Interpretation Methods

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2019
7,784
3,150
113
76
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Those who have been born again have actually had all their sins cleaned and their guilt removed. They are new creatures in Christ with a new nature. That is the quickened spirit indwelt by the Holy Spirit. That nature cannot sin.

At the same time the old Adamic nature has not been eradicated, which means that the possibility of sin from this *flesh* nature has not been eradicated. Christians would in fact be sinlessly perfect if this nature had been totally eradicated -- removed completely.

So Paul explains this dual nature in Romans 7:21-23, and shows that there is internal warfare:

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
[the new nature]
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. [the old nature]

For the flesh lusteth [strives or wars] against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. (Gal 5:17)

At the same time, the old nature cannot have dominion over the Christian because the indwelling Holy Spirit is more powerful. But in order for that power to be manifested, the Christian must crucify or mortify or put to death the old nature. And that is done by walking in the Spirit.

And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. (Gal 5:24,25)

I know you must know by now that Romans 7 is about those under the law WITHOUT the Spirit, and chapter 8 is what a difference having the Spirit makes. Jesus took away our sin, but in Roman 7:13 they definitely still have their sinful nature. You just won't study the context of Romans 7 to have your eyes opened.

Galatians doesn't mean we can stay saved if we quench the Spirit, and go back into the flesh like a dog returning to his vomit. No, we are commanded to walk in the Spirit and stay there. If not, we will go to hell as we've apostatized against Christ and chosen to follow after Satan again.
 
Last edited:

Anthony D'Arienzo

Well-Known Member
Jan 3, 2019
2,585
2,084
113
70
georgia
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Anthony,

I don't know John Caldwell, apart from what he has posted in this thread.

Would you please refrain from engaging in accusations (lies, errors, deluded stalker, smug, rambling double talk, slander)? These are not words to edify people of God on this forum?

If he has committed any of these sins against you, please deal with them openly and in a Christ-like manner.

To accuse someone of not being in his 'right mind' and being asked to be restored to a right mind, is a real put down.

I encourage you to use this kind of language:

12 God has chosen you and made you his holy people. He loves you. So your new life should be like this: Show mercy to others. Be kind, humble, gentle, and patient. 13 Don’t be angry with each other, but forgive each other. If you feel someone has wronged you, forgive them. Forgive others because the Lord forgave you. 14 Together with these things, the most important part of your new life is to love each other. Love is what holds everything together in perfect unity. 15 Let the peace that Christ gives control your thinking. It is for peace that you were chosen to be together in one body. And always be thankful.

16 Let the teaching of Christ live inside you richly. Use all wisdom to teach and counsel each other. Sing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs with thankfulness in your hearts to God (Col 3:12-16 ERV).​

Blessings,
Oz
Hello Oz,
I know what you are saying.
That section of scripture is very strong.
In this case...it is unfortunately not accusations but truth.
 

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I know you must know by now that Romans 7 is about those under the law WITHOUT the Spirit, and chapter 8 is what a difference having the Spirit makes.
You know that that is TOTAL NONSENSE since I quoted from Galatians also. And 1 John confirms what has been posted. Obviously you have no interest in God's truth, just your own imagination.
 

VictoryinJesus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,581
7,857
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
We can't simply spiritualize away plain Bible truth. The land is literally the land, the earth is literally the earth, and the heart is metaphorically the heart (meaning the soul or the innermost being, not the organ that pumps blood).

Unless we accept Scripture in its plain literal senses, we will all be AT SEA.

Genesis 26:19 And Isaac's servants digged in the valley, and found there a well of springing water.
^ have you ever studied the names of the different wells there as others strove with them (Esek meaning contention) (Sitnah meaning hatred)..

Then the “Greater” John 4:11-14 The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water? [12] Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle? [13] Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: [14] But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

what do you call that? A figure of speech? I‘ve never been good with the definition of metaphors, or figures of speech. why reduce it when He said His words are Spirit. They are Life. (imo)when Jesus Christ said the above in John; He meant He was a “greater” literal well of living water springing up into everlasting life...greater than all the other wells of men. So yes...agree it is literal Land...a “greater” literal land. James 3:17-18 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. [18] And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

How often does God compare the earthly to heavenly to reveal a Spiritual truth? Yes...planting, sowing, reaping, plowing, ...earth...but also Heaven yielding and producing and gathering. Why disregard the greater revealed?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2019
7,784
3,150
113
76
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You know that that is TOTAL NONSENSE since I quoted from Galatians also. And 1 John confirms what has been posted. Obviously you have no interest in God's truth, just your own imagination.

