Interpretation Methods

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Jay Ross

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We can't simply spiritualize away plain Bible truth. The land is literally the land, the earth is literally the earth, and the heart is metaphorically the heart (meaning the soul or the innermost being, not the organ that pumps blood).

Unless we accept Scripture in its plain literal senses, we will all be AT SEA.

And I agree with this post of yours, However, the truth of the matter is that where "hā·’ā·reṣ" is translated as the " earth" in Gen 1-11, 68 times as "earth", logically as you have suggested in your rebuttal to the question that I had posed to you, the translators, now for your claimed logical reason, translate it as "land," which is illogical in that they have forced another meaning onto the Hebrew word "hā·’ā·reṣ", which suggests that they were probably following the Jewish tradition and understanding where that tradition became obsessed with the "Promised Land" always being theirs, which was never God's intent, which the translators chose to follow as evidenced by how they translated "hā·’ā·reṣ" in the later chapters and books using the whim selection process.

As you stated above, because the translators have not been consistent in their translations of the Hebrew words but have translated the Hebrew Text by assuming logical understandings we are all at sea, as you put it, with our translations because of the "scholars" interpretations.

Shalom
 
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Giuliano

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Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
 
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Jay Ross

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Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

I did quote this verse in it positional context from Isa 28 recently on this forum and yes if the Scriptures do become line upon line etc. within out own understanding, then we will fall backwards and be broken and snared and taken by the devil.
 
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CharismaticLady

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We can't simply spiritualize away plain Bible truth. The land is literally the land, the earth is literally the earth, and the heart is metaphorically the heart (meaning the soul or the innermost being, not the organ that pumps blood).

Unless we accept Scripture in its plain literal senses, we will all be AT SEA.

Plain literal sense, or what the apostle meant? Which is the truth about a Christian who has already been born again and ALL their sins are cleansed?

1 John 1:8 or 1 John 3:9. If someone cannot sin, is he a sinner, or as 1 John 3:1 says, children of God? They can't both be about Christians. So which do you relate to the most? I'm afraid for those who relate best to 1 John 1:8, and Romans 7.
 

John Caldwell

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Here is an example of what I am speaking of:

“My boy is playing with his car.”

A “literal” rendering is “my boy is playing with his car”.

Tim gives a more liberal rendering - “my boy is playing with his toy car”. This alleviates other possible interpretations by introducing one interpretation into the text by changing the text itself.

Jim may think a little more and realize that “boy” is a form of “man”, which can be used to mean “mankind” which refers to men and women. Jim may keep the words the same but insist that “boy” has a “special meaning” of “little girl” in this case. Jim has also alleviated other possibilities by introducing his interpretation into the text, but rather than changing the text itself Jim has redefined the words that are in the text.

Both Tim and Jim are wrong. My son is 16 years old and is playing around with his new vehicle in the driveway. But their “clarifications” eliminated the possibility that the true meaning would be conveyed.


That is just an illustration, but I hope it explains why I believe we have to be careful about what method we use in regard to God’s Word.
 

OzSpen

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On another thread @Anthony D'Arienzo brought up a good point when it comes to differing doctrines, and that is the hermenutical principles and methods used in interpreting Scripture.

@Anthony D'Arienzo rejected the "literal" or traditional method as subjecting God to a "dictionary". Instead of using the meaning conveyed by a words grammatical construction and historical context, @Anthony D'Arienzo suggested words in the biblical text have a different meaning - a "biblical meaning".

I need to be forthright and say I am a SBC baptist. As a denomination we have had experience with liberal hermeneutics that colors many of our perceptions to this sort of liberal interpretation.

I hold to a "literal" method of interpretation which asserts that the biblical text is to be interpreted according to the plain meaning conveyed by its grammatical construction and historical context

For this reason I do not believe in "biblical" meanings for words as opposed to "literal" meanings ("literal" being according to the plain meaning conveyed by its grammatical construction and historical context).

Holding a traditional view of Scripture I believe several interpretive factors come into play when we interpret a text. We have to determine the "plain meaning" of the word and its English equivalent (as best we can). But we also have to examine the historic context and consider how the text would be recieved by the original audience.

What we (traditionalists in this regard) NEVER do (as best we can help it) is assign to these words "biblical" meanings. We try NOT to read theology back into the text but attempt to derive theology from the text itself.

I believe that God spoke through the authors (Scripture is "God breathed") to include word choices (not to redefine words into a sort of bible code but to have a "literal" meaning).

