did the holy Spirit teach Innocent III to wipe out entire communities of non Catholic Christians? We can all point to details in peoples lives , and church histories, where it is clear the holy Spirit was definitely not working. I remember times when I also chose to ignore the holy Spirit and made mistakes...however, and this is a big HOWEVER, because God is faithful, He proved His own promises to be true by leading me around to repentance and validating scripture which says all things work together for good for them who love God and who are called according to His purpose.
I have put my life solely in God's hands. Yes, I listen to other men teachings. Sermons. Books. And not all of them I agree with. Why? Because we are human, and we all make mistakes...and we all err on different points. But there are some who I trust more than others, because their lives testify to their relationship with the Master. But I don't place my life in their hands, trusting in their teachings to save me. my faith is in Christ and Him alone. I trust Him to tell me when something is amiss, such as when I was a young Christian and attended mass for the first time in several years, and picked up a book of Mormon for the first time a year or two later not knowing who Mormons were, and then a few years later again gaining a different insight into the Pentecostal movement as a result of the Spirit abiding within, and rejecting those faith paths to search for something deeper and more meaningful, and closer to the truth. Now if these experiences have resulted in any growth in right living, or the opposite, the development of a character devoid of morals and integrity, I leave for others to decide. But Jesus promised peace to the righteous, and none to the wicked. And He promises to abide with us wherever we go. He has kept that promise. And I don't doubt He will continue to do so. You on the other hand seem to doubt very much if Jesus can guide and lead anyone without the help of a Catholic priest or Catholic church council. I say He will use anyone who is willing to be filled by His Spirit and who seeks Truth and righteousness above all other things. No where along the path I have trod the last 45 years would I give man, or the church, any credit for where, and who I am today. To God be the glory.
 

marksman

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We see that the ideal situation would be if a man acted as priest or spiritual leader for his family. I think that was true then and is true now. We see that most men back then were unable to perform that role, so a new kind of priesthood was given; and then the question is how many men today are qualified to act as priests for their families. For example, what does a believing wife do if she has a nonbelieving husband? Who is going to act as her spiritual covering?

The priesthood of all believers is in relation to the church. Note it says ALL believers, not just men.

If a believing wife has a nonbelieving husband she obeys him as I have heard enough stories of this happening and as a result, the husband has come to the lord because of his wife's humility and gentleness.

And that applies to parents and children. I know of one 15 yo girl who was a believer and her parents weren't. They forbad her to go to church and she complied. Twelve months later they rescinded their order and even went to the church with her and were converted.
 

Giuliano

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Interesting. Have you met many priests like this?
I have met many who are nothing but encouraging in helping us deepen our walk with the Lord, or helping to discern our vocation..
I was not thinking of Catholic priests when I wrote that. That's why I put the word in quotes. I think Nancy understood me -- it can apply to anyone hanging onto a position to feel important.

As for 'keeping' authority, i'm not sure a bishop has much of a choice. He has a responsibilty to shephard the people under his care, and will have to answer for any that are lost do to his actions or lack thereof.

I certainly wouldnt want that authority. I screw up enough shepharding the 6 that God has placed under my care.

Peace!
Bishops today face the more unpleasant choice of serving their congregations or serving Rome. It used to be that bishops were allowed to hold their positions irrespective of age. That changed when it became obvious that some weren't resigning even when they were too sick or feeble to do their jobs. They were clinging to their jobs when they should have resigned. The new policy didn't really the solve the problem since now bishops offer their resignations at a certain age; and if the Vatican likes them, they're asked to stay on. That puts the pressure on bishops to worry more about what people in the Vatican think of them than about their congregations if they want to keep their jobs.

Then there are the ambitious member of the clergy. Someone can be a bishop in a small diocese; and if he wants a more important position, again he'll worry more about what Rome thinks about him than about tending his pastoral duties. It's a problem that Pope Francis has acknowledged.
 
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Giuliano

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The priesthood of all believers is in relation to the church. Note it says ALL believers, not just men.

If a believing wife has a nonbelieving husband she obeys him as I have heard enough stories of this happening and as a result, the husband has come to the lord because of his wife's humility and gentleness.

