Is there salvation outside the Catholic Church?

[BreadOfLife]

Mmmm, are you saying all Roman Catholics are Christians?

Every Baptized Catholic is a Christian, yes.
Same goes for every Baptized Protestant. This doesn’t include the vast number of pseudo-Christian sects that deny the Trinity.

Whether they are Christians in good standing is another story . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yep, that's the lie you've been saying alright.

It’s not a “lie” – it’s an observation based on established historical fact.

Some of your views were invented in the 16th century – and some of them were invented after.

 

[Yehren]

Mmmm, are you saying all Roman Catholics are Christians?

Yes, since you couldn't be a Roman Catholic without believing the Nicene Creed. I suppose there are some who just pose as Christians, but then they wouldn't really be Roman Catholics, would they?

 

[Yehren]

well, so you say, but i hafta disagree wadr. Christian is after all a very subjective label, yeh?

Well, for example, Mormons consider themselves Christians. But the usual definition is one who believes the Nicene Creed.

For instance you recog Some Guy between you and Christ,

Holy Spirit? No, that's a misconception. While the Holy Spirit is active among us, we can directly worship and pray to Christ.

yet you consider yourself a Christian, yes?

See above. The Creed is what marks one as a Christian.

I know that some denominations like Mormons, have moved away from that. So if you're Mormon, or something like that, maybe you don't consider Apostolic Christians to be "real Christians."

Not throwing dirt on your beliefs. Nostra Aetea makes that clear.

 

[ScottA]

It’s not a “lie” – it’s an observation based on established historical fact.

Some of your views were invented in the 16th century – and some of them were invented after.

Another lie.

 

[Berserk]

I am appalled by the bigotry and the simple-minded misguided perspectives on Catholic distinctives that are generally evidenced on evangelical chat boards. I have tried to bring some sanity to these sites by developing threads on the biblical basis for Catholic distinctives, but my last thread on another evangelical site was quickly banned because the evangelical respondents were enraged by these biblical prooftexts of which they were either oblivious or for which they had no answers. I say this as an evangelical Methodist (Pentecostal by experience) who once successfully sued Catholics.
Bread of Life, would you like me to start a similar thread on the biblical underpinnings of Catholic distinctives on this site to see how long it is permitted to continue?

 

[brakelite]

You implied that neither @Marymog nor I consider Protestants as brothers and sisters in Christ.

Unless you are completely unable to communicate in English – this is exactly what you implied.

Oh – and I never called you a “liar”.
Never called you anything . . .

Don't know means don't know. How clear can that be?

 

[brakelite]

Yes, since you couldn't be a Roman Catholic without believing the Nicene Creed. I suppose there are some who just pose as Christians, but then they wouldn't really be Roman Catholics, would they?

I simply cannot imagine God judging whether one is a Christian based on whether that individual accepts a man made formula for the Godhead that wasn't understood by those who wrote it, and couldn't use the formula to give understanding to anyone else.

 

[Yehren]

I simply cannot imagine God judging whether one is a Christian based on whether that individual accepts a man made formula for the Godhead that wasn't understood by those who wrote it

It's just a statement of what we, as Christians believe. I don't see what's so hard about it.

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.


We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

(What's hard to understand about that?)

 

[bbyrd009]

Well, for example, Mormons consider themselves Christians. But the usual definition is one who believes the Nicene Creed.

ah, so.
Who made that definition?

Holy Spirit? No, that's a misconception. While the Holy Spirit is active among us, we can directly worship and pray to Christ.

no Yehren, the Holy Spirit is not a person, Some Guy, and the pope is not the Holy Spirit that i am aware of, unless he has usurped that title also? But you are teaching me a lesson here, as i have used deliberate misunderstanding in the recent past myself. I hope not so baldly tho?

Didn't realize how disingenuous it reads, guess i owe some apologies there

So if you're Mormon, or something like that, maybe you don't consider Apostolic Christians to be "real Christians."

"Real Christians" is as subjective to me as "Christians" Yehren, and tbh the only real interaction i have with anyone who wears either on their sleeve is herenow. Same with those who have "love" on their lips, usually the same bunch.
The Real Christians to me are generally completely unaware of it, or else just dont care, might even ID as atheist or whatever. Talk is cheap. We have turned confession into profession now imo, meh

"your love's like rhinestones, falling from the sky"
not you necessarily ok, thats a quote
loved the trump/flag thing, LOL

 

[Yehren]

Barbarian observes:
Well, for example, Mormons consider themselves Christians. But the usual definition is one who believes the Nicene Creed.

ah, so.
Who made that definition?

Christians.

no Yehren, the Holy Spirit is not a person,

To a trinitarian Christian, He is. Three persons in one God. Is that where the problem lies? If you're an Arian Christian, I'm not throwing dirt on you, I'm just pointing out that orthodox Christians are trinitarian.

Some Guy, and the pope is not the Holy Spirit

Ya think? You're learning, now.

But you are teaching me a lesson here,

I thought everyone knew that Christians are trinitarians.

as i have used deliberate misunderstanding in the recent past myself.

Ah, so that's what that "guy between you and God" stuff was about. You were just trying to get a reaction. Problem is, the way you wrote it, would be interpreted by a trinitarian Christian to be a slap at the Holy Spirit.

Good idea to know your target, um?

Didn't realize how disingenuous it reads, guess i owe some apologies there

No problem. Turned out to be a chuckle generator.

"Real Christians" is as subjective to me as "Christians" Yehren,

We do have some common characteristics. Trinitarian is just one of them. Do you know the historical basis for the creeds? It came about during the persecutions of Christians, wherein some gnostics and others were saying that it was O.K. to change your beliefs or even to deny being Christian in order to escape punishment. The first creeds were summaries of what we believed, to keep that from drifting off into mere religion. So it's important now, as it was then.

