What Mormons Believe--according to a Former BYU Professor

[Giuliano]

Hmm, I think he would have said as much. "Now try to imagine that you are seated in heaven with Jesus...."

This is not what he said at all. He's pretty straightforward about it. God "has raised us up." He "has made us to sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus."

Ephesians 2:4-7--But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

I don't think our minds can necessarily grasp this, but I believe it is the way it is. I don't think we need to understand this fully. There's a lot that I don't understand fully, like salvation. I know what the Bible says about it, but I don't understand all that takes place within the human spirit and soul when we are born again....
.

If you believe it's the way it is, I wonder why can't your mind imagine it?

 

[Grailhunter]

You didn't answer my question. Do you believe that murderers cannot be forgiven and go to heaven?

Or are you saying that no one can go to heaven?

I am thinking that the discussion is about murderers and the like.
I believe, that as whole you will not be shoulder to shoulder with murderers in heaven.
Then again, that ultimate decision is up to Christ. That is why I do not believe in judging. I am not the judge.
I am telling you what the Bible specifically says about murderers.

Sorry, edited this

 

[Grailhunter]

I am thinking that the discussion is about murderers and the like.
I believe, that as whole you will not be shoulder to shoulder with murderers in heaven.
Then again, that ultimate decision is up to Christ. That is why I do not believe in judging. I am not the judge.
I am telling you what the Bible specifically says about murderers.

Sorry, edited this

So what happen to somebody like Paul who murdered?
Christ sacrificial death took us out of the system of sin and tally of the OT.
Behold the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world....there are others scriptures to this.
But we still have previous sins on our soul ....
This is where Baptism comes in. We are saved by faith....not going to hell.
In Baptism, the person that comes out of the water is a "new spiritual person" There is no spiritual memory of the old person or his or her sins or even that they existed.

Levels....I believe that after Christ died on the cross, he did not ascend to heaven at that point. I believe he went to Sheol to preach the Gospel to the Jews in Sheol and that was the paradise that Christ spoke of when he told the thief on the cross that, today you will be in paradise.

Levels in hell, levels in sheol, levels in heaven.

People can think that it is all cut and dry, nothing left for judgment, but I believe there is. Where you end up is up to Christ.

People call it salvation and sanctification. I call your life walk with Christ....and how that goes can determine your destination.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I'm still curious how things can be explained.

Prayer Warrior didn't quote from D&C, but the paraphrase seemed close to me, "And I'm talking about doctrines central to Mormonism, like the belief that God the Father was once as man (as human men are)." So what those D&C say?

Doctrine and Covenants 130:
22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.


Okay, so how Prayer Warrior put it wasn't an exact quote; but I would think what is in D&C would be official LDS doctrine. Is there an explanation for this teaching that God has a body of flesh and bones?

Sorry for my delay in responding to this: I've been out of town visiting family.

There's a few different subject here:

First, The Father having a glorified physical body like the Son's. This is official canonized LDS Christian belief, shown in the Doctrine and Covenants. It is an official belief, albeit not a super central one (that would be something like Christ, faith, discipleship, etc).

Second, the how this came to be is not specified in canonized LDS Christian doctrinal statements (LDS Christians readily acknowledge that there's many things about God and His wonders we don't know/understand right now). There are a few speculative statements that do exist (the "once a man" statement Prayer Warrior is referencing), but they are not remotely canonized, nor actively discussed in actual LDS Church services, and you'll find LDS folks with a wide variety of views on it all sitting on the same pew.

Does that help clarify?

 

[Mjh29]

Sorry for my delay in responding to this: I've been out of town visiting family.

There's a few different subject here:

First, The Father having a glorified physical body like the Son's. This is official canonized LDS Christian belief, shown in the Doctrine and Covenants. It is an official belief, albeit not a super central one (that would be something like Christ, faith, discipleship, etc).