You didn't even quote what I wrote about Galatians. You seem to think I ignored it.

Enoch, do yourself and your theology a favor and read Romans 7 in CONTEXT. Start with Romans 7:7 and read through Romans 8:9. That is enough context to understand what is as clear as day. You will find it is a contrast of Law vs Spirit, and sin vs freedom from sin. If you can only relate to Romans 7, then you are relating to those under the law who are still slaves to sin. Are you under the Law, or the law of the Spirit of life in Christ that has freed us from the law of sin and death. Romans 7's law IS the law of sin and death. 2 Corinthians 3:7-11 calls the law, the ministry of death. And it is being replaced by the ministry of the Spirit. Read both passages slowly a few times till it sinks in. I really pray you have an epiphany from the Spirit of Truth, and get over thinking Roman 7 is about Christians. It is actually the culmination of Paul's 7 chapter teaching on the law. 6 and 8 introduce Jesus and the Spirit. That 7 is about the Christian struggle is actually a denominational belief that is in gross error for hundreds of years. Context is the key to correct exegesis. Believe me, Spirit-filled Christians do not struggle like that. The problem is many are not taught to seek the power of the Spirit. It is real. But, unfortunately not everyone claiming Christ is born again of the Spirit, and Jesus may say to them, "I never knew you." Enoch, I care about you, and don't want that said to you, because that will only be true of those still in the throws of struggle. The law was our guard only till Jesus. Galatians 3

Good night, sweet brother!
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

OzSpen

Well-Known Member
Mar 30, 2015
3,728
795
113
Brisbane, Qld., Australia
spencer.gear.dyndns.org
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Hello Oz,
I know what you are saying.
That section of scripture is very strong.
In this case...it is unfortunately not accusations but truth.

Please take it easy in how you respond to people. What you said may have been the truth but I didn't find it stated in compassionate, Christ-like manner.

Do you know how to express truth with gentleness?
 

farouk

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2009
30,790
19,230
113
North America
Interpretation - hermeneutics - is certainly a vital area. It's all about seeing what the Bible really says, rather than what ppl might like to read into the Bible...
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

Well-Known Member
Jan 3, 2019
2,585
2,084
113
70
georgia
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Please take it easy in how you respond to people. What you said may have been the truth but I didn't find it stated in compassionate, Christ-like manner.

Do you know how to express truth with gentleness?
Oz....I do.
Let me say this to you.
What is happening here is shameful.
JonC hasbeen doing this for months.
It is hard for anyone to grasp how a professed Christian can do this.
He has done it with many others.
I am just vocal with it,trying to stop it.
If he iui s not stopped he will just keep going
 

Willie T

Heaven Sent
Staff member
Sep 14, 2017
5,869
7,426
113
St. Petersburg Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Oz,
Let's take your literal "interpretation" of that camel (or "rope" if you prefer) and see if there is not some "stretching" going on.
I think we can all agree that Jesus merely meant that someone devoted to their riches would have a difficult time coming to totally depend upon, and to trust the Lord for their provision. (thus, not entering into the kingdom)
But, no matter how you "interpret" the actual words written, no camel (or rope) is going to fit through the eye of a needle.
So, Jesus was speaking illustratively in metaphoric terms. And to try to grease it up and slide around, using the word, "interpretation" rather than "translation" is really NOT being literal about the words in front of you on the pages of the Bible.
To a person reading "literally" (which you seem to be trying to circumvent) Jesus said that it is impossible for rich people to get into Heaven. And it is by that sort of Fundamentalist that the accepted meaning is applied..... and you just got through saying that you read passages by the generally accepted way they are usually taken by most people. Are you excluding the "Literalist" Bible reader from that, since "literal" to him and all the other tens of thousands of members of related congregations has never had the slippery esoteric "interpretation" connotation you imply?
This whole thing is akin to claiming, "Well, the word, "virgin", to me is interpreted...…" (whatever you come up with)
We do not derive Jesus' intended meaning from just "interpreting" that single passage. We give it meaning because of what we know by reading many other verses throughout the Bible pertaining to the love of money...… so why try to play games with a technical variation you have dug up?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I didn't know that you thought this could be the fate of a born again child of God. Do you truly think the born again can die again?
CL is rather confused in her theology. But she does not want Bible truth either.
 