The truth matters. It should especially matter to a Christian. It's true enough, as Jesus repeatedly reminded us, that His people were not necessarily those who called on Him, but rather who did the will of the Father. If that's your point, it's a good one.

 

[Enoch111]

Bread of Life, would you like me to start a similar thread on the biblical underpinnings of Catholic distinctives on this site to see how long it is permitted to continue?

That's rich. "The biblical underpinnings". If that were really the case there would have been no Protestant Reformation.

The fact is that the Catholic Church rejected the true Gospel and rejected the Five Solas. And those are the biblical underpinnings.

 

[bbyrd009]

Christians

yeh, ezackly.

Three persons in one God.

no "persons" in God per Scripture, i could dig up the vv if you like. But imo obv God is way out of our league? This "persons in God" is not Supportable any kind of way imo

Ya think? You're learning, now.

sorry, i cant make this reply make any sense in th context of

Some Guy, and the pope is not the Holy Spirit

I thought everyone knew that Christians are trinitarians.

careful what you know, i guess. I know of a trinity, and your masters are intimately involved in it, but you wouldnt like the ref i guess. You might Gimagesearch "London, Vatican, Washington DC for that, if you like

Ah, so that's what that "guy between you and God" stuff was about.

wadr "the pope" seemed the obv ref there?
love the current one btw dont get me wrong

Good idea to know your target, um?

target? hmm. I have no targets anymore, Y, i love Catholics too, volunteer @Catholic Charities, yadayada

We do have some common characteristics. Trinitarian is just one of them.

"Trinity" as you understand it is straight from hell imo. Constantinian yack. be One, as We are One imo, and leave the trinity to the phallus-makers; would you like a pitcher?

Do you know the historical basis for the creeds? It came about during the persecutions of Christians, wherein some gnostics and others were saying that it was O.K. to change your beliefs or even to deny being Christian in order to escape punishment. The first creeds were summaries of what we believed,

beliefs are a pimple on the forehead of understanding, imo, and there is no judgement whatsoever for beliefs in Scripture, at least that i can find? Unless we read in English of course, wherein most instances of pistis have been scribed into "belief"

So it's important now, as it was then.

so then you have two Some Guys between you and Christ i guess

The truth matters

what is currently true will (may) shortly be false, i guess

It's true enough, as Jesus repeatedly reminded us, that His people were not necessarily those who called on Him, but rather who did the will of the Father. If that's your point, it's a good one.

"like"

 

[Yehren]

Arians are Christians too, I suppose.

 

[bbyrd009]

Every Baptized Catholic is a Christian, yes.
Same goes for every Baptized Protestant. This doesn’t include the vast number of pseudo-Christian sects that deny the Trinity.

Whether they are Christians in good standing is another story . . .

blind or stupid, which?

Oh – and I never called you a “liar”.

lol, priceless.

you have to say that like fitty times a day huh
can you say "DENIAL" BoL?

 

[bbyrd009]

I am appalled by the bigotry and the simple-minded misguided perspectives on Catholic distinctives that are generally evidenced on evangelical chat boards. I have tried to bring some sanity to these sites by developing threads on the biblical basis for Catholic distinctives, but my last thread on another evangelical site was quickly banned because the evangelical respondents were enraged by these biblical prooftexts of which they were either oblivious or for which they had no answers. I say this as an evangelical Methodist (Pentecostal by experience) who once successfully sued Catholics.
Bread of Life, would you like me to start a similar thread on the biblical underpinnings of Catholic distinctives on this site to see how long it is permitted to continue?

why not just stop mixing cultures, and let Catholics be Catholics behind their own border stones,
someone will ask

 

[BreadOfLife]

Don't know means don't know. How clear can that be?

Another cop-out.
What a surprise . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

View attachment 7405
blind or stupid, which?

lol, priceless.

you have to say that like fitty times a day huh
can you say "DENIAL" BoL?

I don’t “have” to say anything.
I’m saying it to remind all of you to stop lying.

As for your question regarding the pictures of the three obelisks you posted – the obelisk in St. Peter’s Square is different than the others because it has a CROSS at the top. This cross signifies the victory of Christ and Christianity over Roman paganism.

So – to answer your question: I’d say, “Blind and stupid” – on YOUR part . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

That's rich. "The biblical underpinnings". If that were really the case there would have been no Protestant Reformation.

The fact is that the Catholic Church rejected the true Gospel and rejected the Five Solas. And those are the biblical underpinnings.

Wrong.

There is absolutely ZERO Biblical support for Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide.
The fact that Luther had to add the word “alone” to Rom. 3:23 is evidence of this.

Of the 3 greatest virtues we possess as Christians, Paul, writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit wrote that LOVE – NOT Faith was the greatest (1 Cor. 13:13).
He also wrote that the only faith that counts is faith that WORKS THROUGH LOVE (Gal. 5:6).

As for the other 16th century invention of Sola Scriptura – there isn't ONE single verse in ALL of Scripture that states that Scripture is our sole Authority.
HOWEVER – there are SEVERAL passages that explicitly calls the CHURCH the supreme Authority on earth (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

YOUR turn . . .

 

[epostle]

That's rich. "The biblical underpinnings". If that were really the case there would have been no Protestant Reformation.

The fact is that the Catholic Church rejected the true Gospel and rejected the Five Solas. And those are the biblical underpinnings.

The Catholic Church has always had the last 3 solas. The so called reformers borrowed them wholesale to beef up the first two inventions. You change the "facts" by changing history, to force fit history to match your man made system. That's one reason why you ignore the Early Church Fathers, pretending their writings are meaningless.