I hope to have a discussion about the topic. I have a few questions for those who share @Anthony D'Arienzo 's position. I do not understand how those who employ the liberal method can help but be subjective in their interpretations as it seems they read theology and philosophy into the text itself.

John,

That's an exceptional response to some of the flimsy hermeneutics around these days.

Since my days in primary and secondary schools, seminary and university I learned that literal interpretation included figures of speech.

When I was in seminary way back in the early 1980s when, we used A Berkeley Mickelsen’s text on hermeneutics, Interpreting the Bible (1963 Eerdmans), he stated that for the School of Antioch, it used historical interpretation as not referring to wooden literalism as this included the full use of typology:

“Literal” here means the customarily acknowledged meaning of an expression in its particular context. For example, when Christ declared that he was the door, the metaphorical meaning of “door” in that context would be obvious. Although metaphorical, this obvious meaning is included in the literal meaning (Mickelsen 1963:33).?​

Therefore,

by literal meaning the writer refers to the usual or customary sense conveyed by words or expressions‘. The contrasting meaning is that of figurative: ‘By figurative meaning the writer has in mind the representation of one concept in terms of another because the nature of the two things compared allows such an analogy to be drawn‘ (Mickelsen 1963:179, emphasis in original).​

So when I read my local newspaper online, I assume that metaphors and similies are included in the literal meaning. This has been the case throughout my life. However, this is changing with postmodern, reader-response impositions on texts. Literal meaning of a text has often been thrown out the window by preachers who engage in allegorical preaching – thus destroying the literal meaning of a text. Allegorical preachers are close to the postmodern preachers of today who make a text mean whatever they want it to mean – and the more spiritual sounding the better.

I would be foolish to read Jesus' statement, 'I am the door', as meaning a little gate of wood. It was a metaphor and should be interpreted metaphorically - which is consistent with literal interpretation.

Blessings,
Oz
 

OzSpen

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Generally speaking, I think the first time a word is used in the Bible provides a clue about its "biblical" meaning, and that is generally consistent from Genesis to Revelation. Sometimes later passages will give us insight into the matter as well.

Giuliano,

Could you please help me to understand how you reached that conclusion?

Oz
 

Willie T

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Not if one understands that figures of speech are included in literal interpretation.
Have you ever checked out the meaning of the word, "literal?" You really can't stretch it to say whatever you hope it might. ("Figurative", "Metaphorical", and "Proverbial" all spring to mind in your notion.)
 
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OzSpen

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Of course JonC does what he does what he does best,which is to lie and bear false witness.
I do not hold a liberal view of scripture in any way.
That does not matter to a person who lies and seeks to undermine individuals who have pointed out his lies, and errors.
In times past I have repeatedly asked JonC to stop trying to speak for me.
He is a deluded stalker who cannot stop his sinful desire to make personal attacks in his smug condescending way.
Most times his posts are rambling double talk, that has no point except to slander people.
Pray for JonC to be restored to his right mind.

Anthony,

I don't know John Caldwell, apart from what he has posted in this thread.

Would you please refrain from engaging in accusations (lies, errors, deluded stalker, smug, rambling double talk, slander)? These are not words to edify people of God on this forum?

If he has committed any of these sins against you, please deal with them openly and in a Christ-like manner.

To accuse someone of not being in his 'right mind' and being asked to be restored to a right mind, is a real put down.

I encourage you to use this kind of language:

12 God has chosen you and made you his holy people. He loves you. So your new life should be like this: Show mercy to others. Be kind, humble, gentle, and patient. 13 Don’t be angry with each other, but forgive each other. If you feel someone has wronged you, forgive them. Forgive others because the Lord forgave you. 14 Together with these things, the most important part of your new life is to love each other. Love is what holds everything together in perfect unity. 15 Let the peace that Christ gives control your thinking. It is for peace that you were chosen to be together in one body. And always be thankful.

16 Let the teaching of Christ live inside you richly. Use all wisdom to teach and counsel each other. Sing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs with thankfulness in your hearts to God (Col 3:12-16 ERV).​

Blessings,
Oz
 

Enoch111

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Plain literal sense, or what the apostle meant? Which is the truth about a Christian who has already been born again and ALL their sins are cleansed?
Those who have been born again have actually had all their sins cleaned and their guilt removed. They are new creatures in Christ with a new nature. That is the quickened spirit indwelt by the Holy Spirit. That nature cannot sin.

At the same time the old Adamic nature has not been eradicated, which means that the possibility of sin from this *flesh* nature has not been eradicated. Christians would in fact be sinlessly perfect if this nature had been totally eradicated -- removed completely.