And that applies to parents and children. I know of one 15 yo girl who was a believer and her parents weren't. They forbad her to go to church and she complied. Twelve months later they rescinded their order and even went to the church with her and were converted.
I've seen things like that happen in my own family.

Women and children can do wondrous things, can't they? They do that, not by being bossy or rebellious against husbands or parents, but by remaining quietly and calmly under proper spiritual authority which isn't present in their homes. Love never fails.
 

Giuliano

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Putting your eternal destiny in the hands of finite mortal sinful men is not just risky, it's self destructive. And the holy Spirit isn't the teacher of all who claim Him as their Teacher. Did the holy Spirit teach the Catholic church to persecute those who disagreed with what she taught? Did the holy Spirit teach Luther to hate Jews? Did the holy Spirit teach Calvin to have other Christians killed? Did the holy Spirit teach Innocent III to wipe out entire communities of non Catholic Christians? We can all point to details in peoples lives , and church histories, where it is clear the holy Spirit was definitely not working. I remember times when I also chose to ignore the holy Spirit and made mistakes...however, and this is a big HOWEVER, because God is faithful, He proved His own promises to be true by leading me around to repentance and validating scripture which says all things work together for good for them who love God and who are called according to His purpose.
I have put my life solely in God's hands. Yes, I listen to other men teachings. Sermons. Books. And not all of them I agree with. Why? Because we are human, and we all make mistakes...and we all err on different points. But there are some who I trust more than others, because their lives testify to their relationship with the Master. But I don't place my life in their hands, trusting in their teachings to save me. my faith is in Christ and Him alone. I trust Him to tell me when something is amiss, such as when I was a young Christian and attended mass for the first time in several years, and picked up a book of Mormon for the first time a year or two later not knowing who Mormons were, and then a few years later again gaining a different insight into the Pentecostal movement as a result of the Spirit abiding within, and rejecting those faith paths to search for something deeper and more meaningful, and closer to the truth. Now if these experiences have resulted in any growth in right living, or the opposite, the development of a character devoid of morals and integrity, I leave for others to decide. But Jesus promised peace to the righteous, and none to the wicked. And He promises to abide with us wherever we go. He has kept that promise. And I don't doubt He will continue to do so. You on the other hand seem to doubt very much if Jesus can guide and lead anyone without the help of a Catholic priest or Catholic church council. I say He will use anyone who is willing to be filled by His Spirit and who seeks Truth and righteousness above all other things. No where along the path I have trod the last 45 years would I give man, or the church, any credit for where, and who I am today. To God be the glory.

It is good at first to absorb what we can from others; but there is a time too when we need to start thinking for ourselves.

1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

I don't care that much if people agree with me. What if I am wrong? And even if I'm right, God will show them the truth if they're sincere and need to know it. I don't need to convince them. The most I can do is say something and hope it makes sense to other people. If I'm right, the Spirit will tell them so.
 
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Marymog

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"brakelite, post: 619788, member: 6216"]Putting your eternal destiny in the hands of finite mortal sinful men is not just risky, it's self destructive. .... To God be the glory.
Putting your eternal destiny YOUR hands (a finite mortal sinful man) is not just risky, it's self destructive
 

Philip James

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That puts the pressure on bishops to worry more about what people in the Vatican think of them than about their congregations if they want to keep their jobs.

Any bishop who worries more about what someone else thinks (vatican or otherwise) than about the pastoral care of the sheep entrusted to him, is likely to fail in his charge. It is not the Vatican that he will answer to, if any of the sheep are lost due to his actions (or inactions)

But this raises a question: do we have a duty to be obedient to our bishop only when he is performing his office well, or even more so if he is stumbling?
Is it not our place to hold up his tiring arms that the battle not go against us?

The bishop will answer for how he excercised his office, as will we answer for our own obedience or lack thereof...

Peace be with you!
 

Giuliano

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Will the Spirit also tell us if your wrong?

Mary
I hope so. If I make a statement that could cause someone else to stumble, I hope the Holy Spirit would tell those who can hear Him that I'm wrong.
 