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
So, Jesus was speaking illustratively in metaphoric terms.
Of course. Do we need to labor this point? Reading Scripture in its plain literal sense includes the recognition of metaphors, but does not allow one to spiritualize away that which is plainly stated. Just like the description of the New Jerusalem (with which you have a problem).
 
  • Like
Reactions: OzSpen

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2019
7,784
3,150
113
76
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hi CL,

I didn't know that you thought this could be the fate of a born again child of God. Do you truly think the born again can die again?

Much love!

Yes, I do. There are enough warnings in the epistles, it would be foolish to think otherwise.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2019
7,784
3,150
113
76
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
CL is rather confused in her theology. But she does not want Bible truth either.

I look at all the verses of the epistles, and do not pick and choose, or take verses out of context. I've tried to help you, but you have itching ears, and choose smooth talking false teachers and would rather not hear the hard truth.

cc: @marks
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,156
21,420
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes, I do. There are enough warnings in the epistles, it would be foolish to think otherwise.
I find the opposite, that there are so many assurances of the permanence of what God has done for us. Just the same there are many warnings that we mustn't be fooling ourselves thinking we're right with God, born again, if we actually aren't.

Either way, we look at how we are living, whether we are loving God, loving others, trusting Him, as evidence of what is true for me.

Much love!
 

CharismaticLady

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2019
7,784
3,150
113
76
Tennessee
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I find the opposite, that there are so many assurances of the permanence of what God has done for us. Just the same there are many warnings that we mustn't be fooling ourselves thinking we're right with God, born again, if we actually aren't.

Either way, we look at how we are living, whether we are loving God, loving others, trusting Him, as evidence of what is true for me.

Much love!

Before I was born again, during 30 years of going to church, I never had an answer to prayer. After I was born again and was empowered by the Spirit to keep his commandments, and obey His voice, all my prayers have been answered. And, yes, there is a verse of assurance in 1 John 3:21-24 that I found recently, and noticed that the sign of assurance is answered prayer. This is totally the opposite of OSAS, where as Luther says, no sin can separate us from God. Baloney! That message of course attracts those with itching ears, who choose false teachers of that doctrine.

Without holiness, no man shall see God.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

OzSpen

Well-Known Member
Mar 30, 2015
3,728
795
113
Brisbane, Qld., Australia
spencer.gear.dyndns.org
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Oz,
Let's take your literal "interpretation" of that camel (or "rope" if you prefer) and see if there is not some "stretching" going on.
I think we can all agree that Jesus merely meant that someone devoted to their riches would have a difficult time coming to totally depend upon, and to trust the Lord for their provision. (thus, not entering into the kingdom)
But, no matter how you "interpret" the actual words written, no camel (or rope) is going to fit through the eye of a needle.
So, Jesus was speaking illustratively in metaphoric terms. And to try to grease it up and slide around, using the word, "interpretation" rather than "translation" is really NOT being literal about the words in front of you on the pages of the Bible.
To a person reading "literally" (which you seem to be trying to circumvent) Jesus said that it is impossible for rich people to get into Heaven. And it is by that sort of Fundamentalist that the accepted meaning is applied..... and you just got through saying that you read passages by the generally accepted way they are usually taken by most people. Are you excluding the "Literalist" Bible reader from that, since "literal" to him and all the other tens of thousands of members of related congregations has never had the slippery esoteric "interpretation" connotation you imply?
This whole thing is akin to claiming, "Well, the word, "virgin", to me is interpreted...…" (whatever you come up with)
We do not derive Jesus' intended meaning from just "interpreting" that single passage. We give it meaning because of what we know by reading many other verses throughout the Bible pertaining to the love of money...… so why try to play games with a technical variation you have dug up?

What 'stretching'? Are you speaking metaphorically or literally or allegorically or literally (including metaphors)?:rolleyes:o_O

I find you confused in your understanding of literal interpretation. I'm not playing games. I'm saying what literal interpretation means. It includes the use of figures of speech that are interpreted as figures of speech.
 
Last edited:

OzSpen

Well-Known Member
Mar 30, 2015
3,728
795
113
Brisbane, Qld., Australia
spencer.gear.dyndns.org
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Oz....I do.
Let me say this to you.
What is happening here is shameful.
JonC hasbeen doing this for months.
It is hard for anyone to grasp how a professed Christian can do this.
He has done it with many others.
I am just vocal with it,trying to stop it.
If he iui s not stopped he will just keep going

My point is still the same, Anthony. If you plan to move towards exposing false doctrine and reconciliation, I recommend you use compassionate mercy, which is what Jesus offers to you and me.