So Paul explains this dual nature in Romans 7:21-23, and shows that there is internal warfare:

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
[the new nature]
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. [the old nature]

For the flesh lusteth [strives or wars] against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. (Gal 5:17)

At the same time, the old nature cannot have dominion over the Christian because the indwelling Holy Spirit is more powerful. But in order for that power to be manifested, the Christian must crucify or mortify or put to death the old nature. And that is done by walking in the Spirit.

And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. (Gal 5:24,25)
 
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Giuliano

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Giuliano,

Could you please help me to understand how you reached that conclusion?

Oz
While each prophet has his own unique style, some things remain consistent or mostly consistent. If Heaven is consistent -- and I think it is -- then we should expect consistency in how words are used and how symbols are.
 
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OzSpen

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Have you ever checked out the meaning of the word, "literal?" You really can't stretch it to say whatever you hope it might. ("Figurative", "Metaphorical", and "Proverbial" all spring to mind in your notion.)

Willie,

That is an unfair and incorrect assessment of what I wrote. I said that literal interpretation included the use of figures of speech. I did not say literal translation includes making words figurative, proverbial and 'stretch(ing) it to say whatever you hope it might'.

I get peeved with people who make my writings say what I did not state. We are called to be open and honest with one another - caring. Eph 4:25 (ERV) states:

So you must stop telling lies. “You must always speak the truth to each other,” because we all belong to each other in the same body.​

Are you speaking of literal translation or literal interpretation? Asking me to give the meaning of 'literal' does not help in differentiating these two phrases.

'A literal translation is one in which you translate each word of the original work rather than giving the meaning of each expression or sentence using words that sound natural' (Collins Dictionary 2019. s.v. literal).

What is the literal translation of John 10:9-10?

What is the literal interpretation of John 10:9-10? 9 ἐγώ εἰμι ἡ θύρα· δι᾽ ἐμοῦ ἐάν τις εἰσέλθῃ, σωθήσεται καὶ εἰσελεύσεται καὶ ἐξελεύσεται καὶ νομὴν εὑρήσει. 10 ὁ κλέπτης οὐκ ἔρχεται εἰ μὴ ἵνα κλέψῃ καὶ θύσῃ καὶ ἀπολέσῃ· ἐγὼ ἦλθον ἵνα ζωὴν ἔχωσιν καὶ περισσὸν ἔχωσιν.

Oz
 
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Jay Ross

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One of the issues in Bible interpretation is our understanding of the word, "then" or "and then" used in scripture to connect the presented story together into a concise short story. Some people see it as an immediate occurrence of each portion of the presented story whereas others see that time may have passed between each segment of the story. Now in the account of David and Bathsheba recorded in 2 Samuel 11:1-12:25, our understanding of how long this story covers in time dictates how old David's and Bathsheba's son was when the Lord took him from them both.

From the context of the account in 2 Samuel, it provides no clues as to how many years may have passed between the beginning and the end of this story of the conception and death of their first son and the birth of Solomon. Many assume that the time span is relatively short and that their first child was quite young and still a "baby" when he died. However, from the information found in 1 Chronicles 3:1-9 the time span is possibly much longer and probably closer to eight to nine years as David and Bathsheba had another two sons born to them as recorded in 1 Chron 3:1-9, before Solomon was conceived and born after the death of their first son.

How we assume the story has unfolded if often dictated by how we fill in the silences found within the Bible.

We so often want to have the understanding before we have read all of the information and we do like to skip the sections of the bible where the genealogies of the various people mentioned in the bible is found.

Another example is how many generations of descendants of the sons of Jacob that went down to Egypt were born during the years that they were living in Egypt. Many will say that their were only four generation born in Egypt during this time period but the genealogy of the descendants of Ephraim tells us that he had ten descendant generation born to him during the 430 years that Israel lived in Egypt with the last mentioned descendant of Ephraim being Joshua mentioned in 1 Chron 7:20-27. Fortunately, the chronology of Ephraim's descendants is also found elsewhere in the bible to confirm this.

Our understanding of the bible comes down to how we interpret the scriptures and then spin our story.

Shalom
 

John Caldwell

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I read this awhile back and found it amusing:

“Give seventy translators an identical swatch of text and, unless divinely inspired, they will produce seventy different translations that accord with their diverse understandings of what the text means, and of the relative importance of its various features.” (Karen Emmerich)

I do not believe translators are divinely inspired (the "seventy" reference pointing to the LXX). I've spoken to some who have been involved in translating Scripture. What I learned was that none are typically satisfied with all of the word choices made. I guess that only emphasizes the need for prayer and study.
 