Giuliano

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Any bishop who worries more about what someone else thinks (vatican or otherwise) than about the pastoral care of the sheep entrusted to him, is likely to fail in his charge. It is not the Vatican that he will answer to, if any of the sheep are lost due to his actions (or inactions)

But this raises a question: do we have a duty to be obedient to our bishop only when he is performing his office well, or even more so if he is stumbling?
Is it not our place to hold up his tiring arms that the battle not go against us?

The bishop will answer for how he excercised his office, as will we answer for our own obedience or lack thereof...

Peace be with you!
The shepherd is supposed to take care of his sheep, not vice versa.
 
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brakelite

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Putting your eternal destiny YOUR hands (a finite mortal sinful man) is not just risky, it's self destructive
KJV Hebrews 4
We Have a Compassionate High Priest
14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
 

Berserk

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As good academic commentaries on the Fourth Gospel point out, Jesus' theology of Eucharist refutes the notion that consumption of Communion bread and wine is a merely symbolic act:

"For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink (John 6:55)."

Here Jesus offends His disciples by teaching that the liturgical act performed in faith establishes a real intimate mystical connection with Him. The result of eating Communion bread and wine is a renewal of Christ's abiding presence, which can be severed by our failure to meditate on our need for His indwelling presence:

"Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood abide in me, and I in them (6:56)."

It is not enough to rely of Christ's constant forgiveness for our chronic sinning. This forgiveness requires confession to other believers, though not necessarily to a man formally identified as a priest:
"...Anyone who has committed sins will be forgiven. Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, so h==that you may be healed (James 5:15-16)." God ultimately does the forgiving, but the humbling self-exposure of confession to other believers in their priestly role helps make the confession and repentance real and in that sense enables other believers to help mediate divine pardon. Indeed, it is in this sense that the risen Jesus' mandate to His disciples is to be understood:

"He breathed on them and said to them: "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained (John 20:22-23)."

The impartation of the Spirit provides the discernment to determine if the confession and repentance are real, and such correct discernment makes the priestly disciple's word law in the universe.

The act of Holy Communion establishes a unique intimate connection with the Lord. So incincere participation that overlooks the need for confession imperils the believer:

"Examine yourselves and only then eat the bread and drink the cup. For all who eat and drink without discerning the body eat amd drink judgment against themselves. For this reason, many of you are weak and ill, and some have died (1 Corinthians 11:28-30)."

The sacramental act as means of breaking Satanic bonds that shackle the demonically possessed. In our community, many Evangelicals have left their churches to find Christ real in the Catholic Mass. The Catholic grasp of the importance of Holy Communion renders the erroneous metaphysics of their doctrine of Transubstantiation trivial in comparison with damage done by the trivialization of this sacramental act by many Evangelicals.
 
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Nancy

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I've seen things like that happen in my own family.

Women and children can do wondrous things, can't they? They do that, not by being bossy or rebellious against husbands or parents, but by remaining quietly and calmly under proper spiritual authority which isn't present in their homes. Love never fails.

Little story about one of my brothers. My parents (Mom, really) left the CC when I was like 11 years old. She started taking us to a Lutheran Church. When I turned about 15 yrs. old...I stopped going with her. There was much to do at that Church over money being directed towards something ungodly and I cannot remember now what it was but, she left there and went to an Assemblies of God Church. Back to my brother.
He was the first of us siblings to become saved, I think he was 19 or 20 when he became sold out for Jesus...sadly, he was ALSO sold out for a very nice and pretty Catholic girl. She is sweet and a very kind and gentle spirit. IF, my bro would have acted a Godly man and IF he did not start to harp on her beliefs, and break her Catholic statues...I do believe she and he would be worshiping God together and their marriage would have turned out much differently. He thought he could badger her into protestant belief in his own strength. Well, it backfired and they now, even though still married, have a less than stellar marriage. He totally took it out of the hands of Gods Holy Spirit. Of course now that he's in his 50's, he lives in regret for how he treated the whole thing from the git go. I keep telling him NOTHING is impossible for God, even fixing the messes we get our selves into...his aim to convert her was not his job to do! "Do not be unequally yolked"...at the time of his marriage, I think he was convinced he could "convert" her.
Oh how we seem to learn the hard way!
 
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