Second, the how this came to be is not specified in canonized LDS Christian doctrinal statements (LDS Christians readily acknowledge that there's many things about God and His wonders we don't know/understand right now). There are a few speculative statements that do exist (the "once a man" statement Prayer Warrior is referencing), but they are not remotely canonized, nor actively discussed in actual LDS Church services, and you'll find LDS folks with a wide variety of views on it all sitting on the same pew.

Does that help clarify?

All I want to know is if God was really a man who ascended to Godhood.
Because the Mormon church holds to this belief, but I guess Mormons themselves don't know if this is true?

 

[Preacher4Truth]

All I want to know is if God was really a man who ascended to Godhood.
Because the Mormon church holds to this belief, but I guess Mormons themselves don't know if this is true?

Most Mormons don't know the teachings of their own group, and/or flat out deny what they know they believe. I've found this to be true through several sources. The Christ they preach isn't the Christ of Scripture. John 8:24 is solemn in its indictment, no one gets to make up their own Christ.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

All I want to know is if God was really a man who ascended to Godhood.

That's actually not a definitive statement at all for LDS Christians.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Most Mormons don't know the teachings of their own group, and/or flat out deny what they know they believe. I've found this to be true through several sources.

The above is an incredibly inaccurate and disrespectful statement.

 

[Mjh29]

That's actually not a definitive statement at all for LDS Christians.

Well, could you explain if your sect of LDS confesses this?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Well, could you explain if your sect of LDS confesses this?

Already addressed:

There are a few speculative statements that do exist (the "once a man" statement Prayer Warrior is referencing), but they are not remotely canonized, nor actively discussed in actual LDS Church services, and you'll find LDS folks with a wide variety of views on it all sitting on the same pew.

 

[Mjh29]

Already addressed:

So, does your congregation not have a confession of faith?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

So, does your congregation not have a confession of faith?

THE ARTICLES OF FAITHOF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

CHAPTER 1

1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.

3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankindmay be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reignpersonally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewedand receive its paradisiacal glory.

11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hopeall things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
Articles of Faith 1

 

[Mjh29]

THE ARTICLES OF FAITHOF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

CHAPTER 1

1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.

3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankindmay be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reignpersonally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewedand receive its paradisiacal glory.

11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hopeall things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
Articles of Faith 1

So, it has nothing about these core issues that many Orthodox Christians would clearly draw the line at?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

So, it has nothing about these core issues that many Orthodox Christians would clearly draw the line at?

Can you let me know which specific issues you'd like to talk about so I can talk about those directly?

 

[Mjh29]

Can you let me know which specific issues you'd like to talk about so I can talk about those directly?

I tried. Some of the major doctrines I have trouble with you don't seem to know the answer to.

For instance, I would like to know if you really believe that God was at one time just a man??

Because this is a view that at least some Mormons hold to, and it is heresy.
Not saying you hold to it... just saying

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I tried. Some of the major doctrines I have trouble with you don't seem to know the answer to.

For instance, I would like to know if you really believe that God was at one time just a man??

Because this is a view that at least some Mormons hold to, and it is heresy.
Not saying you hold to it... just saying

It's not in there.
It's not a core doctrinal belief.
It's not canonized.
Nor actively discussed in services at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

 

[Mjh29]

Becoming Like God

“Well, as God is, man may become. We believe in eternal progression. Very strongly.”

Can man really become a god?

I've decided to put my previous question on the backburner for now... we weren't really making any headway with it.

 

[Mjh29]

They seem to know exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Becoming Like God

“Well, as God is, man may become. We believe in eternal progression. Very strongly.”

Can man really become a god?

So this question is a different subject: about man becoming like God.

And the short answer to your question is: yes, through the power of Christ's atonement, God is able to redeem His children and they become joint-heirs with Christ.
For a longer answer, I would have actually refered you to the same essay your linked there.

 

[Mjh29]

So this question is a different subject: about man becoming like God.

And the short answer to your question is: yes, through the power of Christ's atonement, God is able to redeem His children and they become joint-heirs with Christ.
For a longer answer, I would have actually refered you to the same essay your linked there.

So men become gods?
But again, does it work in reverse; did GOD have to become a god himself?