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OzSpen

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While each prophet has his own unique style, some things remain consistent or mostly consistent. If Heaven is consistent -- and I think it is -- then we should expect consistency in how words are used and how symbols are.

This article points to ...
7 Different Kinds of Death in the Bible

Once we begin to see that this is the definition of “dead” in Scripture, we can discern at least seven different kinds of death (or separations) in the Bible.

  1. There is spiritual death, where the spirit is separated or cut off from God, and so is ineffective or useless in helping the person connect with God and live as they should (cf. Gen 2:17).
  2. There is physical death, which is where the body is separated from the soul and the spirit (Heb 9:27; John 11:11-17). It is physical death that most people think of when they refer to “death.”
  3. Thirdly, there is eternal death, which is when a person is separated eternally from God (Rev 20:14; Matt 25:46).
  4. There is positional death, which occurs when believers die to sin as a result of undergoing death and resurrection through Jesus Christ (Rom 6:3-6; Gal 2:2).
  5. There is relational death, which occurs when we are separated from friendships and relationships as a result of sin (Luke 15:24; 1 Tim 5:6; Rev 3:2-3).
  6. Sixth, there is an operational death, which is when we are unable to function and operate for our intended purposes because we rely upon works of the flesh or refuse to act upon what we believe (Jas 2:14-26; Heb 6:1; 9:14).
  7. Finally, there is sexual death, which occurs when a person’s sexual organs are no longer able to function as they were intended (Rom 4:17-19).
There you have the one word, 'dead/death' with 7 different meanings.
 

OzSpen

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I read this awhile back and found it amusing:

“Give seventy translators an identical swatch of text and, unless divinely inspired, they will produce seventy different translations that accord with their diverse understandings of what the text means, and of the relative importance of its various features.” (Karen Emmerich)

I do not believe translators are divinely inspired (the "seventy" reference pointing to the LXX). I've spoken to some who have been involved in translating Scripture. What I learned was that none are typically satisfied with all of the word choices made. I guess that only emphasizes the need for prayer and study.

John,

When Don (D A) Carson spoke at Brisbane City Tabernacle Baptist Church I went to hear him. He's an excellent expositor. I knew he did the initial translation of one NT book (Book of Acts) for The New Living Translation and I asked him what he thought of the Translation. His response was: 'It's a bit too loose' (I think those were his words) but he was prepared to be involved in the translation.

Oz
 
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Giuliano

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This article points to ...
7 Different Kinds of Death in the Bible

Once we begin to see that this is the definition of “dead” in Scripture, we can discern at least seven different kinds of death (or separations) in the Bible.

  1. There is spiritual death, where the spirit is separated or cut off from God, and so is ineffective or useless in helping the person connect with God and live as they should (cf. Gen 2:17).
  2. There is physical death, which is where the body is separated from the soul and the spirit (Heb 9:27; John 11:11-17). It is physical death that most people think of when they refer to “death.”
  3. Thirdly, there is eternal death, which is when a person is separated eternally from God (Rev 20:14; Matt 25:46).
  4. There is positional death, which occurs when believers die to sin as a result of undergoing death and resurrection through Jesus Christ (Rom 6:3-6; Gal 2:2).
  5. There is relational death, which occurs when we are separated from friendships and relationships as a result of sin (Luke 15:24; 1 Tim 5:6; Rev 3:2-3).
  6. Sixth, there is an operational death, which is when we are unable to function and operate for our intended purposes because we rely upon works of the flesh or refuse to act upon what we believe (Jas 2:14-26; Heb 6:1; 9:14).
  7. Finally, there is sexual death, which occurs when a person’s sexual organs are no longer able to function as they were intended (Rom 4:17-19).
There you have the one word, 'dead/death' with 7 different meanings.
I see one thing about death: The ceasing of life in something that once was alive.
 

John Caldwell

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John,

When Don (D A) Carson spoke at Brisbane City Tabernacle Baptist Church I went to hear him. He's an excellent expositor. I knew he did the initial translation of one NT book (Book of Acts) for The New Living Translation and I asked him what he thought of the Translation. His response was: 'It's a bit too loose' (I think those were his words) but he was prepared to be involved in the translation.

Oz
In a way, that's the ministry. It is not about getting our way but of being faithful insofar as our part goes.
 
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